chronic back pain and steriods

[Apocalypse27]

Hi, new to forum and also posted this elsewhere on this site. not sure where to put it but i badly need some advice. I've got bad chronic back injury, herniated discs which it looks like i'll be living with for the rest of my life. My pain management doc said he can prescribe GH or other steriods , i'm in australia, but research shows it would not help me he said. beside the fact I've lost 7kg of muscle and dropped to 60kg i thought it would definalty help with that. anyway, 1- does anyone here think of anything that would help? The thing that gets me is they ask me to swim and do physical rehab so i thought the steroids or gh would only help that? Also i'm on a lot of pain killers like oxy's and also prozac. does anyone know if they can be taken with steroids/gh safely? Thanks

[Big]

Are there any surgery options available for you?

[Dizz28]

Hi, new to forum and also posted this elsewhere on this site. not sure where to put it but i badly need some advice. I've got bad chronic back injury, herniated discs which it looks like i'll be living with for the rest of my life. My pain management doc said he can prescribe GH or other steriods, i'm in australia, but research shows it would not help me he said. beside the fact I've lost 7kg of muscle and dropped to 60kg i thought it would definalty help with that. anyway, 1- does anyone here think of anything that would help? The thing that gets me is they ask me to swim and do physical rehab so i thought the steroids or gh would only help that? Also i'm on a lot of pain killers like oxy's and also prozac. does anyone know if they can be taken with steroids/gh safely? Thanks

If you have back problems, I think the last thing you would want is to have more weight in your upper body. That would put more strain on your back

A doctor isn't gonna prescribe your Gh or steroids to help you swim or run faster

Point is, your Doctor is just that...a Doctor. I can see trying to get another opinion from another doctor in your area but not from someone on here. No one here knows your case or has studied your films so no one could give you proper medical advice. Listen to your Doctor, he probably knows what he's talking about

[Apocalypse27]

Thanks guys. Yeah, i'm waiting for some last results that a surgeon sent me for so i'm hoping they can operate. cheers.

[ironaddict69]

I do know however people who have had great improvement in back pain, and healing from injuries with gh and deca .

[brianfantana]

Anavar (Oxandrolone) is prescribed for conditions when you're wasting away, mainly for AIDS as it helps to rebuild you- i'm not sure why a doctor would prescribe anything like it for your back though, although it increases strength - if you were finding it difficult to walk because of pressure put on other limbs maybe it'd help?

I suggest your doctor knows alot more than we and I hope you get it sorted out soon.

Best of luck.

[39+1]

Anavar (Oxandrolone) is prescribed for conditions when you're wasting away, mainly for AIDS as it helps to rebuild you- i'm not sure why a doctor would prescribe anything like it for your back though, although it increases strength - if you were finding it difficult to walk because of pressure put on other limbs maybe it'd help?

I suggest your doctor knows alot more than we and I hope you get it sorted out soon.

Best of luck.

I went back on after 20 years because i could not find relief from LBP, At this time my back feels great
when i work out its a lot of the same stuff ive always done and i focus on my low back big time. again my back feels great.
there two thoughts here.
1) I have stregthened my back and the muscles and joints are working better than prevously
2) Steriods hide a lot of micro trauma that occured while playing football because i was in great shape and now that im on very light doses they are masking again.
I think it is both and i dont care my back is wonderfull. The best its done for many a decade. Im off the frickin pain meds, NSAIDS and the other shit.
Maybe nobody agrees with this but it has worked out for me and I hope you all the best.
If you want to know how much we know about a specifac disease look at how many treatment there are. thge more treatment the less we know!
Dont get surgery just for pain it never works and youll regret it later. Try the T-epidurals and the Rhizotomy, but no surgery unless you have hard neuro signs like peter failure. or radiculopathy.

