Cycle HRT

**bringndaheat** · 08-21-2006, 06:04 PM

Alright since I have been on this board for a while now I want throw this out there. Now this is probly going to piss off some of you......

For those of us who have test in the low normal range but choose to do HRT by cycling it through the year. This would be a example of myself. Some of you are going to say that is a AAS cycle, use that board. But like myself I have been prescribed hormones by a doctor for a condition. Now maybe my condition is not as bad as your but still a condition. Which therefore allows for a different type of treatment. "cycling HRT" The science of HRT is really starting to take off...... but it seems like some on here just really have there tumb up there arse with this "that is not true HRT." Who gave you the right to define what "true HRT" is?? Is there a definition in a medical guide of "True HRT" I think as far as science goes we are really only scratching the surface.

So when people come on this board and ask a question don't be so ignorant as to say "that is a cycle not true HRT you need to go to the other board" like I read some that tell people they don't really need HRT. Well who and the hell are you to say we don't need HRT.... You dont live in my body. YOu don't know what kind of joint pain I am in.... If I say i take deca for joint pain as part of my HRT you say that is not hrt. Again did you invent HRT?? Just because you Dr. says Deca is not a part of HRT does not mean mine does. Maybe my dr. is on the cutting edge maybe yours has his thumb up his ass. I don't know but bottom line is give others a chance and learn from them

Bottom line don't tell people wether they should or should not be on HRT. That is a persoanl choice between one person and his DR......

**zaggahamma** · 08-21-2006, 07:10 PM

have you cheked your estro levels lately

JK

Weird, bro...I was just wondering recently about your coctail...LOL
I was meaning to ask you or check your earlier posts cuz i didn't remember off the top of my head where you were (test level wise) when you commenced your medley. Are you upset now that your juicy juice bottles are almost gone

I'm sure you have some refills on the way

**zaggahamma** · 08-21-2006, 07:13 PM

ok...nevermind the ? i had....i saw you were at 546 total test.

**Kale** · 08-21-2006, 07:16 PM

What exactly do you mean by "cycling HRT" ? And I think Deca is a good idea :-)

**Spyke** · 08-21-2006, 09:02 PM

I am guilty of telling guys that they are not candidates for HRT and to check the steroid board. There have been guys who come on here with NO medical problems who want to start HRT for the hell of it. I think they feel better about calling their AAS cycles "HRT".

1. Hormone Replacement is putting something back into your body that should be there but for some reason is not. Period!
2. If you are really hypogonadal then there is no reason to cycle your HRT. Shooting 200mg of cyp into your ass every week is NEVER going to cause your nuts to make normal amounts. Therefore if you do cycle, that would seem to indicate that your levels were not that bad to begin with. Or else why would your dr let you walk around with rock bottom test levels for 6 months or how ever long you are off?

I just think we should call a spade a spade. If someone is doing 12 weeks cycles of test, deca etc and following up with PCT, then they are doing a steroid cycle. I dont care if a doc wrote the script of if they ordered the crap from Mexico, it is still a cycle. As someone who has been on hrt for a while now and after spending hunderds of hours reading about hrt. I think it is fair to point out if something is not "typical" HRT.

**Spyke** · 08-21-2006, 09:46 PM

Bringndaheat

I just reread your post. I do think maybe we do need to a better job in pointing out what is an "Anti Aging" or alternative medicine program and what is "Hormone Replacement". I sometimes forget that this forum covers all that. I have been reading your posts and it sounds like you have made some amazing progress. I also think it sounds like your program falls under the anti aging heading. You are taking deca to reverse the joint damage not because your body doesn't make enough deca...see what I mean?

**eisenmench** · 08-22-2006, 02:34 PM

PERSONALLY ........... I don't want to waste my time getting all hormones in balance, feeling good, doing well in the gym, no libido problems, no lethargy etc. THEN go PCT after 18 days after last shot then 10 weeks getting back DOWN to "normal" If it ain't broke don't fix it. That goes for going on HRT also!

**doublefister** · 08-22-2006, 03:00 PM

how exactly are you cycling your HRT? What are your dosages? If anyone has read the latest MD magazine it talks about studies on how 100-200mg test cyp wont get you in the range you want and that you should be doing at least 300mg test a week. Very interesting read as I hope more studies come and we can legally get prescribed larger amounts because I barely feel my 100mg test cyp a week.

