18 yo bloodwork

**FuPayMe** · 08-25-2008, 09:56 PM

First of all the doc lied, i told him i wanted to test Free test because i saw him only check total testosterone . he said with a look on his face like he got called out " oh they test both blah blah ". Anyway, everything came back "normal". Total testosterone is 358 (there is no reference range for testosterone here for some reason) which he says is high normal. Im 18, is 358 high normal for me?

I also got a cbc, comp metabolic panel, and tsh tested. TSH was pretty low, 1.74 on a range from 0.50-4.30. I can post my full blood work if anyones interested.

Oh yeah, the test was done around noon, but i woke up like an hour before so it was morning for me.

What should i do? Im not eligible for anything now am i? I dont want to continue feeling like shit. Help!

**stallion_1** · 08-25-2008, 10:03 PM

im sorry to hear ur situation bro. i hate our healtcare system because u have to be practically dying before the ****ing morons do something. also since the damn government breathes down the doctors' neck, theyre hesitant bout prescribing medicines that are not nicely looked upon. sometimes u gotta take matters into ur own hands. if i definitively knew that there was a problem with my test, id buy me some testosterone in the black market and hcg to get my test back to normal.

**FuPayMe** · 08-25-2008, 10:15 PM

any other thoughts? Stallion i do have a source or two, and of course would run proper pct and hcg , but wouldnt that lower my already low levels after pct?

**warchild** · 08-25-2008, 10:16 PM

go see another doc and try hcg before test

**FuPayMe** · 08-25-2008, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by warchild28

go see another doc and try hcg before test

is my test low for my age? I have a follow up appt and the dicks gonna try to put me on AD's, but theres a TRT/HRT floor in the same building. Should i go to a whole new facility, or see whats up with the TRT center?

**warchild** · 08-25-2008, 10:43 PM

trt is lifetime, do you want to make that commitment and risk not having kids? try hcg to stimulate your natural test. If you dont care, like me, try to get test injections

**warchild** · 08-25-2008, 10:43 PM

yes its low.range is 400-1200 or so

**FuPayMe** · 08-25-2008, 10:47 PM

Bro i would rather try hcg first, but believe me if i had the choice id jump on the shots real fast. After i went to the sperm bank.

Isnt 358 low as hell for my age? I really dont want to get on paxil or prozac or any of the sort

**FuPayMe** · 08-25-2008, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by warchild28

yes its low.range is 400-1200 or so

this dumb prick doc said it was high normal, yet he didnt put a reference range. Theres a reference range on every other test, except testosterone . Is fupayme gonna have to choke a bitch?

**warchild** · 08-25-2008, 10:55 PM

docs treat symptoms over the low test

**warchild** · 08-25-2008, 10:59 PM

choke a bitch

**FuPayMe** · 08-25-2008, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by warchild28

docs treat symptoms over the low test

so youre saying most docs would try to get me on Anti depressants

**THORSZ** · 08-26-2008, 07:45 AM

I would request a copy of the test. You paid for it and you are allowed to have a copy. Not sure what range he is using, but I don't know of any lab that would consider that normal. Go get a second opion or ask to be referred to an endo too. At your age, I would try to avoid test if possible. Good luck-hope you feel better

**FullMoonHowlingWolf** · 08-26-2008, 07:59 PM

Just like Thorsz stated, at your age you don't want use Test unless you have no other choices. After you turn 21 then you should consider using gear (research using steroids before 21). There's a nice video on this site you can watch.

You mentioned that you could post your blood test results, please do so. What lab were you tested at? What's been going on in your life? I would go see another doc ASAP. See as many docs until you are satisfied with how you are being treated and have some answers. The doc works for you.

**zaggahamma** · 08-26-2008, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by FullMoonHowlingWolf

Just like Thorsz stated, at your age you don't want use Test unless you have no other choices. After you turn 21 then you should consider using gear (research using steroids before 21). There's a nice video on this site you can watch.

You mentioned that you could post your blood test results, please do so. What lab were you tested at? What's been going on in your life? I would go see another doc ASAP. See as many docs until you are satisfied with how you are being treated and have some answers. The doc works for you.

i agree with wolf and thorz and especially puttin the kybosh on the doc because he's trying to play you
keep us posted
also when you post up your blood work please list your stats (bf%, diet, any meds you're on, any past steroid use , etc.)

