1st time here. lab results

**4347true** · 08-12-2008, 01:43 PM

First time here 30 years old never done steroids before. not to egar to be on trt or hrt for ever but also not wanting to feel like shit for ever either. My dr didnt know much about this but must have seen concern to send me to the urologicaldr. testosterone was 306 range is 241-827 ng/dl free test(direct ) was 11.0 rangge is 8.7-25.1 pg/ml. Not to sure about second number if that is bad or not. i go to the euro dr. on thur. I work out a lot it always seems hard to get results. ( been in gym 10 years I have a good idea of what i am doing) . I just dont have the drive i used to. I have read a lot on here about trt thats what made me go to the dr. in the first place . I was blown away when they actually came back low. Let me know about the numbers if anyone can thanks.

**natureboy** · 08-12-2008, 02:22 PM

When you go to the uro he will check some bloodwork, and based on the results he may start you on hormone replacement, or he will send you to endo. The endo will do some test and an MRI to check your pituitary gland for tumors, if that checks out, then he may start you on hrt.

That's if they treat you at all, you are not out of range on either total or free test. They may just put you on some HCG an call it a day.

Do you have low-t symptoms, you said you were suprised when they came back low.

**4347true** · 08-12-2008, 02:42 PM

i guess i was not suprised i feel tired all the time. not to much problems in the rack . I guess i just figured i would be closer to normal since i have never done any steroids in the past. i guess symptom wise I feel a lot older than 30 or a lot worse than when i was 25

**natureboy** · 08-12-2008, 04:12 PM

So what brought you to this site?

Have you used any off the shelf supps to try an get results at the gym?

**4347true** · 08-12-2008, 05:12 PM

protien. I have allways wanted to do a cycle but there has allways been a greater reason not to , having kids , wife, time job. scared. age. So i have been going threw a lot of stress last couple of months . But i am not one to say quick let me get some zoloft or depression meds. So driving to work feeling like a big turd i heard a add on the radio about a anti aging dr. they described similar symptoms. long story short i called they said come on in its $250 for first visit (blood work ). then if you need a priscription they would write one for some cream. So i googled some of the creams she had talked about and here i am.. But i have insurance and a understanding dr. so i went there and paid $15 instead of $250 he said looks low but thats not my thing. so he sent me to an to a uro. And after reading on this site for a long time it sounds like injectible test is the way to go. I just want to feel good again. thanks for the help

**natureboy** · 08-12-2008, 07:19 PM

Ok, well like I said before you will go to Uro he's going to run his own test to check some different hormones. U might get some from him chances r u gotta go to an Endo. Good luck trying to figure it out.

**zaggahamma** · 08-12-2008, 08:12 PM

you did the right thing following up on that ad and then using your own doc to save money
so you're getting the musical doc dance (not unusual)

kidding aside....you did the right thing by checking things out and having insurance is great....you'll learn a lot hear as well

good luck and welcome

**bobby.average.joe** · 08-12-2008, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by 4347true

protien. I have allways wanted to do a cycle but there has allways been a greater reason not to , having kids , wife, time job. scared. age. So i have been going threw a lot of stress last couple of months . But i am not one to say quick let me get some zoloft or depression meds. So driving to work feeling like a big turd i heard a add on the radio about a anti aging dr. they described similar symptoms. long story short i called they said come on in its $250 for first visit (blood work ). then if you need a priscription they would write one for some cream. So i googled some of the creams she had talked about and here i am.. But i have insurance and a understanding dr. so i went there and paid $15 instead of $250 he said looks low but thats not my thing. so he sent me to an to a uro. And after reading on this site for a long time it sounds like injectible test is the way to go. I just want to feel good again. thanks for the help

I found myself in the exact situation. . . . .

I have had the same Internist for fifteen years. I went to him and excitedly told him that I thought I had discovered what "has been wrong with me" for the past five years!

When I told him I wanted my Test levels checked, he told me that wasn't the likely problem and offered me a more (stronger) antidepressant!

But I insisted on the blood work and he reluctantly agreed. My total Test level came back at 117; he still wasn't convinced! He had me to come in at the same time of day for 3 consecutive days and the "average" was still below 130!

His advise? Come back in 3 months and he would check it again!!!

After my experience and those I read on this forum; I am simply amazed at the resistance to male HRT! Woman are given hormones like candy and I am supposed to continue living in Hell for three more months?