[dedic8ed1]

Hi, new to forum and also posted this elsewhere on this site. not sure where to put it but i badly need some advice. I've got bad chronic back injury, herniated discs which it looks like i'll be living with for the rest of my life. My pain management doc said he can prescribe GH or other steriods, i'm in australia, but research shows it would not help me he said. beside the fact I've lost 7kg of muscle and dropped to 60kg i thought it would definalty help with that. anyway, 1- does anyone here think of anything that would help? The thing that gets me is they ask me to swim and do physical rehab so i thought the steroids or gh would only help that? Also i'm on a lot of pain killers like oxy's and also prozac. does anyone know if they can be taken with steroids/gh safely? Thanks

Welcome to the club,training with pain is very tuff but pain meds will prob give you more of a dependence then fix your problem.I myself was out for about 10 months due to a herneiated disc in the T-spine and my MRI report was a mild one but the pain was pretty signifacant for the first couple months,epidoral did nothing the drug they used was "DEPOMEDROL".I think the pain can give you a range of threshold,for instance if your on your pain killers"lifekillers"your not going to know your limits of how hard you can train,and you'll probably do more damage then good.As far as doctors go back pain is a mystery,as far as this doctor suggesting GH or any other steroids regularly...,,,well I never of that.Good luck

[CULT]

Low Does Deca And Hgh. Basically Some Hormone Thearpy. Lose Weight, Work On That Stomach And Walk Or Do Some Light Jogging Daily When You Can, Out Of Pain. Good Luck, It Will Work.

[DrBell]

If you have back problems, I think the last thing you would want is to have more weight in your upper body. That would put more strain on your back

A doctor isn't gonna prescribe your Gh or steroids to help you swim or run faster

Point is, your Doctor is just that...a Doctor. I can see trying to get another opinion from another doctor in your area but not from someone on here. No one here knows your case or has studied your films so no one could give you proper medical advice. Listen to your Doctor, he probably knows what he's talking about

This is good advice from Dizz. Once a disc is herniated it has to be removed and surgery is used to stabilize that motor segment of the spine. I do not like discussing this as I am a chiropractor, but there are some good surgeons out there that can do the new prosthetic disc replacement and not fuse your spine together. The pulp portion of the disc that is now outside of the fiberous portion and will cause your body to respond to it like a foreign protein setting up a lot of inflammation. This is why some docs like to try cortisol shots. I wouldn't go there. Just ask your doctor if he could refer you to a good orthopedic doc that does the prosthetic disc. It's too late to fix and adjust that segment, but to prevent the other adjacent ones from following suit, I would start visiting a chiro.
later

[fbcoach]

Like 39+ I had a cervical lamenectomy playing football. Surgery is a LAST RESORT. In most cases it will not heal pain..only the structural problems. I have had chronic pain since 92'. I am on TRT and it has helped somewhat by strengthening the muscles. I am also on 20mgs Hydrocortisone, which has also helped somewhat. I am in the process of having my thyroid checked out. New studies show that chronic muscle pain is linked to low FT3. Are you also suffering from fatigue?

[39+1]

This is good advice from Dizz. Once a disc is herniated it has to be removed and surgery is used to stabilize that motor segment of the spine. I do not like discussing this as I am a chiropractor, but there are some good surgeons out there that can do the new prosthetic disc replacement and not fuse your spine together. The pulp portion of the disc that is now outside of the fiberous portion and will cause your body to respond to it like a foreign protein setting up a lot of inflammation. This is why some docs like to try cortisol shots. I wouldn't go there. Just ask your doctor if he could refer you to a good orthopedic doc that does the prosthetic disc. It's too late to fix and adjust that segment, but to prevent the other adjacent ones from following suit, I would start visiting a chiro.
later

they stopped doing the prosthetic because the return/side effects was sooooooooooooooooooooo bad nothing like they are getting in europe stay away from manipulation its not good either just read the disability guidlines "wouldnt go there with coricosteriods "this guy is a joke man
again nobody is doing the prosthetic disc. again this guy is a joke,
no chiro bad bad bad, chiro makes no sense and if shit for brains wants to go at it come Mr. Chiro ill eat you up it, Ill put you in a box wiht no windows or doors and your lats defense will be " I HAVE TO PAY MY STUDENT LOANS SOME HOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
(and dont be a shmuck and attack my spelling)

[Dizz28]

^^^ i can barely understand that post...

