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[tex66]

I came here a couple of months ago and posted about my situation with HRT and my intentions to get off of it. I'll write a quick rundown on the situation to refresh your memory and then tell you guys whats happening now.

I had gone to my doctor and complained about some ED troubles I was occasionally experiencing. He suggested that I might benefit from HRT and prescribed me Androgel. He did not do any bloodwork at all and did not explain anything to me about the HPTA or the fact that HRT will shut it down. Also, he told me nothing about the fact the shutting down HPTA will render a man infertile.

I used the Androgel for a few months and then he switched me to injections of 200mg per month for a few months. I think I did a total of 7 months of HRT. I did not learn that I had shut down my HPTA until I went to see my urologist and he explained it to me. He suggested that I get off the testosterone and allow my HPTA to recover. He had checked my test level 5 years earlier and said I didn't need HRT. I am now 40 years old, so my test level was checked when I was 35. At that time it was 277. I know that's low, but he said that any number of factors could have given a low reading that day.

Anyway, I got pretty worried about shutting down my HPTA and becoming infertile, so I quit the injections and went to see an endo for more advice. The endo was not much help. He just explained how I had shut down my HPTA and told me that it could takes many months to recover. Did not suggest any sort of PCT. The endo checked my test level at about 2 weeks after my last injection and it was at 349. He said this was probably just residual test from the injection and that the level would continue to fall in coming days and weeks.

So, I went back to my original doctor and told him that I wanted him to consult with Swale (Dr. Crisler) and find out if anything could be done to jump start my HPTA. Long process of getting this to happen, but I finally managed to get the consultation arranged.

Swale told my doc to order a bunch of blood work and then send him the results. The blood was drawn about 3 weeks ago and the results just came in. At the time the blood was drawn, it had been about a month or so since my last injection. Swale still has not received these results, so I haven't heard back from him yet, but my MD read me the results over the phone a few days ago. I didn't get them all written down, but here's what I did catch:

Total testosterone 467

Free and weakly bound testosterone 222

Free testosterone 102 (range of 34-194)

SHBG 22 (range of 7-50)

CBC normal

Hemoglobin 16.9

PSA .63

LH 4.5 (range of 1.5-9.5)

FSH 4.9 (range of 1.6-8)

According to these numbers, it would appear to me that my HPTA was beginning to function again, only one month after the last injection. For a couple of weeks, I felt completely like crap. No energy, fatigue, tiredness, burning eyes, and no libido at all. Then, I suddenly noticed that I was feeling a little better and my sex drive improved a bit. I have successfully had sex with my girlfriend several times in recent weeks. I certainly don't feel 100%, but much better than I was feeling for a while. My libido still seems to be lacking a bit, but I feel like its improving.

I know that my HRT was pretty low dosage, but from what I've learned, it doesn't take much to shut a person down. A total test level of 467 seems encouraging to me, but I don't want to get my hopes up without having more bloodwork done to verify that my levels are, in fact, coming back up. I have only had my test level checked three times in my life. When I was 35, it was 277. Then, 2 weeks after my last injection, it was 349. A month after last injection, it was up to 467. I'm wondering if I can expect it to continue to rise or if this might not be a good reading since it has not been long since I quit HRT. My testicles definitely feel much firmer than they did a couple of months ago and are noticeably larger as well. I think thats a good sign.

Swale should recieve my results any day now and I'll get a chance to talk to him about all this by telephone. I intend to request more blood work to be certain that levels are coming up. For now, I'm hoping that some of you guys with a lot of knowledge on this subject might be willing to take a shot at explaining to me what may be happening with my HPTA right now. Is this number 467 an indication that my HPTA is kicking back into action or could it just be residual test from the injection I had had a month earlier? I would appreciate any feedback you guys are able to provide.

[TOOBAD]

I wish I had more knowledge to share with you, however, I am learning a lot just from your experience! I read your original posts about a week ago and I am glad to hear you are feeling better. It sounds like you got the g/f back anyways!!! I wanted to ask if the only reason you came off of HRT is because you want to have another child? I am pretty much where you left off with things, I just switched from Testim (androgel) to the injections. In fact I get my first one today since my syringes are finally in stock! I am on 200mg/month which I think is low but they will increase it in two more months (hopefullly). I am 30 y.o. and I had a vasectomy about 4 years ago after my first child so I certainly do not want more kids! I know when my test levels are higher I feel so much better so I keep hoping that the endo will get my levels right soon. I am just wondering if you felt the same way? Are you sacrificing your quality of life to become fertile or did you just not like the HRT? Or did you just get scared of being on something that you will become dependant on for the rest of your life? Sometimes I start to freak out about it but like I said before, I want to add life to my years, not years to my life!

[Teabagger]

I think you made a good decision consulting with Swale. Good Luck.

ckurth6: Keep your andorgel on hand my friend. I don't understand why your endo is only giving you 200mg 1x/month. I don't want to throw water on your enthusiasim but that is not HRT protocol. I'm assuming it is depo test, which is either cyp or Test E. These tests reach peak levels in your blood around day 5 or 6 and begin to decline each day thereafter. Be very aware of how you feel and I would record it daily for the endo. You may find yourself on a rollercoaster of feeling great to feeling poorly. For comparison, the dosage for HRT test injections ranges usually from 70 to as high as 200mg per week depending on how the individual is responding. The dose is obviously important, but the frequency is just as important. Monthly is just not frequent enough. 2x per month is usually considered the minimum, with weekly being optimum. Something to be mindful of....Good luck and keep us posted on both of yours progress.