I obviously "moved on" and have been on TRT for about 5 weeks now. I just assumed a 40 yo man was supposed to completely fall apart; but now, I haven't felt this good, this healthy, for years and years!

Although I have hit a small bump related to not knowing the correct way to inject (see earlier posts from me for that story!); it has been more than worth the effort to get on TRT!

Keep at it until you find someone to help you!

Good luck!

**4347true** · 08-13-2008, 12:30 PM

thanks for the help i ll keep everyone posted on my next appt. thannks

**zaggahamma** · 08-13-2008, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by bobby.average.joe

I found myself in the exact situation. . . . .

I have had the same Internist for fifteen years. I went to him and excitedly told him that I thought I had discovered what "has been wrong with me" for the past five years!

When I told him I wanted my Test levels checked, he told me that wasn't the likely problem and offered me a more (stronger) antidepressant!

But I insisted on the blood work and he reluctantly agreed. My total Test level came back at 117; he still wasn't convinced! He had me to come in at the same time of day for 3 consecutive days and the "average" was still below 130!

His advise? Come back in 3 months and he would check it again!!!
After my experience and those I read on this forum; I am simply amazed at the resistance to male HRT! Woman are given hormones like candy and I am supposed to continue living in Hell for three more months?

I obviously "moved on" and have been on TRT for about 5 weeks now. I just assumed a 40 yo man was supposed to completely fall apart; but now, I haven't felt this good, this healthy, for years and years!

Although I have hit a small bump related to not knowing the correct way to inject (see earlier posts from me for that story!); it has been more than worth the effort to get on TRT!

Keep at it until you find someone to help you!

Good luck!

wut a fuktard

**warchild** · 08-13-2008, 06:45 PM

stupid docs. find another doc asap

**4347true** · 08-15-2008, 08:47 AM

went last night to uro. he looked at my nuts and said everything looked fine. And ordered more blood work. He didnt sound against some form of testosterone , but he had mentioned possibly trying to get me from 306 to 500 I didnt argue at this point. ( i wanted to say why so i can feel like a 50 year old)! I figured i would wait and see what next blood work looks like. I guess if i feel good at 500 i am ok with that. I know 306 is not rock bottom but i still feel like shit. Ill keep it posted. next appt. aug 29 08 long wait. oh he also wanted me to go early in the morning like at 7 am. even though last time i went it was 10 am. ??

**zaggahamma** · 08-15-2008, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by 4347true

went last night to uro. he looked at my nuts and said everything looked fine. And ordered more blood work. He didnt sound against some form of testosterone, but he had mentioned possibly trying to get me from 306 to 500 I didnt argue at this point. ( i wanted to say why so i can feel like a 50 year old)! I figured i would wait and see what next blood work looks like. I guess if i feel good at 500 i am ok with that. I know 306 is not rock bottom but i still feel like shit. Ill keep it posted. next appt. aug 29 08 long wait. oh he also wanted me to go early in the morning like at 7 am. even though last time i went it was 10 am. ??

yeh..your first test should have been earlier than 10am as well...usually when the lab opens 7/8 am as test levels are at their highest when you first awaken. you could be at 500 already

**peter2008** · 08-23-2008, 12:37 PM

my doctor checks blood at 9, does that mean if i wake up at 8 ( because i live down the road) that the levels will be false?

**zaggahamma** · 08-23-2008, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by peter2008

my doctor checks blood at 9, does that mean if i wake up at 8 ( because i live down the road) that the levels will be false?

no...that's going to be ok...u wake at 8...test at 9 ...... it's not like they can let you spend the night and then right when you wake up get your blood...
you'll have an accurate test

**peter2008** · 08-23-2008, 12:56 PM

and if I stay up late, or drink the night before, would that affect my testostreone levels the next morning?

**zaggahamma** · 08-23-2008, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by peter2008

and if I stay up late, or drink the night before, would that affect my testostreone levels the next morning?

that's what i've heard...but no personal experience with that.....r u trying to get a false reading? i've never had to do that

**peter2008** · 08-23-2008, 04:06 PM

no im trying to get very accurate results and want to do things by the book thanks for the information

**Ntpadude** · 08-24-2008, 04:22 AM

Originally Posted by peter2008

and if I stay up late, or drink the night before, would that affect my testostreone levels the next morning?