[Apocalypse27]

Wow, thanks heaps for the advice guys. I've had 7 cortisone/whatever needles put in over two years under cat scan that have done nothing. Still waiting for the surgeon, they are so slow. doesn't he know i'm sitting waiting by the fax every day!!!! I understand most sides of the advice, chronic back pain is a mystery to a lot of docs. Thought that by using something like deca and GH as suggested i can get my life back. Pain killers are the worst, i've been on oxy for over 1.5yrs and am addicted. I also suffer migraines, usually wake up 3 0r 4 mornings in a row and then they go for a week. I'm off work, i manage a gym, more then anything i was getting to depressed watching everyone train. at least i can get some time off but because physical rehab has failed so many times i'm looking for the surgery fix or to use steroids because i've got it in my head that working out without them is useless!!! Sorry for the rant but great to get it out of the system and see people care half a world away. much appreiciated!! I'll post some pics of my massive guns and tree trunk legs in the new members forum. At 60kg, 125 odd lbs you can imagine how big i am!!!

[39+1]

dint understand my last post Dizz yeah it was a bit of a rant but the info is correct.
back pain ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; ;;;;
here is the truth of the matter.Your gonna have to fix this pain thing in your mind. Yup thats the truth and it is hard to swalllow. unless you have some hard neurological problems no surgery. yeah reahb is is great but that area of your body is damaged it not just damged one time it is a cumaltive effect. trust me yiou dont have a "WEAK BACK"
or a**ominals. its a bullshit excuse. rehab is performed to conditon your mind that movememnt is okay. but nobody understands that soooooooo you say wek back and tada they say oh okay.
Sorry mister but you have to fix your mind. if you not a woman youll be able to digest this easier. That just the truth and I dont make the rules I just folllow the research. your also self employed so youll have a better time accepting this.

[Kratos]

39+1
I know a good bit about spine surgery and I can tell you total disc replacements are quite common and the results are comparable to fusion. The recovery is often quicker because of the anterior aproach. The reason it hasen't caught on in a big way in the US is because of insurance but that is changing. I see these patients dealing with a hernated disc and I can tell you it is not in their head, they would eat shit if they thought it would make them better. There are many that don't need surgery, are looking to get disabled, or just enjoy being on pain killers. There are many that do quite well with surgery though.

[Apocalypse27]

I understand the mind thing. This Neurosergeon is my last physical chance then i'm accepting the pain and dealing with it if nothing can be done. Seeing a pain shrink at moment anyway, so half way there. If they say i'm stuck with it then i'll start the road to recovery mentally. Bit afraid of having my back sliced open but at the moment would do anything to get rid of it.

[fbcoach]

