HRT(TRT) and HCG?

[zaggahamma]

Sup....Wondering if boys can be saved if on TRT for life. Doc said TRT will make me infertile...he said we could go another route (including another doc) if I wanted to make more youngins....think he was talking about HCG....

My ? is can I take both? I've got 4 kids already, but you never know....my dad was 48 when I was born....just wondering DO I HAVE TO THROW IN THE TOWEL?

BTW, I got on TRT already ('round 5 weeks already) after 2 consec. low test levels of 275, 298. After 14 days on 5mg androgel, my total test level was 140?

The research I did on this site on HCG is saying HCG is meant to cycle, so I'm not sure what boat I'm in. Any FB is appreciated.

Thanks

[eisenmench]

I have read that HCG max dose is 500iu at one time. 250iu two days before and 1 day before TRT shot is also advised. I called my clinic and they said 1000iu every three days until the 10ml vial is used up. With one 1000iu shot the day before TRT shot the other midway between. SO is there any other good answers?

[zaggahamma]

thanks for chiming in newcomer and welcome....any other fb from vets? thanks in advance

[znak]

thanks for chiming in newcomer and welcome....any other fb from vets? thanks in advance

Actually a lot of anti-aging clinics use hcg to kind of "reset the clock". At the end of a cycle, you inject 1000 mcg ed for ten days. Your natural test has then kicked in (you are not at 100% for natty, but you are producing.)

The issue then is if you want to keep your natty test going for a while, you are going to have to take a hit and stay natty for a while before going back on.

You want to keep all your endocrine feed back loops working. Test shuts you down, hcg starts you back up, you stay on your own a while (month, two), then cycle again.

Problem with this (based on personal experience) is that you really start missing decent test levels. Good news is that you are still producing swimmers.

Your choice.

ps- pay particular attention to your estrogen levels, if they get out of whack you will be like a rag doll... low test and listless.

[zaggahamma]

so znak...you kind of cycle your TRT instead of every week? and thanks a million for the FB....I was beginning to think the thread was dead.

[Spyke]

I am becoming a patient of Dr XXXXX and I should know more on the subject after meeting him. But from what I understand, he has his guys take hcg the day before and the day of your weekly test injections. Nothing is cycled, it is done forever.

He is one of the top hrt docs in the world and pretty much wrote the book on all hcg. Like I said, I should know more after meeting with him. I will let you know what he says.

[zaggahamma]

I understand the lifetime part....it's just that I do the gel every day....so I'm wondering when/ how often I would take the HCG to keep from shooting blanks forever. I'll probably be on inject soon....so I'll look for your update spyke...thanks

[eisenmench]

Hey Spyke keep us up on all info I know of the DR.'s rep and value his advice. I had a question about his HCG regimine. I found that if I take 250iu 1 and 2 days before the TRT my 10ml vial will expire long before I use it up.

[znak]

so znak...you kind of cycle your TRT instead of every week? and thanks a million for the FB....I was beginning to think the thread was dead.

I am 50. My wife (third) may want a child. I cycle my TRT using hcg to restart the system. I also use hgh and igf-1 to keep my test levels up when I am not on test.

Typically, I will use test for four months (i cheat and go higher than the 200 mg ew), then do standard PCT (clomid therapy) and then use hcg. Get my blood checked. When I start dragging tail, I cycle back on to test.

I have checked and I am making swimmers when I am off and after I have done hcg.

Problem with hcg is that it will desensitize you and you don't want to use it too often.

[zaggahamma]

sounds like we can help each other here.....thanks for keeping post alive. thanks

[The Baron]

I'm 47 and not interested in making any more little Barons. However, I like to keep the old huevos nice and plump and healthy in case for some reason or another I ever have to stop hrt. I want to at least be able to recover my pre-hrt test production... a little is better than none at all. So periodically, I do a jab of 500iu, never more often than every three days. Keeps the boys nice and full, and actually I really feel the difference. I think there are other factors involved besides just testosterone, that hcg helps to address. This is sort of just intuitive and not very objective, certainly not scientific, but that's the way it seems to me.