Dont forget the dramatic drop you'd get in your test if you set the alarm and got up at 4 AM with only 4 hours sleep that morning... and then just before going to docs office go and rub one off in the bathroom as an orgasm has a way of plunging your testosterone levels for a few hours afterwards. But none of us would want to drop our test levels, oh like 50 points before getting tested for testosterone levels would we??? I mean if you are border line like usually anything below 300 testosterone generally qualifies you and you are testing out only 306. Only way you'd really find out if more testosterone would help u is to try taking more testosterone for a while and see. Watch out, it sometimes takes being on the shots or androgel at least a good 2 months to get results you are looking for so dont be impatient. The male body is slow to reacte to a moderate increase in testosterone.

**binder** · 08-24-2008, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by Ntpadude

and then just before going to docs office go and rub one off in the bathroom as an orgasm has a way of plunging your testosterone levels for a few hours afterwards.

there is no scientific evidence showing this. research and testing shows there is no change in testosterone levels of multiple different animals tested with control groups post ejaculation. Semen production and excretion has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with testosterone levels. Stop thinking that testosterone is what comes out of your penis because it doesn't. Here is one of many research experiments done to prove this. So argue your theories all you want, here is scientific experiment.

Plasma levels of testosterone (T), luteinizing hormone (LH), and cortisol were measured in 10 adult male rhesus monkeys before and shortly after coitus. Mean levels of T and LH did not increase significantly after coitus or in control (no ejaculation) tests, but cortisol levels did in both cases. In 10 different males, no significant change was found in the plasma levels of T after electroejaculation; but in control tests (electric current withheld), the mean level of T was significantly lower at 80 and 140 min, but not at 50 min, after the test. According to present evidence, the effect of ejaculation on T levels differs in primate and nonprimate species. The effects on T levels produced by living with sexually receptive female rhesus monkeys may differ from those produced by intimate but brief contact with them.

Ref: Effects of ejaculation on levels of testosterone , cortisol, and luteinizing hormone in peripheral plasma of rhesus monkeys. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/402399

**4347true** · 08-29-2008, 11:16 AM

well i just got my results from my uro, they are lower now. testosterone 284, free test, 11.7 LH miu/ml 3.2 . Just when i thaught this guy new what he was doing. He seemed stumped. So he is going to send me to a Endo. This is taking a lot of co pays and time. I think i am starting to believe i have low test. and am starting to look foward to the day I can get some test. And start feeling good again. Who knows when i can get into the endo, they made it sound like it was going to take awhile. Does anyone know what the 3.2 miu/ml means? Thanks for all the help. Also why would i have all symptoms of low test except my dick works fine? even morning wood?

**zaggahamma** · 08-29-2008, 11:45 AM

be greatful you only have to pay copays..sorry dont know the miu/ml measurement... maybe if you call around you can get a appt. pretty soon and also ask if you can call occasionally and ask if there is a cancellation or if they could call you if someone cancels...i was proactive in my campaign to get what i wanted and you have to...the docs are getting paid wether you get better or not....that's why i do my own research and the doc works for me...you've got to ask all questions while your with him...its what he's getting paid for like the measurement you dont know about...
the morning wood? well good ...the endocrine system is a very complex system....but you've tested low twice and the endo will probably test one more time...most of us here invested that many visits and maybe then some...you're getting close....bring your questions, concerns, and desires with you on your next appt.
and good luck
keep us posted

**4347true** · 08-29-2008, 11:53 AM

thanks for the advice also forgot to mention 2.8 miu/ml for fsh what ever that is . I have seen all of the stats for test results on this forum,but now that there are four of them i dont know what is low and what is high and why? what i mean is fsh 2.8 miu/ml, LH 3.2 miu/ml and 284 test and 11.7 free test?
What i mean is 284 is the only number i understand. even after reading the post on reading results.

**binder** · 08-30-2008, 10:54 AM

fsh: folicular stimulating hormone
LH: leutinizing hormone

miu/mL is milli-insulin units per milliliters. it can also be used as "international units". I generally say insulin units but i think the accepted way is international units. It's used mostly with dosing insulin.