Apocalypse27,
Don't know if you read my last post, but I have already been thru all of this. I broke my neck and flattened my spinal cord in 3 places. My neurosurgeon told me that the surgery would fix everything....and it did BUT not the pain. I have had chronic pain and fatigue for 15 years. Been to every Chiroparctor, Physical Therapist, Physiatrist, Pain mangement center, Psychologist, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. None of it helped..well, maybe while I was being massaged. The only thing that helped was one of the SSRIs. Can't remember which one. But I could not function on it. I elected not to get hooked on the pain meds. It took me a couple of years, but I finally accepted that this was the way it was going to be.So, I decided I would do the best I could. Not to be bragging, but my life has continued and I have learned to know my limits without giving up a high quality life. In this time I have raised my son by myself since he was 1yr of age..now 10yrs old. I have the build of a bodybuilder..maybe not competitive, but at 5'8 185lbs and less than 12%bf, not too bad for a 48yr old. I have also won (head coach) 3 State titles, 6 Regional, and 10 district. I'm not say ing this to brag (well, maybe a little, but to let you know, no matter what your life will continue and it is up to you to make the best out of it. With all this said, remember, technology is advancing every day. There are things you can do to help the pain and live with it. Lots of recent studies have shown a link to low freeT3 levels, low IGF (pituitary) level, and pain. These are just some of the things to look into. Some things that have helped me are: staying hydrated, getting enough quality sleep (very important in dealing with pain), staying strong and good stamina (don't over do it/makes it worse), resting when needed, following a good diet, and keeping bodyfat under control. You may want to try magnesium and calcium. Most pain is myofascial pain (muscles). Anyway, don't give up on your search. In fact, I have an appointment with an Endocrinologist next month. This should prove to be helpful. Good luck!!!!

[Apocalypse27]

Thanks for that fbcoach, i just saved that post in word format. That is the inspiration and approach i need. Thanks again everyone, i'm literally amazed at the positive responses and let it be known that i am taking it all to heart, so you have all helped a 27yr old(Male, incase no one is sure, although my posts are seemingly a little feminine ) The best thing is it gets me to stop feeling sorry for myself and learn to deal with whatever comes. I'll keep all posted. I'd better start using some juice just so i can keep on these forums!!!

[39+1]

39+1
I know a good bit about spine surgery and I can tell you total disc replacements are quite common and the results are comparable to fusion. The recovery is often quicker because of the anterior aproach. The reason it hasen't caught on in a big way in the US is because of insurance but that is changing. I see these patients dealing with a hernated disc and I can tell you it is not in their head, they would eat shit if they thought it would make them better. There are many that don't need surgery, are looking to get disabled, or just enjoy being on pain killers. There are many that do quite well with surgery though.

Hello and thanks for your input it was read and well taken, and very pleasantly written. Are you a neurosurgeon? If so lets talk?
No the disc implants are not even close to receiving the results reported in europe. They have been discontinued by my collegues until further determination. The anterior approach ( it is the best way to go)for some reason is causing alot of complications not identified in the research form europe. Maybe they didnt document it or the complications was just accepted follow thru treatment. or they the patients in the european socialized med system were told get better and stop complaining and go back to work regardless.
Im sure you know they have been perfroming this in europe since 1984 and the lady that developed the disc was a russian gymnist that defected to europe and became and orthopedist. welll enough with the history.

[39+1]

Thanks for that fbcoach, i just saved that post in word format. That is the inspiration and approach i need. Thanks again everyone, i'm literally amazed at the positive responses and let it be known that i am taking it all to heart, so you have all helped a 27yr old(Male, incase no one is sure, although my posts are seemingly a little feminine ) The best thing is it gets me to stop feeling sorry for myself and learn to deal with whatever comes. I'll keep all posted. I'd better start using some juice just so i can keep on these forums!!!

If the t-epidurals help you would want to have rhizotomy performed. but the drw back there is when the nerve fiber regenerate 8 months to tow years later there will be more pain, its an accepteable conclusion but to what degree would be the question. And you would just have rhizotomy performed again.
good luck one last note quite telling those around you your back hurts your gonna inadvertantly reinforce you pain, and it will become an unwanted slogan

[Kratos]

Hello and thanks for your input it was read and well taken, and very pleasantly written. Are you a neurosurgeon? If so lets talk?
No the disc implants are not even close to receiving the results reported in europe. They have been discontinued by my collegues until further determination. The anterior approach ( it is the best way to go)for some reason is causing alot of complications not identified in the research form europe. Maybe they didnt document it or the complications was just accepted follow thru treatment. or they the patients in the european socialized med system were told get better and stop complaining and go back to work regardless.
Im sure you know they have been perfroming this in europe since 1984 and the lady that developed the disc was a russian gymnist that defected to europe and became and orthopedist. welll enough with the history.