**zaggahamma** · 08-22-2006, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by doublefister

how exactly are you cycling your HRT? What are your dosages? If anyone has read the latest MD magazine it talks about studies on how 100-200mg test cyp wont get you in the range you want and that you should be doing at least 300mg test a week. Very interesting read as I hope more studies come and we can legally get prescribed larger amounts because I barely feel my 100mg test cyp a week.

from what i've seen on this board...100-200mg wkly is placing most where they want to be...however my endo only wrote the RX for 200mg E3W....have you had your levels tested being on 100mg? I know you said how you felt with that dose and that's the most important, but just curious how long have you been on that dose, where your level was that made you start TRT and if you have been retested...thanks bro

**Spyke** · 08-22-2006, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by doublefister

how exactly are you cycling your HRT? What are your dosages? If anyone has read the latest MD magazine it talks about studies on how 100-200mg test cyp wont get you in the range you want and that you should be doing at least 300mg test a week. Very interesting read as I hope more studies come and we can legally get prescribed larger amounts because I barely feel my 100mg test cyp a week.

150mg per week took me from under 200 to around 700.

Got a link to that study?

**bringndaheat** · 08-22-2006, 06:57 PM

Jpkman you are funny bro..... I guess I do need to check my estrogen levels because I am turning into a biatch. Maybe I should up my arimidex to 2mgs

good stuff bro. Maybe I am getting moody.

But really Spyke thanks for taking the time to read my posts I have nothing but respect for you Kale and Jpkman and some others. You made the observation that I was trying to point out. Some people on here are on HRT for very low test levels causing all kinds of problems. While some of us are on HRT for the purpose of anti-aging. A person in there mid thirties should be in the 500-600 test range right. Well that is all fine and good but if being in that range makes it legal to get HRT then so be it. The thing is in that range my Dr. wants me to cycle it. Yes Spyke I agree it is a total loophole. But in my mind I am taking advantage of what science has to offer. If I can afford the best medical care then why not. I think many many many of us could benefit from this science. But then again I have been wrong before and I will be wrong again.

Please don't get me wrong it people like this that ruin it for everyone.......... Originally Posted by doublefister
how exactly are you cycling your HRT? What are your dosages? If anyone has read the latest MD magazine it talks about studies on how 100-200mg test cyp wont get you in the range you want and that you should be doing at least 300mg test a week. Very interesting read as I hope more studies come and we can legally get prescribed larger amounts because I barely feel my 100mg test cyp a week.

For me I think that anything over 400mgs a week of test is a abuse. That is where my doc draws the line and I think that is pretty fair. I have abused some of my privliges already.....my test doses. If people will just read my posts and others posts then they will see that 200mgs of test a week can make a huge difference in a persons life. I will get off my soap box and take some estrogen blockers as you can see what to much test does to a person. I've turned into a moody biatch.

Peace..............

**zaggahamma** · 08-22-2006, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by bringndaheat

Jpkman you are funny bro..... I guess I do need to check my estrogen levels because I am turning into a biatch. Maybe I should up my arimidex to 2mgs

good stuff bro. Maybe I am getting moody.

But really Spyke thanks for taking the time to read my posts I have nothing but respect for you Kale and Jpkman and some others. You made the observation that I was trying to point out. Some people on here are on HRT for very low test levels causing all kinds of problems. While some of us are on HRT for the purpose of anti-aging. A person in there mid thirties should be in the 500-600 test range right. Well that is all fine and good but if being in that range makes it legal to get HRT then so be it. The thing is in that range my Dr. wants me to cycle it. Yes Spyke I agree it is a total loophole. But in my mind I am taking advantage of what science has to offer. If I can afford the best medical care then why not. I think many many many of us could benefit from this science. But then again I have been wrong before and I will be wrong again.

Please don't get me wrong it people like this that ruin it for everyone.......... Originally Posted by doublefister
how exactly are you cycling your HRT? What are your dosages? If anyone has read the latest MD magazine it talks about studies on how 100-200mg test cyp wont get you in the range you want and that you should be doing at least 300mg test a week. Very interesting read as I hope more studies come and we can legally get prescribed larger amounts because I barely feel my 100mg test cyp a week.

For me I think that anything over 400mgs a week of test is a abuse. That is where my doc draws the line and I think that is pretty fair. I have abused some of my privliges already.....my test doses. If people will just read my posts and others posts then they will see that 200mgs of test a week can make a huge difference in a persons life. I will get off my soap box and take some estrogen blockers as you can see what to much test does to a person. I've turned into a moody biatch.

Peace..............

I often wonder if there is an actual number with some of the hrt clinics as they usually treat the symptoms of low T rather than numbers from what I've seen....has anyone ever been given a number to which will get you treatment or not?

