Test Shots.....for how long???

[gritt]

I have been on Test Cyp shots (1 x every two weeks....400mgs) for about 6 months now. I have been working out religiously and have greatly altered my diet.

How long does one typically stay on a test regimen? i used to do teh gel but it did nothing for my test levels and I got down to 128....so I went to the shots.

I have to go in next week to draw blood and evaluate but my doc thinks that this coudl be somthing that may last for years to come. I am almost 40.

Is long term test use safe?

I do feel a heck of a lot better and not depressed and my libid is picking up.
Has anyone done test therapy for years at a time?

[bringndaheat]

I would try and do 200mgs every week to keep your blood levels more even!

[bringndaheat]

BTW many people in this world are on for life..... But who knows if you come off for a few weeks...... maybe your natural test levels will kick back in! Stranger things have happned

[vermin]

It is anyone's guess, but you're probably a lifer. Something made the test drop that much, and unless you've found it and eliminated it, well....

And I would have thought that ew was more typical for cyp.

[zaggahamma]

Welcome.
It is so interesting how different doc's are all over the board with the doses...that's the first one i saw starting at 400mg at one time...sounds like a good dose for 2 weeks, but most say that splitting it up would be better since your blood levels spike in the first several days, then you'll have a decline for the rest of those 2 weeks. I'm doin approximately the same dose, but split it up even to 2 times a week.
As far as safety, it looks like you are monitoring you blood work..I'm sure your doc will monitor prostate(psa),etc. levels as well as your testosterone levels .
I'm 37 and had low test levels before starting gel (3 months ago) then switched to shots last week and for me it looks like a "HRT" situation meaning replacing testosterone for life. Most guys in this forum are on a set dose for that same length of time. Hope this helps.
You've been on for 6 months already and speak of symptoms improving, have you had any side effects, concerns negatively? I was also curious as to how many times and what were your levels before starting this dose and any clue at all to the decline in your nat production. Any gear use in the past, if you don't mind me asking.
Keep us posted

[bringndaheat]

I agree with jpkman, you should split that up and keep us posted.

[Spyke]

I gotta agree. 400mg every 2 weeks seems wierd....I would do 200mg per week to keep levels even. Also, talk to the dr about adding some hcg to your program. It will keep your balls from shrinking and give you a little bump in test levels as well.

As far as long term effects, as long as you keep your levels in the normal range, there should be little or no negative sides. I also tend to think that us young guys on hrt for life may even have an advantage. I mean when I am in my 40's, 50's and beyond my levels will still be close to that of an 19 year old and the rest of the guys will struggle as theirs is dropping lower each year.

Not to sound like a broken record here but REAL HRT IS FOR LIFE IN MOST CASES! Sounds like you are in the same boat as me!

[Mobligator]

I was on T. for 13 years, started out with 300mg every 3 wks but cut that down to 200mg every 2 wks. My Endo told me 100 mg a wk. was the normal maintenance dosage. When I first started my T. level was 246 ng/dl and the normal range was 300-1000 ng/dl for my age. The range changes as you get older (gets lower). I was tested every 6 months and my blood level stayed around 500-600 ng/dl but sometimes I cheated and took more than 100mg per wk. Several times I jacked it up to 200mg per week and my level went up to 1100 ng/dl once but I didn't notice any difference in my strength or libido. You only have so many Androgen Receptors and once you saturate them with androgen the rest is wasted. Unfortunately I had to go off T. entirely when I was diagnosed with prostate cancer in 2001. Be sure to have your PSA checked at least once a year if you're on any kind of steroids . A normal PSA range is 0-4 but it can be as high as 5 if you have an enlarged prostate. If your PSA ever doubles, even if its below 4, it could indicate a problem.

[zaggahamma]

I was on T. for 13 years, started out with 300mg every 3 wks but cut that down to 200mg every 2 wks. My Endo told me 100 mg a wk. was the normal maintenance dosage. When I first started my T. level was 246 ng/dl and the normal range was 300-1000 ng/dl for my age. The range changes as you get older (gets lower). I was tested every 6 months and my blood level stayed around 500-600 ng/dl but sometimes I cheated and took more than 100mg per wk. Several times I jacked it up to 200mg per week and my level went up to 1100 ng/dl once but I didn't notice any difference in my strength or libido. You only have so many Androgen Receptors and once you saturate them with androgen the rest is wasted. Unfortunately I had to go off T. entirely when I was diagnosed with prostate cancer in 2001. Be sure to have your PSA checked at least once a year if you're on any kind of steroids. A normal PSA range is 0-4 but it can be as high as 5 if you have an enlarged prostate. If your PSA ever doubles, even if its below 4, it could indicate a problem.