[ThrottleKing]

From what I've read and from what others have said 200 mg of test once a month is a horrible schedule. By day 10 you'll see the levels start to plummet.

I have split my injections up into every 3 days at 100 mg. I feel great with no sides. At 100 mg a week I didn't really feel great, just a little better. Next week I am having my level checked through an online testing site. I get the blood drawn locally and they mail it out to the lab.

But consider everyone is different so maybe a lower dose will work...but once a month is simply not correct for TRT because of the half life of the test.

Just my two cents...

[tex66]

ckurth6: I already have one child, but my current girlfriend is 29 years old and has no children. She wants to have a pregnancy in about a year or so from now. Therefore, I intend to maintain my fertility in case it turns out that I am to be the father of this child. When I started the HRT, I was unaware of the fact that HRT can make a man infertile. As soon as I found out, it was pretty easy to make the decision to get off of it.

When I was doing 200mg per month, I would feel pretty good for the first week to 10 days. After that, I would start feeling like crap! And it just got worse until I got another injection. The real bitch of it was that my doctor insisted that I had to come to his office for the injections. Once a month, I was waiting in the waiting room with a dozen or so pregnant women. Sometimes I would sit there for up to three hours to get in to get my injection! It was starting to piss me off! One Friday, I went for my injection and, after waiting for about 2 hours, I was told that the doctor had to leave for the hospital to go deliver a baby and was rescheduling the rest of the days appointments for Monday. I was already low on test and feeling like crap, anticipating an injection, and I just about lost it. I felt like breaking into the drug storage area and giving myself the injection. I made them call the doctor on his cell phone and get his approval to give me an injection.

With the hassle of going to the doc for injections, the rollercoaster effect of improper HRT, and the fact that I was becoming infertile, it just wasn't worth it to me to continue it. I'm feeling better now and am feeling fairly decent sex drive, so I think I'll just put the HRT off until a time in my life when I feel more need for it. And when that time comes, I will make certain to acquire a doctor who is an expert in this field. If nothing else, this experience has taught me a great deal about HRT. I knew absolutely nothing about it before, but now I feel as if I'm educated enough to make some good decisions if the time comes that I decide to get on HRT.

After the experience I had, if I were you, I would insist that your doctor get himself better educated on HRT or else find a better HRT doctor. DO NOT allow them to put you on 200mg per month. You'll feel okay for about a week or ten days out of every month and the rest of the time you'll feel like shit. I got Swale to consult with my doctor and you could do this too. Swale does telephone consultations with doctors for $200. You just go to his website, fill out the paperwork and fax it in with your $200 payment. Then he will talk to your doctor on the phone, order bloodwork and then advise your doctor on how to administer HRT. I'm not seeking his advice on starting HRT; I'm just getting him to talk to my doctor about getting me off of it. I was kinda hoping that he would prescribe me some sort of PCT to help jumpstart my HPTA, but I think my body has already kicked back into action without any PCT, so I may not need to do anything at all. I'll post again after I find out what he has to say. Good luck!

[TOOBAD]

Wow, your doctor really had you messed up. I went to my endo and I give myself weekly injections. Right now I am doing 50mg/wk which I know will not be enough, however, he wants to gradually get my levels to where they need to be. I am just hoping that he doesn't stop raising the dosage just because my levels barely reach the minimum range!!! I know that is not going to make me feel better, in fact, I want to be near the upper end of the "normal level" range. I hope he cooperates with me on this!!!

I gave myself my first injection today, I was a little nervous but I did good! The nurse walked me through it so I now I am on my own. I wanted to start a test/deca/dbol cycle with a friend of mine but I am going to put that on hold for a while. I am doing a 4 week cycle of whinny but that should not effect my blood work when I go back in two months. The winstrol at 20mg ed gives me some good gains at the gym and I don't really have to worry about PCT because I am probably going to be on HRT for the rest of my life. Does anyone have any comments about cycling while on HRT???

I do have one more question, there are a lot of reasons why you should be on HRT if you have low levels, but what (if any) are the reasons for not being on it. Are you more likely to have heart problems or liver failure? My endo said if you levels are low you will more likely have health problems so is there a chance I will be in better health as I get older?

[tex66]

Okay, now I get it! You're doing 200mg per month, but at 50mg per week. I thought your doctor was trying to do the same thing that they did to me and put you on a monthly injection of 200mg. At 50mg per week, you should keep a much more steady level than what I was getting with a once a month injection. From what I've read, 50mg per week does seem a bit low. I think most people are getting 100mg per week. Perhaps he's going to increase the dosage after bloodwork? And. yes, I've read that HRT can improve your health and minimize effects of aging. From what I understand, it is a fairly simple procedure to get you tuned up to where you keep pretty steady levels at the upper end of normal range. Good luck with that!

Right now, I'm really interested in monitoring my test levels over time. I've only had it checked three times in my life and most most recent lab work showed the highest level yet at 467. I know that test levels fluctuate at different times of day and can be effected by things like stress, sleep deprivation, nutrition, alcohol consumption, etc. I would like to get monthly test levels and try to get a good idea of where I really am.

When I went to the endo back in March, he wrote me orders to have bloodwork done on a monthly basis for the next 12 months. Then, I went and hired Swale to consult with my doctor and now my doc says I should just stick with Swale's recommendations and not follow through with the endo. I would like to have the monthly lab results, but I'm afraid that too many doctors in the mix might send up a red flag with my insurance company and then they won't want to pay for all of this. If Swale doesn't order more blood work next week, I will simply go to the lab with my orders from the endo and get it done anyway. I really want to know what my levels are.