Thyroid Function

[Indymuscleguy]

Hi,

I have been having issues with increased heart-rate, little sleep, and anxiety. I went to my family doc and he suggested that we look at my thyroid.

I have never taken a diet pill, ephedrine, T3 or T4. Just prop, cyp, ethan, and masteron cycles in the past.

BTW I'm 41yo.

My TSH is ZERO
My Free T4 is 2.5 (high)

He is checking for 'antibodies' and is referring me to an endocrinologist.

I have been using 2iu's of GH/day 5 on and 2 off. My symptoms have been occurring before I started the GH.

Thoughts...opinions...advice

[AnabolicBoy1981]

somethins up. i dont think its from the roids though. these things happen with the thyroid. lotsa environmental factors. if your sensitive your sensitive, an now at 41 it just happend to produce symptoms.
oh well at least your not hypo thyroid.
they may put you on fluouride tabs later or radiocative iodine, but unfortunetly those cause hypo eventually. Its a tricky game with thyroid. But eventually if they sup with cytomel, it should all end. so basically your high, theyre gonna give you somethin to make it lower, but may eventually cause it to be too low, then you will have to take cytomel.
Maybe ask your docs about "cycling " the fluride and RAI so that you dont have permanant shut down.
I dunno.
Good luck.

[Indymuscleguy]

Anabolic Boy -

check PM and thanks for the info

[gunzgunz]

i have a problem with my thyroid from various medications and was prescribed levothyroxin(synthroid). the symptoms are constant sweating, feeling really hot, out of energy, tired, and basically pissed off because working out isnt easy due to a chemical problem. synthroid put everything back into place. a simple blood test will tell if you have an underactive thyroid gland( hypothyroidism).

---good luck with this

[Jawncy]

You likely have HYPERThyroidism. I have and auto-immunde disorder called Hashimoto's thyroiditis, a disease in which the immune system of ones body kills the thyroid and prevents it from working. I take a combination of T3 and T4 called Armouir. Please go to a website called http://www.thyroidmanager.org. You will find significant stuff there on hyperthyroidism. It is not very fun. Once you start to have endocrine issues, many other things can happen as in my case. My autoimmune dysfunction is also killing my testes making my testosterone levels below the lowest scale on the test. It can also cause an insulin resistance and an adrenal dysfunction all of which I may have. Just took the antibody test for these issues today. At least you take care of the rest of your body, chances are you'll be able to fix this, fairly easily. Hyperthyroidism is a bit more difficult since they have to stop the production of thyroid rather than induce it. Technically this is more difficult.

[Jawncy]

The adrenal gland secretes Thyroid Stimulating HOrmone (TSH) and then the thyroid secretes T4 and a conversion takes place where T4 is converted to the active substance T3 through deiodinization. (removing the iodine). Read more on it at that website, it is quite technical.

[Jawncy]

I think I got this wrong, I think the Thyroid Relasing Hormone stimulates the hypothalmus but I am not quite sure, I know this isn't quite right though.

[goldenFloyd]

from: http://www.endocrineweb.com/tests.html

"Measurement of Pituitary Production of TSH. Pituitary production of TSH is measured by a method referred to as IRMA (immunoradiometric assay). Normally, low levels (less than 5 units) of TSH are sufficient to keep the normal thyroid gland functioning properly. When the thyroid gland becomes inefficient such as in early hypothyroidism, the TSH becomes elevated even though the T4 and T3 may still be within the "normal" range. This rise in TSH represents the pituitary gland's response to a drop in circulating thyroid hormone; it is usually the first indication of thyroid gland failure. Since TSH is normally low when the thyroid gland is functioning properly, the failure of TSH to rise when circulating thyroid hormones are low is an indication of impaired pituitary function. The new "sensitive" TSH test will show very low levels of TSH when the thyroid is overactive (as a normal response of the pituitary to try to decrease thyroid stimulation). Interpretations of the TSH level ***ends upon the level of thyroid hormone; therefore, the TSH is usually used in combination with other thyroid tests such as the T4 RIA and T3 RIA."

it seems to me that TSH is what the pituitary stimulates which in turn stimulates t3 and t4. If you have low-ish t3/t4 and your TSH is non-existant, it seems like the pituitary may not be doing its job because it should be reacting to that?