Results reported in Europe are not the only results available. The disc you are talking about developed by Karen Bushner Jans among others is the SB Charite III which Johnson and Johnson bought for 325 million dollars, not to mention all the money they spent bringing it to market 3 years ago. They had to present 2 year follow up data to the fda proving no less than equivelence to fusion. 5 year follow up is now available from that study and it looks good. In addition Synthes brought their prodisc to market in the US 6 months ago. Medtronic will have the Mavrick on the market in the next year. Stryker will follow, but I forget the name of their lumbar disc. Medtronic just brought the Prestige cervical disc to market, and soon will have the bryant cervical disc available to surgeons as well. Depuy (Johnson + Johnson) will have the discover disc in the next year or two. Synthes has the Pro-disc C on the market soon. All of these disc's must have their own clinical data for presentation to the FDA. These companies are throwing huge amounts of money into motion preservation technologies and clinical studies, not just total disc replacement but facet arthroplasty, nucleus augmentation, non rigid pedicle screw constructs. Why are they doing it if the technology doesn't work?

[Kratos]

rhizotomy? wtf.

[fbcoach]

Results reported in Europe are not the only results available. The disc you are talking about developed by Karen Bushner Jans among others is the SB Charite III which Johnson and Johnson bought for 325 million dollars, not to mention all the money they spent bringing it to market 3 years ago. They had to present 2 year follow up data to the fda proving no less than equivelence to fusion. 5 year follow up is now available from that study and it looks good. In addition Synthes brought their prodisc to market in the US 6 months ago. Medtronic will have the Mavrick on the market in the next year. Stryker will follow, but I forget the name of their lumbar disc. Medtronic just brought the Prestige cervical disc to market, and soon will have the bryant cervical disc available to surgeons as well. Depuy (Johnson + Johnson) will have the discover disc in the next year or two. Synthes has the Pro-disc C on the market soon. All of these disc's must have their own clinical data for presentation to the FDA. These companies are throwing huge amounts of money into motion preservation technologies and clinical studies, not just total disc replacement but facet arthroplasty, nucleus augmentation, non rigid pedicle screw constructs. Why are they doing it if the technology doesn't work?

Just a quick question: Being as I had a cervical lamenectomy, would the facet arthroplasty and cervical disc be of any help with chronic pain? A very close friend of mine works for Johnson and Johson in hip/knee replacements, and I am sure he could recommend someone I could consult with in the near future. Thanks

[fbcoach]

Thanks for that fbcoach, i just saved that post in word format. That is the inspiration and approach i need. Thanks again everyone, i'm literally amazed at the positive responses and let it be known that i am taking it all to heart, so you have all helped a 27yr old(Male, incase no one is sure, although my posts are seemingly a little feminine ) The best thing is it gets me to stop feeling sorry for myself and learn to deal with whatever comes. I'll keep all posted. I'd better start using some juice just so i can keep on these forums!!!

Sorry to hear you are so young. I know what it is like to be taken out of your prime. One of the things that really helped me was learning about Christopher Reeves' (Superman) accident and how he continued on. I know chronic pain really sucks to deal with, but persevere and don't give up. With the way technology is advancing there are many things you can do. Chronic pain is related to neurotransmitters and your glands/hormones. What happens in cases of acute pain is the pain is being caused by something specific (broken bone, cut, infection, etc.). When it is treated, the pain signals subside. In cases of chronic pain, the pain signals (from neurotransmitters) stay open for some reason or another. The key is to stop the pain signals or shut the gates so to speak.
As for feeling sorry for yourself, that is just part of this at the beginning. The more you learn and find you do have some control over your situation, the more optimistic you will become. Believe it or not, that in itself will help with the pain. Anyway, as I find out more I will share this info with you. GOOD LUCK and don't give up!!