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[zaggahamma]

Plump Is Good ... Thanks Man....how Long U Been On Hrt And What Kind....thanks Again

[The Baron]

Plump Is Good ... Thanks Man....how Long U Been On Hrt And What Kind....thanks Again

Going on two years now. Currently just test cyp and hcg. I was first acquainted with AAS through bodybuilding, which I started getting into about 8 years ago, and so my HRT dosages are almost bodybuilding cycles except I only go off for a few weeks, every 6 months or so. At first I was basically just doing a long cycle... a rather involved stack. Truthfully, I really don't have the time or dedication to get any bigger than I am, so really high doses are kind of just wasted on me, and so I have cut back considerably. I currently run 700mg/week, and I am thinking about reducing this to 500. I am gyno prone, and at current levels, I have to keep nolva and letro on hand for dealing with flare-ups. I am thinking 500mg will still maintain me quite well, and reduce my dependance on anti-estrogens and AIs. I really don't see myself going below 400 or 500mg/week, though. It is silly to settle for test levels that are "normal for my age", when I can have test levels normal for a teenager just as easily. I feel great and look great, even though I currently only train about an hour a week and sometimes eat a bit of really crappy food. Should I happen to win the lottery, I might look into a unit or two of GH every day when I get a bit older, but I really don't seem to need it yet. Skin is still in good shape, no severe problems with belly fat, and hey, I just look and feel pretty darn good. Last GF was 28. The one before that was 19, the one before that was 18, and the one before that was 19. Young chicks are suitably impressed and I pretty much get what I need, if not always what I want. Full time hrt is the best thing that has ever happened to me.

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NO PMs for SOURCES!
NO PMs for questions that should be asked on the board!
NO "Thank You" PMs, please.
PMs are for personal or sensitive questions or information, or for stuff that is not allowed to be posted on the board.
Inappropriate PMs will not be read or acknowledged. Repeated reporters will be offended.
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[zaggahamma]

Inspiring and G4U!
Yeh, too bad GH is so high...maybe it will come down by the time you approach your twilight years...but it sounds like you've already found your fountain of youth...actually several fountains...HA!
Thanks a bunch again!

[zaggahamma]

Been on TRT for 2 months so far....when will it be too late to save swimmers...can it become irreversible completely at some time?

[Ufa]

I think ZNAK has the right solution. TRT clinics will advise you to stay on and
never take a break. (are they self-serving)? I think the more conservative
approach would be what ZNAK does. Cycle off TRT. Find out where you
natural blood and hormone levels are. Take a couple of months and let
your cholesterol levels get back in line.

I would make a possible exception for those with ED.

Some might argue that you should not be on TRT unless you have ED. We
get arguments both ways from people that strictly construe the terms. I
am more liberal and think that for us older folks (fifty (+) or (-) a few years
that a light cycle can increase our immune system, get rid of body fat.
Increase metabolism, increase our bone density and let us live longer and
healthier instead of waiting until we fall apart to do anything about it.

[Teabagger]

Been on TRT for 2 months so far....when will it be too late to save swimmers...can it become irreversible completely at some time?

You've been on TRT for 8 weeks so far. People here will cycle for BB purposes 10,12,16 weeks at a time, do pct, and not be infertile. I would say it is certainly not too late. Each persons endocrine system is different, in that how it responds to certain stimulus, so if you are really worried the only way to be sure is to cycle your trt. I remember a trt clinic I was at when I first started trt and they advised to stop trt every 6 months for 1 to 2 months if you wanted to remain fertile. Have a fertility test run now, then when you're off for 1 to 2 months have another test done. Hope this helps.

[zaggahamma]

thanks...and that reminds me....i know i was going to check for prostate levels since being on but cholesterol can go up to? I guess I'll try to get that added to my next set of tests...cholesterol has never been a prob...low lds and pretty hi hdl...thanks for the heads up

[zaggahamma]

You've been on TRT for 8 weeks so far. People here will cycle for BB purposes 10,12,16 weeks at a time, do pct, and not be infertile. I would say it is certainly not too late. Each persons endocrine system is different, in that how it responds to certain stimulus, so if you are really worried the only way to be sure is to cycle your trt. I remember a trt clinic I was at when I first started trt and they advised to stop trt every 6 months for 1 to 2 months if you wanted to remain fertile. Have a fertility test run now, then when you're off for 1 to 2 months have another test done. Hope this helps.

yes..and thanks...do urologists run fertility tests...how does that work...jack in a cup? if low...hcg helps usually?

[Teabagger]

yes..and thanks...do urologists run fertility tests...how does that work...jack in a cup? if low...hcg helps usually?

Yes your uro should be able to run the test, as well maybe even your GP. All you do is spank the monkey, blow it in a cup, and hand it back to the cute nurse with a smile and glazed over eyes. All they do is look at it under a microscope and look for the little buggers. And yes hcg should help stimulate your testes.

[zaggahamma]

thanks again

[balin]

My Dr has had people on TRT using hcg and there wives have gotten pregnent while on HRT. So have some pro bodybuilders. Yes They will need a "sample" to check what your sperm count is and how active they are.

[zaggahamma]

really good to know and thanks...hcg come with very many sides? so far trt been good to me

[balin]

I have had no sides other then feeling better since I started using it. It can raise estrogen but blood test will show that. Even with hcg my E levels are at the bottom of the scale. My Dr specializes in HRT and flat out states that proper T replacment will not make a man sterile.