I know that this same figure (500-600 total test) will definately prevent one from getting a RX from any endo that I've dealt with. And of course, you might have seen a few that have even been denied that had levels in the upper 200's because they were "IN RANGE".

**skipp** · 08-22-2006, 08:04 PM

That's not HRT

**doublefister** · 08-22-2006, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

from what i've seen on this board...100-200mg wkly is placing most where they want to be...however my endo only wrote the RX for 200mg E3W....have you had your levels tested being on 100mg? I know you said how you felt with that dose and that's the most important, but just curious how long have you been on that dose, where your level was that made you start TRT and if you have been retested...thanks bro

I had my levels checked before I got on TRT which was 282 where the reference range was 100-1100 I believe, but not during which was my doc's mistake which lead me to getting gyno. This time around I will get tested during and see where my levels are at. I will ask the doc this time to up my dose to at least 150mg a week and see how that works for me.

**Spyke** · 08-22-2006, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by bringndaheat

Jpkman you are funny bro..... I guess I do need to But really Spyke thanks for taking the time to read my posts I have nothing but respect for you Kale and Jpkman and some others. You made the observation that I was trying to point out. Some people on here are on HRT for very low test levels causing all kinds of problems. While some of us are on HRT for the purpose of anti-aging. A person in there mid thirties should be in the 500-600 test range right. Well that is all fine and good but if being in that range makes it legal to get HRT then so be it. The thing is in that range my Dr. wants me to cycle it. Yes Spyke I agree it is a total loophole. But in my mind I am taking advantage of what science has to offer. If I can afford the best medical care then why not. I think many many many of us could benefit from this science. But then again I have been wrong before and I will be wrong again.

Peace..............

I just wish we all could get in the habit of not calling EVERYTHING HRT. I know they are just labels and no 2 programs are the same. But my concern is for young guys like Coreytampa who come here confused enough to begin with and then read posts from guys like you who are on 12 week "HRT" cycles with deca and test. Then he wonders why his program is test only and never cycled. If he knows you are on an "anti aging" program and not traditional HRT, that would avoid the confusion.

**bringndaheat** · 08-23-2006, 07:05 AM

point taken.... As there is a big difference. The anti aging loophole will be close soon enough

But to my Dr. HRT is HRT is HRT but just different forms. Everyone is different and compounds should be prescribed differently.

**zaggahamma** · 08-23-2006, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by doublefister

I had my levels checked before I got on TRT which was 282 where the reference range was 100-1100 I believe, but not during which was my doc's mistake which lead me to getting gyno. This time around I will get tested during and see where my levels are at. I will ask the doc this time to up my dose to at least 150mg a week and see how that works for me.

agreed...my doc wouldnt have checked for estro either...nor did she want to do new blood for 6 months...another reminder that they are working for us and never have the final say how in our health

**Ufa** · 08-23-2006, 09:59 AM

There are many ways to look at HRT and it is ever changing. Some Doctors feel any replacement is bad. It very well may be bad if you
have cancer.

If you get cancer and prostate problems out of the way. Re establish
your peak hormone levels and live annother 25 years until they have
stem cells. There will be some (bad mouthing) about that also.

I think most of felt like Spyke when we first started. Then when we
realized we knew more than our endo's (parrot's) in a small cage.

I say that because they error on the side of (not getting sued) you
do just enough to keep them coming back attitude. Most endo's
won't perscribe GH. I'm 55 and never felt better. Please forgive me
if instead of drinking French Champagne, I have a couple of Var with
a side order of Deca and little GH.

**comradebillyboy** · 08-23-2006, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Spyke

I am guilty of telling guys that they are not candidates for HRT and to check the steroid board. There have been guys who come on here with NO medical problems who want to start HRT for the hell of it. I think they feel better about calling their AAS cycles "HRT".

1. Hormone Replacement is putting something back into your body that should be there but for some reason is not. Period!
2. If you are really hypogonadal then there is no reason to cycle your HRT. Shooting 200mg of cyp into your ass every week is NEVER going to cause your nuts to make normal amounts. Therefore if you do cycle, that would seem to indicate that your levels were not that bad to begin with. Or else why would your dr let you walk around with rock bottom test levels for 6 months or how ever long you are off?

I just think we should call a spade a spade. If someone is doing 12 weeks cycles of test, deca etc and following up with PCT, then they are doing a steroid cycle. I dont care if a doc wrote the script of if they ordered the crap from Mexico, it is still a cycle. As someone who has been on hrt for a while now and after spending hunderds of hours reading about hrt. I think it is fair to point out if something is not "typical" HRT.