Thanks for adding that VERY important information. I just started HRT and URO already felt something on my prostate that needs further investgation even though b4 starting, ENDO did a quickie check and said my boy was smooth and small and PSA level was under one....my big day is tommorrow...i'm nervous as shiat as you can imagine....How is your condition as of today....What are the chances of beating that kind of mother nature cruelty and also, how old were you when diagnosed and was there a stage of the cancer...Thanks again

[Mobligator]

Thanks for adding that VERY important information. I just started HRT and URO already felt something on my prostate that needs further investgation even though b4 starting, ENDO did a quickie check and said my boy was smooth and small and PSA level was under one....my big day is tommorrow...i'm nervous as shiat as you can imagine....How is your condition as of today....What are the chances of beating that kind of mother nature cruelty and also, how old were you when diagnosed and was there a stage of the cancer...Thanks again
__________________________________________________ _______________

If your PSA was under (< 1) you are in good shape. Normal range is 0-4. Don't put too much faith in the digital (finger) exam, they can only feel about one third of your prostate that way. Right now the PSA is the best diagnostic tool for detecting PCa. There are stages of PCa but the PSA and the Gleason Score are the main predictors of how agressive the cancer is. My PSA was 12.7 but went down to 9.3 after taking some antibiotics , still way too high. My gleason score was 6, which is determined by the Pathologist who examines a biopsy taken from the portion of the prostate that contains cancer. I was 68 year old. But too young to die. I went to a clinic in Atlanta, GA called RCOG, Radiotheraphy Clinics of Georgia, one of the best in the world. They did a radioactive seeding first followed up by 7 weeks of external radiation. Their cure rates are the highest in the world, 96% for men who had PSA's of 4.0 or less, 90% for men with 4.1 - 10.0 (the group I was in). So far, after four years my PSA is 0.03. They want you to have at least a 0.2 for the rest of your life to show cure. Also I pray alot!

[zaggahamma]

Thanks for adding that VERY important information. I just started HRT and URO already felt something on my prostate that needs further investgation even though b4 starting, ENDO did a quickie check and said my boy was smooth and small and PSA level was under one....my big day is tommorrow...i'm nervous as shiat as you can imagine....How is your condition as of today....What are the chances of beating that kind of mother nature cruelty and also, how old were you when diagnosed and was there a stage of the cancer...Thanks again
__________________________________________________ _______________

If your PSA was under (< 1) you are in good shape. Normal range is 0-4. Don't put too much faith in the digital (finger) exam, they can only feel about one third of your prostate that way. Right now the PSA is the best diagnostic tool for detecting PCa. There are stages of PCa but the PSA and the Gleason Score are the main predictors of how agressive the cancer is. My PSA was 12.7 but went down to 9.3 after taking some antibiotics , still way too high. My gleason score was 6, which is determined by the Pathologist who examines a biopsy taken from the portion of the prostate that contains cancer. I was 68 year old. But too young to die. I went to a clinic in Atlanta, GA called RCOG, Radiotheraphy Clinics of Georgia, one of the best in the world. They did a radioactive seeding first followed up by 7 weeks of external radiation. Their cure rates are the highest in the world, 96% for men who had PSA's of 4.0 or less, 90% for men with 4.1 - 10.0 (the group I was in). So far, after four years my PSA is 0.03. They want you to have at least a 0.2 for the rest of your life to show cure. Also I pray alot!

Thanks again...Well, my PSA was less than one, yes (.3) but BEFORE I started HRT...the endo B4 my HRT that did the DRE just gave me a quickie and cleared me...But I'm schedule for a ultrasound/biopsy TOMMORROW...because another DRE from my URO (he felt "something")(could be calcification) He had me do more blood work...so PSA is probably on that work...I know it was a full metabolic....can't remember if PSA was on it, but are you saying if PSA is still Low, I shouldn't even alow the biopsy?

Really thanks

[vermin]

I'd ask them what's up - I have known several dudes who have gone through some/all of this (including finding cancer and getting the pellets) - but none had a biopsy before getting a bad PSA. I do know that this is a rapidly changing area of medicine, so maybe they are re-ordering some things, but I was under the impression that a biopsy is not necessarily without risk.

[zaggahamma]

the only risk they are informing me of is infection...i guess that can be worse that it sounds...and i don't want to do anything that drastic w/o necessity, either. I even thought "hey what if this guy is ordering an expensive procedure just to make $$$$$" but in the back of my head...when the endo checked me...it was so quick...i could hardly believe she was doing anything in there....
bump for any other opinions on biopsy with out bad PSA...thanks

[vermin]

I have heard that with the new MIS techniques available, some docs are now just saying "take it out". I'd ask if the risks for that are any higher than for the biopsy, and what any other downside could be. I think I'd prefer to take that risk than face life without HRT. Just my $.02, since these are very personal decisions....

[zaggahamma]

I have heard that with the new MIS techniques available, some docs are now just saying "take it out". I'd ask if the risks for that are any higher than for the biopsy, and what any other downside could be. I think I'd prefer to take that risk than face life without HRT. Just my $.02, since these are very personal decisions....