**FuPayMe** · 08-27-2008, 02:44 AM

Quest Diagnostics

Comprehensive Metabolic Panel w/ egfr:

glucose 89, 65-99

urea nitrogen (bun) 11. 7-20

Creatinine 0.99, 0.50-1.30
Bun/creatinine values are not reported when the bun and creatinine values are within normal limits.

Sodium 142, 135-146

Potassium 4.5, 3.8-5.1

Chloride 106, 98-110

Carbon dioxide 29, 21-33

Calcium 9.9, 8.9-10.4

Total Protein 6.9, 6.3-8.2

Albumin 4.7, 3.6-5.1

Globulin 2.2, 2.1-3.5(calc)

Albumin/globulin ratio 2.1, 1.0-2.1(calc)

Total Bilirubin 0.5, 0.2-1.1

Alkaline Phoshatase 81, 48-230

AST 14, 12-32

ALT 15, 8-46

CBC

White Blood Cell Count 5.2, 4.5-13

Red Blood Cell Count 5.31, 4.10-5.70

Hemoglobin 16.1, 12.0-16.9

Hematocrit 47.2, 36-49

MCV 88.9, 78-98

MCH 30.3, 25-35

MCHC 34.1, 31-36

RDW 12.8, 11-15

Platelet Count 179, 140-400

Absolute Neutrophils 2829, 1800-8000

Absolute Lymphocytes 1674, 12-5200

Absolute Monocytes 400, 200-900

Absolute Eosinophils 276, 15-500

Absolute Basophils 21, 0-200

Neutrophils 54.4, % (?)

Lymphocytes 32.2, % (?)

Monocytes 7.7, % (?)

Eosinophilps 5.3, % (?)

Basophils 0.4, %

TOTAL TESTOSTERONE

358 (it says in range) yet there is no reference range for testosterone. The doc wrote in the mailing it was in the high normal range. I call BS on the high normal range, my research says thats low as shit, especially for my age. Didnt test free, after i asked specifically for free test.

3rd Gen. TSH 1.74, 0.50-4.30

Bodyfat:idk, 6"2, 165-170(a little muscle, forearms are cut and have a little six pack, my body is capable of an 8 pack. Veins in biceps during workouts.
Diet:i just eat when i can, im on the go alot, eat a lot, when i can, consider it like a dirty bulk. Oh, i do drink beer.
Meds: NO MEDS! I had asthma when i was young, carried a puffer during high school football bootcamp, more of a mental thing. Other than that, turned em down, wanted to get all options before taking drugs docs get rich off of.
Past steroid use : Never cycled, only sups taken ever are a weight gainer/protein shake, creatine a little, and zma.
Been lifting since 13, got serious about a year ago, was consistent for a few months, then depression got the upper hand. I couldnt eat shit, couldnt lift worth shit, there were times i sat crying in between bench press sets, got sad fast as hell, didnt see any enjoyment in life anymore, self esteem went to shit, etc etc etc. I was able to control most of this after a little time, but not all of it.

I scheduled a followup appointment this week

**zaggahamma** · 08-27-2008, 08:47 AM

fu....yes....very strange that quest didnt include the ref range for your total test....but all of us here know the range in ng/dl is around 275-1000 maybe some ranges go even up to 1500....but the low end is usually just under 300 and this includes test levels for ages of men 18-60..something like that and someone your age is usually more toward the upper
first of all you need to do a few more blood tests and try to get a good nite sleep and go to bed early and get your eight and got straight to test.....then after that if still low...doc's gonna need to check your pituitary to see if the reason could be a problem there....you've got to demand all these answers in your next appointment?
btw...what is the reason you thought you needed to check for test level(s)? Are you having trouble adding mass?

**binder** · 08-27-2008, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by FuPayMe

this dumb prick doc said it was high normal, yet he didnt put a reference range. Theres a reference range on every other test, except testosterone. Is fupayme gonna have to choke a bitch?

calm down young angry teen. It depends on a lot of things. The range depends on each lab, it also depends on what units they measured it in.

quit talking hard like you know more than your doctor. your thyroid being just below the median (.5-4.00 puts the median about 2ish) means you are pretty normal. There are ranges because it can go up and down due to many variables for each person. Maybe that day you're 1.7 because of something you did, the day before maybe you were around 2.8 because of things that happened and the physiology of your body.

What would you doctor gain by not sending you to an HRT specialist? Probably nothing. Same thing he would gain from writing you a script for an anti-depressant. Either way he's not getting anything in return so there is'nt one more beneficial for him than the other.