284 test is total test. total test in your system. This is also time dependant and dependent on many variables such as diet, recent exercise, pituitary health. The list goes on and on. It's higher in the morning because the human body replenishes testosterone during periods of rest. To get an accurate total testosterone it should be done through saliva and 3 times during a person's waking hours to display an average over your waking hours in a histogram.

free testosterone is the amount of testosterone that is not bonding and free in the body to be used at that point in time. You could draw it, then redraw it 10 minutes later and get totally different numbers. Again, tons of variables. It is not often used diagnostically, but included because there can be reasons to use it when comparing anomalies in other bloodwork.

if 241-827 is the range given by the lab then your 284 isn't low. just because it's low in that range doesn't mean it's low. Many factors effect this. It's also patient dependent. If you've never been checked before you would never know if 284 is actually low for you. that could be the amount your body has produced all your life. Just because another person produces 700 does not mean they have "high" testosterone. That's just their natural production. There is a range because people are different. If the average height of a male is 5'9" and you're 5'5" you wouldn't let your doctor tell you that something is wrong with you because you're not what they call the "average" height for a person would you? probably not. It's just variations in your body. The doctor will probably want to check into other areas to see if there is a hormone problem creating your symptoms. There are many things that give symptoms you describe. Those are actually "basic" symptoms but since most of the people on here think instantly they should get hormone replacement they want to think it's low testosterone . Diet, environmental factors, disease process, stress, psychological wellness all can play a part in it. You'd be surprised how much better one can feel with just a change in diet. Most bodybuilders (myself included) have noted an increased feeling of wellness with the clean diets we go on. Not the harsh cut diets, but just the clean diets. It made a huge improvement in my quality of life as it did in bodybuilders i work out with.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying it ISN'T a hormonal problem I'm just saying there are so many things that produce those symptoms don't get too bent out of shape if the doctor wants to explore other routes.

**4347true** · 09-02-2008, 06:50 AM

Thank you for your reply and answers. I am sure you are correct about diet and exercise, i believe that diet and exercise is most of everyones problem. I just know at this point i dont feel good. And as far as that scale goes ( 241-829) it is very vague. And if I was 5'5" and I could get a shot once a week to make me 6'2" i damn sure would. Fourtunatly that is not the problem. I feel like the guy that cant get a job because he doesnt have experience, where do you get the experience? Thats how i feel about the motivation, where do i get the motivation. to do anything. I hope that makes since.

**zaggahamma** · 09-02-2008, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by 4347true

Thank you for your reply and answers. I am sure you are correct about diet and exercise, i believe that diet and exercise is most of everyones problem. I just know at this point i dont feel good. And as far as that scale goes ( 241-829) it is very vague. And if I was 5'5" and I could get a shot once a week to make me 6'2" i damn sure would. Fourtunatly that is not the problem. I feel like the guy that cant get a job because he doesnt have experience, where do you get the experience? Thats how i feel about the motivation, where do i get the motivation. to do anything. I hope that makes since.

Inspiration

**FallenWyvern** · 09-02-2008, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by 4347true

Thank you for your reply and answers. I am sure you are correct about diet and exercise, i believe that diet and exercise is most of everyones problem. I just know at this point i dont feel good. And as far as that scale goes ( 241-829) it is very vague. And if I was 5'5" and I could get a shot once a week to make me 6'2" i damn sure would. Fourtunatly that is not the problem. I feel like the guy that cant get a job because he doesnt have experience, where do you get the experience? Thats how i feel about the motivation, where do i get the motivation. to do anything. I hope that makes since.

I felt like crap at 270 and like god at 820.

**binder** · 09-02-2008, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by 4347true

Thank you for your reply and answers. I am sure you are correct about diet and exercise, i believe that diet and exercise is most of everyones problem. I just know at this point i dont feel good. And as far as that scale goes ( 241-829) it is very vague. And if I was 5'5" and I could get a shot once a week to make me 6'2" i damn sure would. Fourtunatly that is not the problem. I feel like the guy that cant get a job because he doesnt have experience, where do you get the experience? Thats how i feel about the motivation, where do i get the motivation. to do anything. I hope that makes since.

Ranges are to fit an entire populas. That's why there is a range. If you've never had a baseline then you never know if your levels are low or depressed from normal.

It very well could be your test levels. I would discuss all options with your doctor before going onto hormone replacement therapy. And if you just want to use testosterone to get stronger or to build, buy some and use it smartly.

**4347true** · 09-03-2008, 11:25 AM

I dont beleive my normal level is 284 because i didnt feel like crap 6months ago or before that. I am not just prusing hrt. If the dr. says hcg to get levels up i am all for that rather than a life time of hrt. Or maybe there is somthing else. Bad news to day i called the endo to try in get a appt. they said they are not taking new clients, and it would be march before i could get in. I am looking around for another one. I also have called the uro and left a mess. I think he knew i would not be able to get in there, because he said he would see me back in a couple of months, i wondered why i would go back to him for anything if he referred me to a endo. Sure is hard to see the correct people. Now i Know why people always bitch fabout the health care system, its almost funny. Also if 284 is my normal level I dont wont to be normal.