I have no medical training, so my interpretation could be incorrect, but good luck.

[Jawncy]

I think he has Graves disease. You must measure free T3 as well. If TSH is SUPER LOW and T4 if SUPER HIGH you may have Grave's Disease. Look at the site I told you about. It is very informative.

Really it could be so many things since there are many organs involved in this negative feedback loop between the organs and several levels of internal measurement, organ chemical dispersion, chemical conversion and final result in T3. When I went to my Endocrinologist today I saw just how complicated it is after he explained it to me for almost 45 minutes and barely touched on a lot of it. He suspects I have Polyglandular Autoimmune Syndrome which happens in only 14-20 out of a million people. This is where the entire endocrine system breaks down resulting in multiple hormone and endocrine organ failure.

[Indymuscleguy]

Wow guys thanks for all the info. I feel we can all learn from this. I don't have a lot of time to type right now, but here's what I know so far...

1. I was diagnosed with Graves Disease for sure
2. I have been tested for 'other overactive immune processes' via bloodwork and all came back negative
3. My K+ had dropped like a rock as a result of the Radioactive Iodine treatment and I experienced a temporarly loss of muscle function in my lower legs and shoulders, requiring a 3 night stay in the ICU.
4. My K+ is back to normal
5. Today, my thyroid is low now and I am being put on a low dose of Synthroid to 'act' like TSH.
6. My normal weight year-round is 170 with 12%bf, right now I am 190 and look like a pig.
7. I can resume weight training slowly and gradually increase back to where I was.

So hopefully with the combination of a stricter diet and the synthroid, I will get my bodyweight and fat% lowered to normal.

(I wonder what oral winny will do to help 'speed up' the fat loss now. Will synthroid interact in any way?)

Again, thanks!

Indymuscleguy

[Jawncy]

Indy MG

I noticed later, after I posted that this was so long ago and that you had a subsequent informative post about your Grave's. Personally I am concerned myself with this new information about Autoimmune diseases in general. Alwasy be on the lookout for autoantibodies in your blood for the various systems affected by the endocrine system. Adrenal Autoanitbodies, Hypothalmus autoantibodies, etc. If there are antibodies in your blood for these organs, your bodies own immune system is destroying them. Get checked periodically please.

I am sure your metabolism sloed down significantly. In addition to the autoimmune disorder you could also have insulin resistance. THis happens in many cases with people who have autoimmune diseases. It causes your liver to work overtime and your cholesterol to go up dangerously high. Mine is 320-370 and I can't get it down with statins since I can't take those due to liver enzyme dyisfunction from tylenol poisoning. Just an overall pain in the butt.

Also ensure you have a proper T4 to T3 conversion mechanism in place. My own T4 to T3 conversion mechanism is faulty and I"ve been taking Synthroid for 3 years and just found out it isn't working effectively so they put me on Armour thyroid which has both T4 and T3 in it.

If that's a picture of you really, then you don't look bad at all but if your 20 lbs over that I'd probably be scared :0) !

I think I would have that iodine treatment. I wonder if they have to kill it all or if they can just kill a little of it off instead of the whole thing? That radioactive iodine you drank, did it kill all of your thyroid?

[Indymuscleguy]

Thanks Jawncy,

I have been tested for a general 'overactive immune' system. There is a specific 'gene' or 'blood marker' that my internist completed and it came back negative.

I will admit that I have three overactive immune processes that have hit me over the years, two were more recent. Psorasis, but mild, is the first, Ulcerative colitis, which was in '99 and had a total colectomy with a J-Pouch reconstruction in 2005, and now Graves disease. The graves was treated with Iodine 131 successfully.