There are many other things that can go wrong with the body that causes you to be tired and all your other symptoms. I don't understand why people that lift weights instantly think that it's low testosterone levels . Yes, it is ONE THING that can cause those symptoms.

I would be very cautious about going on an anti-depressant. I really think those drugs are overused and they can be just as dangerous as they can be beneficial. I would explore many other areas first. Things that can affect it include diet, lifestyle, sleep patterns. You said you slept til 11am. Why? that's not a natural sleep pattern. I would assume (not saying you did) that you were up really late. When you get out of a regular sleep cycle your body can get run down. Doesn't matter if you got your 8 hours or not. Same thing happens with shift workers that have to change their sleeping schedules. I had that problem when my shift changed at the hospital and i worked until 1 am so i slept until 10. I was always tired. When i went back to normal and was in bed at 11pm and woke up at 6-7 am I felt great.

Also, Your hemoglobin is on the high end of the range. Go give blood and that will lower a little. Mine runs high which can cause sluggishness. I give blood and I feel better and my hemoglobin drops back down to midrange for a while. Its free and doesn't cost you anything but 30 minutes of your time. That and change your diet. You said you just eat whenever. Try going on a healthy diet on a set schedule. That can greatly affect your mood and energy. I would definitely try many other things before medications that alter you for life.

**FuPayMe** · 08-27-2008, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

fu....yes....very strange that quest didnt include the ref range for your total test....but all of us here know the range in ng/dl is around 275-1000 maybe some ranges go even up to 1500....but the low end is usually just under 300 and this includes test levels for ages of men 18-60..something like that and someone your age is usually more toward the upper
first of all you need to do a few more blood tests and try to get a good nite sleep and go to bed early and get your eight and got straight to test.....then after that if still low...doc's gonna need to check your pituitary to see if the reason could be a problem there....you've got to demand all these answers in your next appointment?
btw...what is the reason you thought you needed to check for test level(s)? Are you having trouble adding mass?

so say the range is 275-1000, how is 358 upper range? Its less than 100 points from the bottom, and more than 700 from the top. From what ive heard my pit. is working fine from my height? A doctor told me that. Im gonna get more blood tests.. And binder, go squat.

**FullMoonHowlingWolf** · 08-27-2008, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by FuPayMe

so say the range is 275-1000, how is 358 upper range? Its less than 100 points from the bottom, and more than 700 from the top. From what ive heard my pit. is working fine from my height? A doctor told me that. Im gonna get more blood tests.. And binder, go squat.

Please read this link posted by Kale Interpretation of Free Testosterone, Estrogen, and Total Testosterone Blood TestsThe range for Quest labs is 241-827 ng/dL and you are 358, so the doc is correct. I just used Quest and have the paper work in front of me.

**FullMoonHowlingWolf** · 08-27-2008, 01:18 PM

Also, like jpkman said make the doc do more testing on your next appt. so you can get some answers.

"Been lifting since 13, got serious about a year ago, was consistent for a few months, then depression got the upper hand. I couldnt eat shit, couldnt lift worth shit, there were times i sat crying in between bench press sets, got sad fast as hell, didnt see any enjoyment in life anymore, self esteem went to shit, etc etc etc. I was able to control most of this after a little time, but not all of it."

Was there something that happened in your life that caused this behavior?

**binder** · 08-27-2008, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by FullMoonHowlingWolf

Also, like jpkman said make the doc do more testing on your next appt. so you can get some answers.

"Been lifting since 13, got serious about a year ago, was consistent for a few months, then depression got the upper hand. I couldnt eat shit, couldnt lift worth shit, there were times i sat crying in between bench press sets, got sad fast as hell, didnt see any enjoyment in life anymore, self esteem went to shit, etc etc etc. I was able to control most of this after a little time, but not all of it."

Was there something that happened in your life that caused this behavior?

i wondered this too. This is too extreme of mood to be caused by low testosterone levels .

This sounds like an emotional disturbance or possible chemical imbalance in the brain.

**DSM4Life** · 08-27-2008, 02:43 PM

FU, what you are hearing are peoples OPINIONS ! Just because someone agrees with you and says "thats low" doesn't mean its true. Many of the articles i have read agree that even 200 can be looked at as normal. There are too many variables to consider here. Try going back to your doc, explain your problems (whatever they are) and see where you go from there.