**zaggahamma** · 09-03-2008, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by 4347true

I dont beleive my normal level is 284 because i didnt feel like crap 6months ago or before that. I am not just prusing hrt. If the dr. says hcg to get levels up i am all for that rather than a life time of hrt. Or maybe there is somthing else. Bad news to day i called the endo to try in get a appt. they said they are not taking new clients, and it would be march before i could get in. I am looking around for another one. I also have called the uro and left a mess. I think he knew i would not be able to get in there, because he said he would see me back in a couple of months, i wondered why i would go back to him for anything if he referred me to a endo. Sure is hard to see the correct people. Now i Know why people always bitch fabout the health care system, its almost funny. Also if 284 is my normal level I dont wont to be normal.

imo...your uro shouldnt have seen you and order bloodwork if he wasnt prepared to treat you when the results came back....now two doctors have been paid and there's no needle marks in your as$

**FallenWyvern** · 09-03-2008, 11:06 PM

http://www.andropause.com/

**4347true** · 09-05-2008, 12:44 PM

wow, that girl in your post pic is smokin.. But any way I called the uro and talked to the nurse, I told her to have the dr. please write a script. for injectible test. I told her i dont want the creams, ( just because i dont). She said ok. I will see how this goes. I am sick of them sending me all over, and i am not waiting till november. well anyway i will keep u posted. oh yea what am i suposed to do at andropause .com ? will they write a script with blood work?

**Peducho0113** · 09-05-2008, 02:01 PM

I totally understand how you feel, I have been feeling the same way for about four years now and I hate it because I know that there is something wrong and I feel that I am missing out in life just because a doctor thinks I am too young I am 27 total test 452. I think that the range they go by is horrible because they totally ignore the symtoms and go based on the range to what I care a 65 year old guy can have the same test results as me and that would be good for the doctor

**binder** · 09-06-2008, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Peducho0113

I totally understand how you feel, I have been feeling the same way for about four years now and I hate it because I know that there is something wrong and I feel that I am missing out in life just because a doctor thinks I am too young I am 27 total test 452. I think that the range they go by is horrible because they totally ignore the symtoms and go based on the range to what I care a 65 year old guy can have the same test results as me and that would be good for the doctor

you know why? because there are THOUSANDS of things that cause the same exact symptoms of low test. That's why. That's why doctors run tests. The onset of most cancers of the endocrine system have those exact symptoms...how do you know you don't have that? how do you know you don't have a chemical imbalance in your brain? YOU DON'T!

That's like saying there is only 1 reason and cure for pain in the abdomen when in reality there are so many things that can go wrong for abdomen pain it's a huge journey. Basing treatment on 1 common practice is a narrow minded way to practice medicine and is a problem with our system right now. A more homeopathic approach to problems will better treat a person and ends up with the person taking less drugs and less invasive procedures that aren't necessary.

If everything was as easy as "oh you have blurred vision, there is only one thing that causes that so here you go" then medical school would be an associates degree and doctors wouldn't spend most of their careers in seminars learning new disease process.

**4347true** · 09-08-2008, 05:10 PM

I agree, I was just frustrated that i was sent some where i couldnt be seen for months. I would hate to treat somthing I dont really have. But 284 is a low. So I got my first injection today! I told him i didnt want to do creams, so he gave me my first shot to day and i go back in two weeks to get another one, then 2 weeks later blood work to see were my levels are. They gave me 400 mg test c. I thaught that seemed high but i had already gave my two cents, and didnt want to seem like i knew to much. I have learned a lot from this forum. Well thanks for reading and i will keep everyone posted.

**Pac Man** · 09-08-2008, 05:56 PM

Damn 400, every 2 weeks is pretty sweet. My doc has me at 150 every 2 weeks now, sucks but whatever. Glad to see you're getting good treatment, you should see some great results with that.

**THORSZ** · 09-08-2008, 07:40 PM

400 EOW is sweet. You are going to feel like a 15 year old. I can't imagine he will keep you there because you are going to have pretty high levels. Good for you though. I'd rather work my down anyway.

**4347true** · 09-09-2008, 06:55 AM

I am sure when i get blood work done and my levels are to high he will bring it down. I just want to feel good. I dont want to be on a unhealthy dose. I would like to keep my hair.