Need some perspective - please

**GottaGetIt** · 07-24-2008, 11:14 PM

I'm looking for some answers to make life more livable.
I posted this same info at another site and hadn't gotten
any feedback so I thought I'd check with another group
of experts. Compared to me you all are definitely experts.

I've been checking out the site, particularly the forums,
including the stickied posts. Loads of education to be had.

A little background first and then some basic blood results.

I'm 43. Divorced 18 months. Kids.
I have lifted off and on along
with bicycling and other activities for the last 20 years. I'd
probably say more off than on. I got hit by a van while
riding my bicycle a year ago and will be having surgery on
my hip (torn labrum and some impingement issues) in 3
weeks.
I've been on AD Meds for a few years with very little positive
change. I currently take some BP med for slightly elevated BP.
My diet fluctuates but over the last couple of years is way
better than it ever has been, though I did drink alchohol regularly
until recently. Trying to live clean.
I am overweight (5'10" 240#) and seem to have basic signs of gynomastia
(always have - since youth).

My symptoms are:
1. Depression
2. Lack of libido
3. Increased belly fat
4. NO interest in anything really
5. Faulty thought process (I used to be somewhat intelligent)
6. No energy - ready for bed by 8:00pm (dinner or not)

I went to my Doc because I'd like to be off the AD Meds and
have been reading that my symptoms are possibly related
to low test/hormone issues. Not looking for a magic bullet
necessarily but would like to feel like life is worth the effort.

Blood test says:
Test 604 ng/dl 262-1593
TSH, Ultrasensitive 3.347 uIU/ml 0.350-5.500
Cortisol 17.9 ug/dl 4.3-22.4

Unfortunately thats all it says. I guess he only wanted the basics.

Any positive direction? Thanks.

**Pac Man** · 07-24-2008, 11:44 PM

need to get your free testosterone checked, thats the one that counts

**GottaGetIt** · 07-24-2008, 11:54 PM

Thanks for the reply.
I asked him about that prior to getting my bloodwork
and his statement referred to free test being a popular
(on online BB forums) but less important number.
It isn't treated as unimportant here obviously.
Is my math correct in seeing that (if just considering
my overall test) I'm in the lower third according to
my test results?

**Pac Man** · 07-25-2008, 12:08 AM

For your age it's actually pretty good.
I think the free test will help determine whether or not HRT is for you

**GottaGetIt** · 07-25-2008, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by Ironside

For your age it's actually pretty good.
I think the free test will help determine whether or not HRT is for you

Hmm. I'll have to ask him about that next week when I see him.

**zaggahamma** · 07-25-2008, 11:56 AM

i've never seen a range for total test going up to 1500's but since they're using the same measurement (ng/dl) then i guess the range is irrelevant your total test is almost 3 times a lot of ppl that start TRT but also agree with iron....if very little test is freed up then its not doing much good...get the free test and also estrogens (including estradiol) tested....with the gyno signs especially

so... get those scheduled but make sure with a doc that is going to be willing to ** for hormones....find out in advance b4 you waste any more time and effort....and in the meantime work as hard as you can in the gym and on your diet.... i know you mention lack of energy...but just do it...you deserve it....your kids deserve it..and the smokin new wife you'll be bangin soon deserves it

glad you found and like the site...any other questions....lots of great ppl here bro

good luck

**GottaGetIt** · 07-25-2008, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

i've never seen a range for total test going up to 1500's but since they're using the same measurement (ng/dl) then i guess the range is irrelevant your total test is almost 3 times a lot of ppl that start TRT but also agree with iron....if very little test is freed up then its not doing much good...get the free test and also estrogens (including estradiol) tested....with the gyno signs especially

so... get those scheduled but make sure with a doc that is going to be willing to ** for hormones....find out in advance b4 you waste any more time and effort....and in the meantime work as hard as you can in the gym and on your diet.... i know you mention lack of energy...but just do it...you deserve it....your kids deserve it..and the smokin new wife you'll be bangin soon deserves it

glad you found and like the site...any other questions....lots of great ppl here bro

good luck

I'm glad I found the site too.

He's been pretty open to med changes and such and I think he can
understand the symptomatic relationship between what I'm
experiencing and the possible effects.
He's on vacation this week so I'll have to wait till next week to
broach the subject and request additional bloodwork.
Part of what's kept me from the gym/ outdoor activities is the hip
injury from the van/bike accident. I had to hire an attorney who
recommends no "outside" activity that can be used against me
in court if that's where my case goes.
I have been limiting my workouts to what I can do at home with
my bench and dumbells (with the blinds closed - something about
videotaping).
I have noticed many of the HRT/TRT peeps are at a low number
and I wonder if my results have anything to do with the test
process my lab uses. I've wondered how different my results
would be through a lab more representative of hormone replacement
concerns than my insurance/med center sponsored lab.