[Kratos]

Just a quick question: Being as I had a cervical lamenectomy, would the facet arthroplasty and cervical disc be of any help with chronic pain? A very close friend of mine works for Johnson and Johson in hip/knee replacements, and I am sure he could recommend someone I could consult with in the near future. Thanks

Most likely not, facet arthroplasty in the cervical spine is still years away. It is impossible to say if you are indicated for disc replacement without MRI, CT scan, and plain film x-rays as well as full exam, I wasn't advocating it was the treetment of choice for the threadstarter or a majic bullet, I was just defending the operation because motion preservation is where the industy is headed. Most likely post laminectomy the prefered action is going to be fusion, due to less stability, and people do very well with that. You should see a spine specialist and see what your options are.

[fbcoach]

Most likely not, facet arthroplasty in the cervical spine is still years away. It is impossible to say if you are indicated for disc replacement without MRI, CT scan, and plain film x-rays as well as full exam, I wasn't advocating it was the treetment of choice for the threadstarter or a majic bullet, I was just defending the operation because motion preservation is where the industy is headed. Most likely post laminectomy the prefered action is going to be fusion, due to less stability, and people do very well with that. You should see a spine specialist and see what your options are.

Actually, I am in the process of seeing an Endocriniologist for the chronic pain. Do you have any experience in treating chronic pain?

[Kratos]

Unless you have an adrenal insufficiency or something else wrong with blood work I don't see how much help an endocrinologist is going to be. I would see a neuro or ortho spine surgeon to make sure there is no pathology that can be addressed before getting to far down the pain meds path.

[fbcoach]

Unless you have an adrenal insufficiency or something else wrong with blood work I don't see how much help an endocrinologist is going to be. I would see a neuro or ortho spine surgeon to make sure there is no pathology that can be addressed before getting to far down the pain meds path.

Kratos,
Yes, I do have adrenal insufficiency. On a saliva test, I was below the norm in the morning afternoon and mid-afternoon tests. On the blood test, it was in the bottom of the range. My FT3 and FT4 were also in the bottom of the norm. My CRP (measures inflammation) was waaaayyyyy off the charts. 10x the norm. Several studies have linked low FT3 to chronic pain. Also, low serotonin and dopamine levels are linked to chronic pain. This is one reason HGH may help Apocalypse27. Most people that have had chronic pain are usually hypothyroid and adrenal insufficient. Any info much appreciated.

[fbcoach]

Apocalypse27,
How are you doing energy-wise?

[1pete]

I've been reading the posts regarding the SB Charite and I'm amazed at what I see. I had this disc placed into my back in 2002, I was in the test study 1 of 200 to get info for the fda to approve. I was in a car accident and I herniated l/5 s/1 and l/3. My doc and me chose to have the l5/s1 replaced. I wanted both but he told me that I would have to go to Germany to have it done as the FDA wouldn't allow 2 disc replacements. Prior to this I had a lamencotmy which made me worse. I use to walk all hunched over. My doc told me that my only restrictions would be I couln't stand or sit more than 8 hours at a time. That never even bothered me. I haven't had any pain in l5/s1 for 5 years. I presently have a job where I am on my feet 5-6 days a week for 6-10 at a time. My feet hurt more than my back, however, about 3 weeks ago, i was intoxicated and I did something, that I can't remember and now I've had some pain. Until then I was pain free at l5/s1, My l3 always hurt but it wasn'y chronic like L5. With this new pain I find it at it's worse when I am on my feet all day and the minute I get off my feet the pain subsides. It actually has been getting much better as I've been taking it real easy since then. Now I pop two advil at work and I don't have any pain.
If I hadn't done something stupid I'd be in no pain as before but it's gradually returning to normal My feet are starting to hurt more again.
I would swear by the SB like I said I was pain free for 5 years.
About 6 weeks ago I started a cycle. I'm doing 600 mgs of test e weekly and 400 mgs of deca , and armidex 0.5 every other day. I've gained 6lbs and lost like 6 inches from my waist so I assume the test and deca are working. In fact I was doing back today and I realized that my L3 wasn't hurting either. Maybe it's from the deca. I'm actually going to bump up the deca ti 600 mgs a week for my remaining 6 weeks. I use to have joint pain in my hands also and that's all been gone. I don't know if it's from the deca?
The combo of the disc replacement the test e and deca are making me feel like I did in my 30's. At least I'm lifting more and I'm more focused. After this I'm going to go on HGH and 200 mgs of test and see what happens. Oh by the way I'm 46.