You're saying they remove the prostate? What would be the ramifications of this procedure...shooting blanks or worse? I should be more knowledgabe since I am facing a biopsy, but? Man, I'm hoping it is just calcification.

[vermin]

I would ask that if I were you - but I have been told that some docs are now treating it like tonsils or the appendix - you don't really need it and it can only cause trouble. I think with the older surgical techniques impotence was a real complication, but supposedly they have that beat with the minimally invasive stuff.

This is mostly second-hand from older relatives, in-laws and such who have "paved the trail", so to speak. Oh, and my father in law was sick enough (with other stuff) that they then could not operate, so maybe better to handle things when there's nothing else to worry about?

Anyway I don't know if this is helping you, but it sure is solidifying my thinking should I encouter the issue!

[zaggahamma]

Actually, you are being utmost helpful and none better than experiences from those you know best. REALLY APPRECIATED.
My wife thinks I have nothing to worry about(cuz I'm 37)....even the doc didn't seem to concerned, but WTF the biopsy?
I did find out from a search on the internet that removal of the prostate is a possible treatment and it seems that the only consequence is just that (dry orgasms).
I wasn't so scared this last week until tonight cuz tommorrow the biopsy is scheduled.
Say a prayer 4 me
thanks again

[Spyke]

Doctors tend to do a ton of ass covering these days. Think about it, even if the guy knows that the odds of you having a problem are 1 in 30000 (good odds) he doesnt want to take the chance of you being that freak case (lawsuit), so he orders more tests to cover his ass and makes enough $$$ off you to take that trip to Hawaii.

See what I mean?

[vermin]

I am sure your wife - and Spyke - are right. Good luck and soon it will all be behind you....

[zaggahamma]

thanks/thanks
maybe i can sleep now
i'll keep the post real

[Mobligator]

If one is diagnosed with prostate cancer he is faced with an extremely important decision, i.e. which treatment to take. That has to be a personal decision and one should learn all they can about each type of treatment before making a decision and there are several to choose from. Usually there is no rush to be treated since PCa is a slow growing cancer. There are definitely side effects to all type of treatement. As a rule the younger the man is the fewer side effects he'll have, e.g. impotency, incontinence, ejaculation problems, just a few of the worst ones. All of the treatments available have improved vastly in the last five-six years. Radical Prostatectomy, (removing the prostate) is the most invasive of all of the procedures and before having that done you must make certain the surgeon you choose has plenty of experience with a good track record of success. They can do a nerve sparing surgery, a process developed by Dr. Walsh at Johns Hopkins in Baltimore, MD where the nerves that affect erection are left intact but with an "inexperienced" MD, one slip and you can be left with a limp noodle for the rest of your life. They also have a machine now that can remove the prostate arthroscopically but here again the MD doing the procedure has to be very experienced. Most of the newest treatments can be found on the internet by doing a Google search.

[Mobligator]

jpkman, One thing I forgot to tell you about the PSA. There is also what they call a "Free" PSA. This will tell you if the rise in your PSA is from cancer or from someother cause. An enlarged prostate or an infection will cause a rise in the PSA. I wouldn't have a biopsy performed before having a Free PSA and/or unless my PSA was very high, e.g. 6 or 7. My PSA was running around 5 to 6 for over 6-7 years and would occasionally just up to 7 or 8 when I had an infection. A good antibiotic like Cipro will bring it down if it's caused by an infection. Don't go on the advice of just any MD, go see a Urologist. Also FYI or for anyone else who might be thinking about having a biopsy, make sure the Doc puts you to sleep (intravenously) before doing the procedure. Some antiquated MD's don't and it is painful if you aren't under anesthesia

[gritt]

Great info, everyone. It good to know there are so many of us in the same boat. I have had no side affects to note thus far so I am happy with where this is going.
Good advice on going down to 200 every week as opposed to 400 bi-weekly. The down side is I pay $15 co-pay for every time I go in and get a shot. My wife has been to nervous to shoot me so that mmakes me hesitant to gie her a needle. Maybe this will persuade her. 60 bucks a month just for shots is a waste.

[zaggahamma]

Gritt...it's easy to self administer and I hate driving in traffic unecessarily and my copays are going up in a couple of months...maybe they will let you self administer
Mobligator...thanks again...i didn't see ne thing about the psa free test in my reading last night...maybe it's new? i only went to a couple of sites..there was so much info just on those sites and i learned a lot especially about the types of treatments that you are speaking of....i'm gonna call my uro now and see what my new psa was and about the psa free test...thanks

[Spyke]

Great info, everyone. It good to know there are so many of us in the same boat. I have had no side affects to note thus far so I am happy with where this is going.
Good advice on going down to 200 every week as opposed to 400 bi-weekly. The down side is I pay $15 co-pay for every time I go in and get a shot. My wife has been to nervous to shoot me so that mmakes me hesitant to gie her a needle. Maybe this will persuade her. 60 bucks a month just for shots is a waste.