**zaggahamma** · 08-27-2008, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by FuPayMe

so say the range is 275-1000, how is 358 upper range? Its less than 100 points from the bottom, and more than 700 from the top. From what ive heard my pit. is working fine from my height? A doctor told me that. Im gonna get more blood tests.. And binder, go squat.

no we agreed already that the doc wasnt forthright with you on this figure...that is not upper range and it WOULD be considered low for YOUR AGE....
but like all mentioned in this post they are opinions and like i said b4 in my last post...you have to listen and decipher and make the decision yourself...we might be looking out for your best interest in our hearts....but a doctor you can sue if he misdiagnoses or prescribes something harmful... you cant sue anybody here, etc.
but i've been on this board for several years and 90% of the time helpful advice is offered and if someone offers misguided info they are usually corrected...
and in your case, you are very young to be on the hrt forum and careful advice is to be given....nobody on this site will recommend you to take steroids at your age without a doctors order
so keep working hard and reading and you can talk to as many doctors as you want....if you have insurance of can afford...use those resources....and like we all have said....keep working hard and eat as clean and healthy as possible good meats and proteins, good slow digesting carbs, veggies, and fruit....other shiat...occasionally
if some advice is given hear that you dont like....just keep it to the side...don't lash back....wastes your time...and your time is better spent on your health
hope we've helped
someone will always be here to listen....guarantee that

**FuPayMe** · 08-27-2008, 10:04 PM

the symptoms used to be pretty bad. Those are long gone, still a lurking shitty feeling in the background, and just dont enjoy things the way i used to. But i havent had any trama in my life, nothing that could have caused this. Ive never really been depressed, nothing to complain about anyway. I really dont like the idea of having low levels this young. I wouldnt care if i didnt have the symptoms. I really think if my levels were higher id feel better.

**DSM4Life** · 08-28-2008, 05:03 AM

Originally Posted by FuPayMe

the symptoms used to be pretty bad. Those are long gone, still a lurking shitty feeling in the background, and just dont enjoy things the way i used to. But i havent had any trama in my life, nothing that could have caused this. Ive never really been depressed, nothing to complain about anyway. I really dont like the idea of having low levels this young. I wouldnt care if i didnt have the symptoms. I really think if my levels were higher id feel better.

Sounds to me like its all in your head.

**binder** · 08-28-2008, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by DSM4Life

Sounds to me like its all in your head.

i think so too. you said you've never been depressed but have you looked at the symptoms of depression? you show all the clinical signs of it. the uncontrolled crying in the gym should be a huge alert for you.

and depending on the lab, you don't know if that is low. That is actually on the upper end based on some lab ranges so stop saying your doctor is lying.

**FullMoonHowlingWolf** · 08-28-2008, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by FuPayMe

the symptoms used to be pretty bad. Those are long gone, still a lurking shitty feeling in the background, and just dont enjoy things the way i used to. But i havent had any trama in my life, nothing that could have caused this. Ive never really been depressed, nothing to complain about anyway. I really dont like the idea of having low levels this young. I wouldnt care if i didnt have the symptoms. I really think if my levels were higher id feel better.

I agree with what the guys above are saying. Go see some other docs and get some other opinions.

Also, there are many things you do and can take over the counter to help stimulate your natural test levels. Your mind is very powerful and can cause an array of problems. You mentioned that the symptoms use to be bad, but they are gone now. Even though you still have a lurking feeling, things have improved, so work from there and focus on the positives. Improvement is a good sign. Perhaps you suffer from depression, but that's what a doc will determine.

**THORSZ** · 08-28-2008, 11:46 AM

I too agree with all the above. I would work with your doc and even get referred to a psychologist. Not to say you are not right in the head, but just cover all the bases. I wouldn't jump on antidepressants either without speaking to one. You might have a case of depression and not even know it. Not to keep bringing up your age, but you go thru a lot of changes at 18. Just out of high school, legal adult, work, colledge....
Hang in there and let us know how you are doing.

**FuPayMe** · 08-28-2008, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by binder

i think so too. you said you've never been depressed but have you looked at the symptoms of depression? you show all the clinical signs of it. the uncontrolled crying in the gym should be a huge alert for you.

and depending on the lab, you don't know if that is low. That is actually on the upper end based on some lab ranges so stop saying your doctor is lying.