**jakk9011** · 07-25-2008, 04:39 PM

Wow dude..
I am in a very similar space to you. I had a car accident 4 years ago and divorced 2 years ago.. with 2 young kids. I have very similar symptoms to you as well. My GP won't even test me for hormone problems. I asked him about it and he said that leads down a road to Anabolic steroids which will just trade my problems in for a new set of different ones. I'd love for him to try living with my problems for a while.
Other than that, he has been very good as far as my work and lawsuit goes so I don't just want to tell him to bugger off.
Regarding your test levels, I would say that the lab has little to do with it, Some people seem to need higher test levels than others, you may have low free testosterone , or high estrogen levels. You just need to have the whole labwork done.
Good luck.

**AnabolicBoy1981** · 07-25-2008, 05:02 PM

yeah get that estrogen tested. your total test is 602 which is right around where im at at 27 y/o. But my free test is 175 so its works for me cuz i jerk off three times a day and think about sex all day. estrogen is around 40.
Curious as to what AD meds ur on as u feel u arent as sharp. Depakote can turn some ppl as dumb as pile of bricks. It can also cause a significant amount of weight gain. I dont like antidepressant drugs one bit, except for maybe wellbutrin, since it may act similar to bromocriptine in the body, but thats another story.

**GottaGetIt** · 07-26-2008, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by jakk9011

Wow dude..
I am in a very similar space to you. I had a car accident 4 years ago and divorced 2 years ago.. with 2 young kids. I have very similar symptoms to you as well. My GP won't even test me for hormone problems. I asked him about it and he said that leads down a road to Anabolic steroids which will just trade my problems in for a new set of different ones. I'd love for him to try living with my problems for a while.
Other than that, he has been very good as far as my work and lawsuit goes so I don't just want to tell him to bugger off.
Regarding your test levels, I would say that the lab has little to do with it, Some people seem to need higher test levels than others, you may have low free testosterone , or high estrogen levels. You just need to have the whole labwork done.
Good luck.

Yeah life turns out different than we expect and to have our bodies
react different than expected gives that additional kick when we're down.
I originally thought all my symptoms were related to divorce and all it entails but have kind of determined over the last few months that it might not be "just" depression.
Maybe in your case a secondary Dr. to deal with the hormone issues separate of the other medical issues...

**GottaGetIt** · 07-26-2008, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by AnabolicBoy1981

your total test is 602 which is right around where im at at 27 y/o. But my free test is 175 so its works for me cuz i jerk off three times a day and think about sex all day.

LOL. I can't seem to muster up the interest enough to do it that much a month.
Not at all like I was just a few years ago.

Originally Posted by AnabolicBoy1981

Curious as to what AD meds ur on as u feel u arent as sharp. I dont like antidepressant drugs one bit, except for maybe wellbutrin, since it may act similar to bromocriptine in the body, but thats another story.

Wellbutrin is what I've been taking but that's not the cause of the lack of "sharpness". I do think it's hormonal.

**warchild** · 07-26-2008, 11:17 AM

most docs that know anything about trt, treat the symptoms more than the test levels

**GottaGetIt** · 07-29-2008, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by warchild28

most docs that know anything about trt, treat the symptoms more than the test levels

I'll see on Friday if I need to seek out an aging clinic or if my Doc
will work with me to figure out my problem.

**keith1958** · 07-30-2008, 04:44 AM

Check the meds your doing BP meds are known to cause some of the symptoms you are having. Like other have said you need your estrogen and Free checked. Sounds like the doctor doesn't know a lot about hormnones which is normal for most. He sounds like a good doctor , so keep doing research and educate him along the way.

**GottaGetIt** · 07-30-2008, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by keith1958

Check the meds your doing BP meds are known to cause some of the symptoms you are having. Like other have said you need your estrogen and Free checked. Sounds like the doctor doesn't know a lot about hormnones which is normal for most. He sounds like a good doctor , so keep doing research and educate him along the way.

Thanks

**GottaGetIt** · 08-01-2008, 08:09 PM

Saw the Doc today and he stands by the "firmly withing standard range" thinking about my Test score of 604 in a 262-1593 range (the lab they use).
I clarified my position and symptoms and he stated that there are no substantiated results that prove Test is beneficial more than harmful when in normal range. He says he "unwilling to experiment" and there must be other reasons for my depression, non existent libido et al.
He did state that when the antidepressents that I quit taking a couple weeks ago are out of my system (in another month) he'd be willing to do a Free Test screen and reevaluate my BP med. (already a low dosage)
What next? Any wisdom and experience? I'm tempted to ask to see a urologist if there's any chance that may help.
I'm not hell bent on being on roids. What I want is a better quality of life and to feel like my normal (manly) self.

**whiteowl** · 08-02-2008, 09:45 PM

hey gotta-man,

well within limits albeit the low side may not be where you spent your life....you are actually in the bottom third....your symptoms are spot on for low test....it is not like the normal range is 150-200. You may have spent your life at 1100....my advice is get a second opinion....