[Mr.Akeym]

I'd agree with Dizz80 I'm on perscription test and my back has been killing. Although it could be on account of the close injection to the hip.

[fbcoach]

I've been reading the posts regarding the SB Charite and I'm amazed at what I see. I had this disc placed into my back in 2002, I was in the test study 1 of 200 to get info for the fda to approve. I was in a car accident and I herniated l/5 s/1 and l/3. My doc and me chose to have the l5/s1 replaced. I wanted both but he told me that I would have to go to Germany to have it done as the FDA wouldn't allow 2 disc replacements. Prior to this I had a lamencotmy which made me worse. I use to walk all hunched over. My doc told me that my only restrictions would be I couln't stand or sit more than 8 hours at a time. That never even bothered me. I haven't had any pain in l5/s1 for 5 years. I presently have a job where I am on my feet 5-6 days a week for 6-10 at a time. My feet hurt more than my back, however, about 3 weeks ago, i was intoxicated and I did something, that I can't remember and now I've had some pain. Until then I was pain free at l5/s1, My l3 always hurt but it wasn'y chronic like L5. With this new pain I find it at it's worse when I am on my feet all day and the minute I get off my feet the pain subsides. It actually has been getting much better as I've been taking it real easy since then. Now I pop two advil at work and I don't have any pain.
If I hadn't done something stupid I'd be in no pain as before but it's gradually returning to normal My feet are starting to hurt more again.
I would swear by the SB like I said I was pain free for 5 years.
About 6 weeks ago I started a cycle. I'm doing 600 mgs of test e weekly and 400 mgs of deca , and armidex 0.5 every other day. I've gained 6lbs and lost like 6 inches from my waist so I assume the test and deca are working. In fact I was doing back today and I realized that my L3 wasn't hurting either. Maybe it's from the deca. I'm actually going to bump up the deca ti 600 mgs a week for my remaining 6 weeks. I use to have joint pain in my hands also and that's all been gone. I don't know if it's from the deca?
The combo of the disc replacement the test e and deca are making me feel like I did in my 30's. At least I'm lifting more and I'm more focused. After this I'm going to go on HGH and 200 mgs of test and see what happens. Oh by the way I'm 46.

Pete,
I'm not sure I understand you. You had the lamenectomy in your lumbar spine..right? and continued pain? Then you had the SB Charite (I'm not familiar with that), and you are pretty much pain free?? Does this pretty much sum up your situation?
Here's what bothers me about another surgery. I had the cervical lamenectomy in 92'. They went thru the back, and it was a 12 hour surgery. When I was brought to (woke up) in the recovery room, I was told I couldn't have pain meds for 6 hours because my vital signs were too low. I cannot even begin to explain the amount of pain I was in. Also, about 2 years after my surgery, I had another MRI performed, because I knew there had to be something still wrong with me to be causing chronic pain. They told me I had a little arthritis, but that shouldn't be causing the pain. They just didn't know what cause it, so they told me I had "Myofascial Pain Syndrome". I guess that is linked to Fibromyalgia/chronic fatigue. As I said in an earlier post, I remember one Dr. (dealt with chronic pain) I went to put me on one of the SSRIs, and every bit of my pain was gone. The only problem was I felt very listless and unmotivated, so I had to get off of it.
Anyway, any info would be much appreciated. Just so I explained myself, the problems I am dealing with are chronic pain, fatigue, and probably a low-grade depression due to the pain and fatigue.