The injections at home are no big deal. My wife hates needles and helps with mine. Basically I just clean the buttcheek with alcohol and inject the needle (the part that she hates) then she aspirates and slowly pushes in the test and I pull it out myself. Tried doing it alone but was kinda shaking when I pushed in the test.

My brother did allergy shots for years and when he first started they had him practice by injecting water to an orange.

[Oasis]

Alot of good information from these guys. I wanted to add one thing that I don't think was mentioned about testosterone continuously is that it is also important to check your hematocrit and red blood cell count because prolonged testosterone will increase these numbers. It is possibly the most over looked thing when talking to people that are being monitored. Also to get the most out of your therapy make sure you are keeping watch on estrogen levels and so on. Most people mention that when you are monitoring for estrogen to look for signs of nipple sensitivity or excessive water retention but my view is to look at sex drive if that is decreasing on the same dosage of testosterone you may want to check estrogen or start a low dose of anastrozole or arimadex. Most people are quick to just increasing the dosage of testosterone when this happens but is not always the best choice.

Also completely agree with the other posts about frequency of your testosterone injections should be moved to once per week or even evey 5 days depending on how you feel. You will get a more even flow and constant increase of those levels. Deciding factor of switching to every 5 days would be on how you feel. If frequency of morning erections decreases on days 5 & 6 after your injections you may want to switch to every 5 days.

Hope that helps a little but it is hard to top a lot of the great information for personal experience on this board.

Oasis Longevity & Rejuvenation Mngmt
1-877-548-3968
www.oasisrejuvenation.com

[zaggahamma]

Alot of good information from these guys. I wanted to add one thing that I don't think was mentioned about testosterone continuously is that it is also important to check your hematocrit and red blood cell count because prolonged testosterone will increase these numbers. It is possibly the most over looked thing when talking to people that are being monitored. Also to get the most out of your therapy make sure you are keeping watch on estrogen levels and so on. Most people mention that when you are monitoring for estrogen to look for signs of nipple sensitivity or excessive water retention but my view is to look at sex drive if that is decreasing on the same dosage of testosterone you may want to check estrogen or start a low dose of anastrozole or arimadex. Most people are quick to just increasing the dosage of testosterone when this happens but is not always the best choice.

Also completely agree with the other posts about frequency of your testosterone injections should be moved to once per week or even evey 5 days depending on how you feel. You will get a more even flow and constant increase of those levels. Deciding factor of switching to every 5 days would be on how you feel. If frequency of morning erections decreases on days 5 & 6 after your injections you may want to switch to every 5 days.

Hope that helps a little but it is hard to top a lot of the great information for personal experience on this board.

Oasis Longevity & Rejuvenation Mngmt
1-877-548-3968
www.oasisrejuvenation.com

Did you mean check your estro and if high...start AI or just if sex drive is low start AI..sorry...it was a bit confusing...and I had read that someone noticed they were getting harder(as in muscle) after starting Letro.

[Oasis]

Well you really should do both. Obviously if your estrogen level is high you would want to start with the anastrozole or arimadex that is if you are doing a blood test soon. You want to try to keep the estradiol level between 15 to 25 for optimal results.

On the other hand if you are not getting a blood test a good way of almost self diagnosis yourself on estrogen is by measuring your sex drive if you feel it not as strong as when you started testosterone replacement you may be experiencing a build up in estrogen and want to start a low dose of those medications.

Hope that is a little more clearer. If not just let me know and I will try to repost or PM me to further the discussion if you would like.

Oasis Longevity & Rejuvenation Mngmt
1-877-548-3968
www.oasisrejuvenation.com

[gritt]

Good input on strogen levels. What about using Lion's Tamox or Clomi to help lower the estrogen levels if they are a bit high?

[zaggahamma]

I guess no reason to use AI or Estro blockers of any kind if estro levels are in that optimum range?

[Oasis]

That is correct if there is no problems with sex drive, nipple sensitivity, or excessive water retention and blood levels are optimal there should be no reason to use any estrogen blockers. If anything you could just use the lowest dose of anastrozole to keep in check. Use blood tests and self monitoring to let you doctor know. The more communication between you and your doctor the better results and safer your program can be. Hope this helps a little especially for those who are not getting the sex drive benefits of TRT.

Oasis Longevity & Rejuvenation Mngmt
1-877-548-3968
www.oasisrejuvenation.com

[vermin]

So if you are having an issue with aromatase it is common for a boost in TRT dosage to see only positive benefits for a week or two, then to slack off with the same dosage? Is this just individual differences, or does it point to some underlying issue that needs addressed?