**GottaGetIt** · 08-02-2008, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by whiteowl

hey gotta-man,

well within limits albeit the low side may not be where you spent your life....you are actually in the bottom third....your symptoms are spot on for low test....it is not like the normal range is 150-200. You may have spent your life at 1100....my advice is get a second opinion....

Yeah I mentioned being towards the bottom and Doc said "still in limits".
I used to be "always" interested in sex. I still look but have no interest otherwise. I have really cleaned up my diet yet get fatter around the middle.
I have 4 kids so I know the system worked at one point.
The reason I stopped at it being a hormonal thing was my symptoms and the fact the other "cures" didn't help.
I'm thinking I may consult an anti aging clinic. Maybe Dr. Crisler.....

**zaggahamma** · 08-03-2008, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by GottaGetIt

Yeah I mentioned being towards the bottom and Doc said "still in limits".
I used to be "always" interested in sex. I still look but have no interest otherwise. I have really cleaned up my diet yet get fatter around the middle.
I have 4 kids so I know the system worked at one point.
The reason I stopped at it being a hormonal thing was my symptoms and the fact the other "cures" didn't help.
I'm thinking I may consult an anti aging clinic. Maybe Dr. Crisler.....

your closing sentence is a great idea, imho...good luck

**GottaGetIt** · 08-03-2008, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

your closing sentence is a great idea, imho...good luck

Thanks.

**tgts** · 08-19-2008, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by GottaGetIt

I'm not hell bent on being on roids. What I want is a better quality of life and to feel like my normal (manly) self.

I dont know if this would apply, since you came to a steriod board and all, but normally when I get depressed or feel anxiety its generally because my life has become stagnent and I am unsure of how to turn things around.

Maybe you would begin to feel better if you got involved in some aspect of team sports or even individual sports such as wrestling, bjj, or judo, something low impact that you can ease your way into without re-injuring yourself. Generally involving yourself in team sports or a martial art/form of self defence will definitely make you feel "manly".

While hormone therapy sounds like it would be a great way to supplement your feeling better physically, you still have to face other causes for your depression. I mean you may be built like Arnold but that wont help you deal with your divorce or the growing divide between you and your children.

If I was in that position I think I would try to seek out someone who could help me re-organize my life or to help me identify what I feel might be missing out on, or if I know what I am missing out on then I would seek advice on different ways to connect with what I am missing.

That is the end of my speal, once again I could be way out in left field on this one, and maybe hormone therapy/steroids are the only things you wanted advice on here, however this is just something to consider!!

Either way, best of luck to you and I hope you begin to feel better soon!

**GottaGetIt** · 08-19-2008, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by tgts

I dont know if this would apply, since you came to a steriod board and all, but normally when I get depressed or feel anxiety its generally because my life has become stagnent and I am unsure of how to turn things around.

Maybe you would begin to feel better if you got involved in some aspect of team sports or even individual sports such as wrestling, bjj, or judo, something low impact that you can ease your way into without re-injuring yourself. Generally involving yourself in team sports or a martial art/form of self defence will definitely make you feel "manly".

While hormone therapy sounds like it would be a great way to supplement your feeling better physically, you still have to face other causes for your depression. I mean you may be built like Arnold but that wont help you deal with your divorce or the growing divide between you and your children.

If I was in that position I think I would try to seek out someone who could help me re-organize my life or to help me identify what I feel might be missing out on, or if I know what I am missing out on then I would seek advice on different ways to connect with what I am missing.

That is the end of my speal, once again I could be way out in left field on this one, and maybe hormone therapy/steroids are the only things you wanted advice on here, however this is just something to consider!!

Either way, best of luck to you and I hope you begin to feel better soon!

Great Input. Thanks.
I certainly need to "deal" with a lot of issues in my life and true I wouldn't be on a steroid site if I had no interest in them to some extent.
My priority is making me better and at this point that is focused on my
male/sexual/physical side. That area(s) really effect my mental/emotional outlook and also how I "act out". I want to feel better/feel better about myself and I can relate to how my symptoms relate to a hormonal imbalance.
I can also see the other areas that affect the "bigger picture".
I'm not a team sports kinda guy. More like surfing, skating and bicycling.
Being physical does increase the manliness factor but with whatever is affecting my outlook I have 0 desire for anything. No sports, no sex etc.
I used to scuba dive, motorcycle in addidition to the other activities I mentioned and did feel masculine.

**zaggahamma** · 08-19-2008, 06:48 PM

almost a month bro....update...you out there pokin 'round?

**GottaGetIt** · 08-19-2008, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

almost a month bro....update...you out there pokin 'round?

I found a local doc to see after no immediate success with my regular doc.
I just had surgery a few days ago so at this point I'm having to hang tight
until I heal up (can walk again) until I go to see the Life Extension Doc.
It'll probably be the better part of a month. Kind of don't want to complicate
much more right now. On the other hand I am having to self inject a blood thinner so when it comes to hrt I'll be better prepared in that respect.