[39+1]

rhizotomy? wtf.

Yeah, go look it up BIG boy! I cant hold your hand thru all of this.

Did ya go look it up yet??
No?
what **** are you waiting for?

Its sad when those with such little information start advising others!

[Kratos]

Yeah, go look it up BIG boy! I cant hold your hand thru all of this.

Did ya go look it up yet??
No?
what **** are you waiting for?

Its sad when those with such little information start advising others!

I know what the procedure is and don't need my hand held. Don't be angry. Also, I gave no advise on what procedure would be the correct one or even if the poster is a surgical candidate. You spoke out against TDR and I disagree and believe it to work well for the proper indications.

[39+1]

I know what the procedure is and don't need my hand held. Don't be angry. Also, I gave no advise on what procedure would be the correct one or even if the poster is a surgical candidate. You spoke out against TDR and I disagree and believe it to work well for the proper indications.

I was wondering when you were gonna respond. LQTM, Its cool this was a good chat. Have fun this weekend and happy holidays to you all.

[DrBell]

they stopped doing the prosthetic because the return/side effects was sooooooooooooooooooooo bad nothing like they are getting in europe stay away from manipulation its not good either just read the disability guidlines "wouldnt go there with coricosteriods "this guy is a joke man
again nobody is doing the prosthetic disc. again this guy is a joke,
no chiro bad bad bad, chiro makes no sense and if shit for brains wants to go at it come Mr. Chiro ill eat you up it, Ill put you in a box wiht no windows or doors and your lats defense will be " I HAVE TO PAY MY STUDENT LOANS SOME HOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
(and dont be a shmuck and attack my spelling)

I'm not even going to entertain this. Do you know how much research has been done on chiropractic and how much money they save companies. Chiro gets people back to work more quickly with less cost. Some chiro doesn't know their limits. I do. I just stated that once the disc is blown "ruptured" it would be stupid to try to adjust that segment. It is unstable. The only segments to be adjusted are ones that have subluxation and/or a disc bulge. I don't argue with ignorance. Ignorance = lack of facts. It doesn't mean you are stupid and I would never disrespect a member with name calling. I AM NOT CALLING YOU STUPID. But please do not call chiropractors BS. I help people day in and day out that cannot walk or function and I get them back to doing whatever it is they want to do. Crawl ins welcome!!! I do know my limits and I do refer to a surgeon when necessary. I have yet to hurt anyone and that is why chiropractors have low malpractic insurance. Insurance is based on statistics and since you have a greater chance of being hit by lightening twice in your life than being hurt by me, my insurance is cheap. Medical doctors kill 458K per year. More shampoo bowls kill people than cervical adjustments. I pay $240 per quarter. Compare that to $120K plus per year for MD. My mother is an MD and I am not against them. They have their place and a lot of MD are now getting into acupuncture and referring to ME. LOL Let's close this thread. I was just giving good advice to Karatos.

[lovbyts]

Nothing wrong with a Good chiropractor, just like Dr's there are bad ones, it's up to you to find one that is good. I like mine and only see him once or twice every for months or years.

I herniated L3 & L4 in 1985. Over the years it got worse due to lack of exercise until I could not hardly walk and had surgery in 2005, only regret I have from the surgery is not doing it years earlier. Unfortunately even though i was getting back in shape I over did it and ruptured L5 doing inverted situps cold, no warm up. This time I could not walk, sit or stand. It was the most pain I had ever been in and could do nothing for 2 weeks except lay on the floor and take a LOT of pain meds. Surgery was very successfully but I am still having pain/discomfort 6 months later. Exercise is helping and i hope the HGH helps. I will start Test E soon and hopefully that will help more. Any more suggestions on what to use and what has helped who is appreciated.