I have had my T3 and T4 as well as the T-7 which is a combo-scaled value comparing the T3 and T4 (3+4=7) well you get the idea. The thing that came out of the blue was the periodic paralysis syndrome, which in Asian men is more common than caucasion men 1.8% vs. 0.1%. My K+ was 1.6 one morning and I was paralyzed from the waist down. All was reversed by 5pm that same day via IV K+, but kept me for observation. I was in 'grave' danger (no pun intended). If your K+ is below 2.0, most people would die from a heart attack, no one can tell me why I survived!

I was on oral K+ for three weeks and have been decreasing the dose slowly and now I am off of it.

I have met with an internest, an endocrinologist, and a cardiologist. All were baffeled, but have released me to resume exercise at a slow to moderate pace.

My avaitor is me in 2005 right before I had the total colectomy and J-Pouch construction. I am in descent shape currently, just not hard. I normally wear a 32"w pant...right now 34" are tight!!

So, cardio and diet...here I come. Everyone seems to think that my TSH/Thyroid/Graves disease will be the last bad case of luck and I will 'feel so much better!"...I told the endocrinologist today...I want to shed this 20lb weight loss via synthroid. He said, we are going to watch your dose of synthroid cautiously and carefully.

Because I don't have a colon, I figured I would have a hard time keeping the weight on as I go to the bathroom 6-8 times a day. Yet, herre I am, 20lbs over my 'top shape' weight!

I want to do a Test E and Masteron cycle in the very near fufture. I want to throw in some oral anavar, but wonder if it will be absorbed fast enough.

Thoughts/Ideas/suggestions are all welcome and appreciated.

Indymuscleguy

[Indymuscleguy]

Bump...

[Indymuscleguy]

Bump...Bump...

I am considering adding T-3 if my endo does not prescribe Armour, which works on T-3 and T-4. I can't take the extra fat around my midsection. I'm in a 34" waist pant now, for the first time, and I look so bloated. For whatever reason, my head and fingers are holding water, yet my ankles are fine. When I check my pec thickness, quad thickness, sub scapular area, my waist, wich used to be 30" to 32" at the most, is looking like a pot belly.

I'm upping the cardio to 1hr a day and lifting EOD. I am really pushing the protien and good carbs, as well as a great PWO shake. I have switched from chicken to mostly lean beef and salmon in my diet.

Fellas, I'm so pissed about the fat gains due to my thyroid disease. The only conclusion is to supplimnet with cytomel/T-3 to get my metabolism back up and runnning.

Again, thanks for all the advise...comment at will

[Jawncy]

QBTW. . . Salmon has on on lot of fat-good fat but on on lot of it. I would be extra, careful about T3 addition since the thyroid has a monstrous half life. It could take up tp six weeks to eight weeks before you feel it.. I agree slow metabolism is horrible. I can't seem to lose weight around my middle. I'm not as picky as some. I'm 25 lbs overweight due to illness for several years.. When i feel better i'll go back to gym. Armour has a ratio of T3 to T4 of 3 to 5.-3 of T4. Your natural balance is 5 to 3-5 of T4. Some people can't handle Armour because of this reverse balance. Then you have to take cytomel and levothyroxine together. There is a thing called reverse T3 which can prevent the conversion of T4 to T3. I have this resistance or a conversion problem in general.

[Jawncy]

The reason for the caution is bacause you can die of a heart attack with too much T3.

[Indymuscleguy]

Jawncy,

Yea, I understand. I am being cautious and seeking advise. I guess my real question is 33mcg of T-3 that's being converted from the 100mcg of Synthroid is enough to re-establish a descent metabolic rate. I will be getting a TSH, T-3 and T4 drawn in two to three weeks. I am just curious what is a safe, but effective level of T-3. I know the endocrinologist will tell me the normal to maximum range, I'm just wondering what blood levels are considered 'dangerous'.

I had an incident with too low of K+ a month ago...

Thanks