pct vs. trt

[iceman1961]

I was just wondering if anyone with a low test level has givin serm therapy a shot first? My test level wasnt really low (450) but of course that was my primarys bloodwork an he didnt do any other tests(free test,estrogen thyroid etc.) I have some clomid on hand and was wondering if tryin maybe 100mg/d for a cpl weeks while waiting for a endo appointment? Anyone else try something like this? Peace ICE

[TBones]

Hey Ice,
Here's something written by a guy who goes by the name Realgains. He's been around the AS boards for years and he is a well respected vet. It's really writen twoards endurance atheletes but it's related to using PCT as a way of upping your test levels. It's interesing and i think there has been discussion on here about these ideas. Check it out.

Copy and pasted...

"Written by Realgains

Guys, for endurance athletes the use of an estrogen blocker alone is a great cycle. 50 of Clomid a day or 20 of nolvadex will double your T levels and put most men right at the very upper limit of "normal" and some above normal.

Not only that but most importantly your T level WILL NOT drop with hard training and believe me T levels drop and sometimes to very low levels with hard training and this really suck for recovery reasons not to mention sex drive reasons.

With hard and or long aerobic training LESS testosterone is produced in ALL MEN and some guys get really really low and so low that they loose all sex drive and obviously have sub par recovery abilty. The decrease in testosterone is thought to be due to reduced
GnRH from the hypothalamus. Estrogen blockers actually INCREASE GnRH release BEYOND normal.

Being high normal, or a bit higher, is great for recovery reasons...and you can train hard more frequently and that means getting better faster and to a higher level. You can also sometimes gets a few more points higher in hematocrit.

Estrogen blockers do not shut down your own test production...they increase it...thus you have no HPTA shut down issues at all.
They mimic lutinizing hormone(LH). LH is a hormone that the pituitary releases in response to GnRH(gonadotropin releasing hormone) form the hypothalamus. LH tells the testes to produce testosterone.

This is how it works....

Both estrogen and testosterone(or any androgen like a steroid ) have a negative, or shutting down impact, on GnRH release from the hypothalamus. So if the body had adequate levels of T cirulating around then little GnRH is released from the hypothalamus...and then little LH is released from the pituitary and then little testosterone is made by the testes. As mentioned estrogen also has an inhibitory affect on GnRH release.

NOTE: Men get estrogen from testosterone aromatization..conversion of T to e.

So too much testosterone or too much estrogen will shut down testosterone production. Anabolic steroids do the same thing.

In a normally functioning HPTA(hypothalmic, pituitary, testicular axis) testosterone and estrogen levels "level out" and result in what we consider "normal" testosterone and estrogen levels in the body.

Clomid and nolvades BLOCK estrogen at the hypothalamus. This tricks the hypothalamus into thinking that estrogen levels are low and thus it sends out more GnRH.....which stimulates the pituitary to release LH....which stimulates the testes to make more T


As mentioned e blockers do not shut down your testes...they make them MORE active!

Estrogen usually doesn't get out of control from the aromatization of the extra T, because T levels don't get crazy high as they would on injections of 200mg of T or more.

Side affects are minimal to none on these blockers. Long term use of nolvadex has been associated with some increase in liver tumors in women who use this drug LONG TERM post breast cancer.
These blockers have "some" minimal impact on the liver but nothing to worry about unless you take them long term like women who use nolva for years on end after breast cancer.
The are not 17aa coated, like oral steroids , so they are not "hard" on the liver.
Clomid has been know to cause mood swings(tearyness) in some people.
A few get hot flashes and headaches..

The main "concern" with Clomid use long term is slightly blurred vision. SOME body builders have experienced this with their post steroid cycle therapy with Clomid for a month but most have not.

You will probably get one side affect....sight acne on the shoulders and back. This is from the higher T level. Some guys get none.
I get lots actually.

I get no sides at all except for acne.


All you need to do is to take 25-50 mg of Clomid or 10-20 mg of nolvadex a day on an empty stomach for best absorption and you'll increase your natural T production.


I got my T to 1100ng/dl last spring and that is way up from my normal 590....above normal..with 20 of nolvadex a day on an empty stomach first thing in the am.

Most men walking around have a T of about 500-700. With endurance training most men have only 60% of the T of a non endurance athlete...this is a fact!.....and not a few get WAY LOWER than this.

Most "studies" on the T raising properties of these blockers has been done on clomid

Yes these blockers are "banned" in cycling, nordic skiing and running."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...=pubmed_DocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...=pubmed_docsum

[iceman1961]

You've been a big help T-bones an I really appreciate it guy! Peace ICE!

[TBones]

no problem. So have you. what comes around, goes around. Thank you!