[znak]

I have had no sides other then feeling better since I started using it. It can raise estrogen but blood test will show that. Even with hcg my E levels are at the bottom of the scale. My Dr specializes in HRT and flat out states that proper T replacment will not make a man sterile.

Define "proper T replacement". If it included time off, he will be right for 90% of males.

Estrogen raises as a function of test. You are probably taking a very low dose of test.

Estrogen needs to be monitored very carefully. Many TRT/HRT clinics do not do this. Good that you are checking your level.

[RONINASAUNA]

I believe Dr Crisler has a saying............


"What do you call a man on TRT that thinks it's birth control................DADDY"

[balin]

[QUOTE=znak]Define "proper T replacement". If it included time off, he will be right for 90% of males.

I am not trying to insult any one. I am just repeating what my DR'd opiion is. And as he has had hundreds of patients on HRT. I defer to him as he most surely knows more then me. None of his patients take any time off as haveing your T levels drop to where you feel bad and may even be unhealthy.

Estrogen raises as a function of test. You are probably taking a very low dose of test.

Yes I am just on T replacement, so I only take 100mg/week. Along with 250iu's of hcg 2-3 times a week. And my E2 levels come out at around 21 with 20-50 being normal.

[eisenmench]

Balin I can only find HCG in 10,000iu vials; and using 250iu 2-3 x's a week the expiration date on the hcg after being reconstituted has passed with plenty of HCG left. How do you keep using small doses and what size vial do you buy.

[The Baron]

This can indeed be perplexing. I used to get 5000iu kits. My clinic sent me twice as many 2500iu kits once... I was, of course, delighted. I asked for the same thing last order, and they sent 10k kits, but the same number as if I had ordered 2500iu kits. I ended up tossing a lot of leftovers, but hey, I didn't pay for what I wasted, after all. Anyway, 2500iu kits can be had. They work out beautifully for someone wanting a fairly low dose, i.e. 250iu E3D. That works out to 10 shots, and 30 days. You can keep reconstituted hcg in the fridge for up to 60 days, so it is all used up in half the shelf life.

With a 10k kit, it is nice to have someone to share with. When running a low dose, you will be tossing half of it. There is a definite breakdown after a few weeks. You will see the formerly clear stuff begin to get cloudy and you will see clumpy little particles. I am not sure how that relates to any risks, or how it relates to deterioration in terms of potency, but when it starts to look like that, I toss it. I figure if it looks bad, maybe it is bad, and there is plenty more where that came from.

[Ufa]

BARRON is't always a pleasure to read your well thoght out and well worded posts. Just wondering how long you have been using HCG and if there are
and long term determental effects. I am mainly talking of continous use.

I feel HCG is necessary when coming off a cycle or during an intermittent
pause in HRT. For those of us that augment with other aas.

Only wonder about continous low dose.

[balin]

Balin I can only find HCG in 10,000iu vials; and using 250iu 2-3 x's a week the expiration date on the hcg after being reconstituted has passed with plenty of HCG left. How do you keep using small doses and what size vial do you buy.

I just use it till it is gone mostly and have not noticed it diminshing in potency. I get the 10,000 iu vial. but they only cost like $45 so many of the guys I know just use it for 2 months thaen start a new vial.

[The Baron]

BARRON is't always a pleasure to read your well thoght out and well worded posts. Just wondering how long you have been using HCG and if there are
and long term determental effects. I am mainly talking of continous use.

I feel HCG is necessary when coming off a cycle or during an intermittent
pause in HRT. For those of us that augment with other aas.

Only wonder about continous low dose.

I have been using it a couple of years, but not really continuously the whole time. I have been quite fond of this substance since discovering it for myself.

Apparently, high doses for long periods of time can de-sensitize the boys, so that LH from the pituitary no longer has as telling an effect as it normally does. It used to be in vogue to shoot three or four large doses, in the 3000 to 5000 iu range, at the end of the cycle. You will find a lot of testimonials right here on this board that low doses over the course of the cycle work just as well, and plenty of knowledgeable folks will tell you that this is safer than the mega-doses at the end of the cycle.

I prefer to run hcg DURING the cycle, and DURING hrt, rather than when going off. This keeps the little fellows nice and full all the time. In other words, preventing shrinkage instead of curing it. Shrinkage is of course related to ability to produce testosterone or sperm... a sign of the wider problem of atrophy, and not just a cosmetic thing. Of course the old school way still has its proponents, and I have never heard any first-hand accounts of any disastrous outcomes.

[bringndaheat]

when the left over HCG is about to go out of date do some of you throw it away?? Or would it be wise to go ahead and give yourself a 1000iu shot. I currently take 250iu's the day before my test shot and the day of....