You make an excellent distinction between the goals of HRT and anti-aging therapy.

I started down the HRT path, but have come to recognize that what I really want is anti-aging therapy. The boys produce a reasonable amount of test and I don't want them to go away so I am not really going to do a real HRT program. But I love the effects of test on this old body so...

**Spyke** · 08-23-2006, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by Ufa

There are many ways to look at HRT and it is ever changing. Some Doctors feel any replacement is bad. It very well may be bad if you
have cancer.

If you get cancer and prostate problems out of the way. Re establish
your peak hormone levels and live annother 25 years until they have
stem cells. There will be some (bad mouthing) about that also.

I think most of felt like Spyke when we first started. Then when we
realized we knew more than our endo's (parrot's) in a small cage.

I say that because they error on the side of (not getting sued) you
do just enough to keep them coming back attitude. Most endo's
won't perscribe GH. I'm 55 and never felt better. Please forgive me
if instead of drinking French Champagne, I have a couple of Var with
a side order of Deca and little GH.

I still think the whole cancer thing is BS. Who cares if your nuts make it or if you shoot it in you ass, test is test. As long as your levels stay in the normal range, I cant see how it increases any cancer risk.

**comradebillyboy** · 08-23-2006, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Spyke

I still think the whole cancer thing is BS. Who cares if your nuts make it or if you shoot it in you ass, test is test. As long as your levels stay in the normal range, I cant see how it increases any cancer risk.

From what my friends who have had prostate cancer tell me, a big component of the treatment is to suppress all of the body's natural test production-chemical castration.

**Kale** · 08-23-2006, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by comradebillyboy

From what my friends who have had prostate cancer tell me, a big component of the treatment is to suppress all of the body's natural test production-chemical castration.

I have had many discussions with Dr's about this and they just dont know what cayses Prostate Cancer. When they are faced with the argument that only older men with Test levels on the decline get Prostate Cancer they have no explanantion. There are several studies that point to Estrogen as the possible cause.

**Spyke** · 08-23-2006, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Kale

I have had many discussions with Dr's about this and they just dont know what cayses Prostate Cancer. When they are faced with the argument that only older men with Test levels on the decline get Prostate Cancer they have no explanantion. There are several studies that point to Estrogen as the possible cause.

Well prostate cancer is usually very slow to grow. So us HRT lifers who get labs (including psa) every 6 months are probably light years ahead of normal men and IF we had any problems they would be caught VERY VERY early.

So who is better off, us or the normal guys?

**try-n** · 08-23-2006, 05:37 PM

I'm also doing thre anti aging/ hrt thing. I'm 45. I'm using hgh and plan on long term usage.Right now I', doing a test/deca cycle also.the deca to help with lingering injuries,the test to counter the deca,plus a little more to bring my levels up to resonable,and an anti estrogen. That is a 10 week cycle. based on how I feel now,I may just skip the pct and continue the test. I want to try a couple different things and see what make me feel the most normal.I'm thinking a cyp/eth/prop mix,100/100/50mg once a week,maybe another50 of prop later in the week if I feel my libido going up and down. I really think it is a blurry line between hrt and anti aging,unless someone is 23 and says the want to get big for football the benifit of the doubt should probably offered. It wasn't untill I started my 'cycle' that I really understood what high estogen and low test do to a guy. Now I'm much more open to the idea of steady hrt. I could cycle off,get more bloodwork done, but I don't think I need any more convincing. I just wanted to start with a cycle to see how it went,but now I'm much more comfortable with it.

**bringndaheat** · 08-23-2006, 08:11 PM

Try-n, I like your program. But spare yourself from the Cyp/enth/prop. Way to much swing in your test levels. It will make you a moody biatch. Trust me I put prop in my program and that was big mistake. Unless you are ready to shoot ed then don't even start. Bottom line right after the shot for the next 6-8hrs you feel great but after that I really feel a let down. If you just remain on the cyp or enth it will be much more steady and you won't have the bad peaks and valley's! As for HRT/anti aging, I still don'thave kids so I want to keep my boys working. But after I have children I am sure i will go on full time. But that is just me.

AS for the cancer thing...one is four get prostate cancer so go figure..... It's usually men with big beer guts that used to work out...........

**try-n** · 08-24-2006, 03:35 PM

Thanks for the tip. I don't mind a couple injections a week,but ed is too much for me.I'm going to try a couple different approaches,and find what works for me.I really want to watch my estrogen levels,as my bf goes down my need for anti-e's should go down too. If the way I feel when my estogen is high and my test is low is how women feel all the time it sure explains a lot.....