He did lie. ReRead my first 2 sentences. I saw him check total testosterone . I told him i wanted to check free also, he said they automatically test both. That was a lie buddy. You seem a little upset binder. Are you a doctor? When i say i have never been depressed before, i meant before, you know, before all of the recent depression. You misunderstood me. I would probably have down syndrome or serious denial if i couldnt realize i had moderate to severe depression. While i was researching depression just about everyday, i ran into some sites saying it could be hormonal. When i searched the symptoms of low testosterone , i had 75% of the symptoms. Ive seen people on this forum with higher total test than me, then some of you tell them to check free test, thats what matters. Of course, they were at least 6 years older than i. With me, its all in my head though. Simple as this, my quality of life isnt where it should be. I dont cry anymore, im not depressed beyond control. The thing that is my main worry is that i dont enjoy life as much.

**FullMoonHowlingWolf** · 08-29-2008, 12:40 AM

http://www.steroid.com/video/#top Jul 22 2008 - Steroids and Teens - check out this video.

**binder** · 08-29-2008, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by FuPayMe

He did lie. ReRead my first 2 sentences. I saw him check total testosterone. I told him i wanted to check free also, he said they automatically test both. That was a lie buddy. You seem a little upset binder. Are you a doctor? When i say i have never been depressed before, i meant before, you know, before all of the recent depression. You misunderstood me. I would probably have down syndrome or serious denial if i couldnt realize i had moderate to severe depression. While i was researching depression just about everyday, i ran into some sites saying it could be hormonal. When i searched the symptoms of low testosterone, i had 75% of the symptoms. Ive seen people on this forum with higher total test than me, then some of you tell them to check free test, thats what matters. Of course, they were at least 6 years older than i. With me, its all in my head though. Simple as this, my quality of life isnt where it should be. I dont cry anymore, im not depressed beyond control. The thing that is my main worry is that i dont enjoy life as much.

free test isn't a very accurate test on what is going on with your body. It's a spot test on how much test is floating at that point in time. You could have it tested, then turn around an hour later and be double or half of that very easily. That's why most doctors do very little with it. They might reference it, but it's easily manipulated therefore not very accurate for testosterone as a whole.

I am currently not a doctor. I'm a med student doing internships with doctors. I've been with an internal medicine doctor for quite a while now. Both my parents are doctors also. I hear a lot and study a lot of this stuff. Especially being a mid-20's bodybuilder myself.

I'm not upset. I do consider myself an angry person so that might come through my typing. I am very blunt and forward in my answers so that could be misconstrued into anger. I get sick of patients that come in to the office to have a doctor examine them then spend 10 minutes arguing what the doctor says or trying to prove him a bad doctor. It gets old after a while. If you spend the time to go to the doctor, believe him. If he makes a mistake then he makes a mistake. He's human. He does, however, have much more training than the patient therefore don't talk to him like he's a quack. I don't mind questions. I love patients that ask questions to better understand, but not the ones that ask questions trying to prove the doctor is an idiot. and i'm not talking about you, i'm talking about patients in general.

**zaggahamma** · 08-29-2008, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by binder

free test isn't a very accurate test on what is going on with your body. It's a spot test on how much test is floating at that point in time. You could have it tested, then turn around an hour later and be double or half of that very easily. That's why most doctors do very little with it. They might reference it, but it's easily manipulated therefore not very accurate for testosterone as a whole.

I am currently not a doctor. I'm a med student doing internships with doctors. I've been with an internal medicine doctor for quite a while now. Both my parents are doctors also. I hear a lot and study a lot of this stuff. Especially being a mid-20's bodybuilder myself.

I'm not upset. I do consider myself an angry person so that might come through my typing. I am very blunt and forward in my answers so that could be misconstrued into anger. I get sick of patients that come in to the office to have a doctor examine them then spend 10 minutes arguing what the doctor says or trying to prove him a bad doctor. It gets old after a while. If you spend the time to go to the doctor, believe him. If he makes a mistake then he makes a mistake. He's human. He does, however, have much more training than the patient therefore don't talk to him like he's a quack. I don't mind questions. I love patients that ask questions to better understand, but not the ones that ask questions trying to prove the doctor is an idiot. and i'm not talking about you, i'm talking about patients in general.

good points binder
its good to have your experience and knowledge from the doctor's point of view...
in retrospect to that there have been many posts on this forum to justify the questoining of doctors and i have noticed that a lot of doctors WILL push certain meds like anti D's and viagras, etc. and i've had them speed me along trying to rush me in and out and l give them respect in their presence....i just cant agree with your one statement where you say if you go to a doctor...believe him...doctors are capable of mistakes and misdiagnosis as you said but that is exactly why they should be open to questioning...i believe the best way is to have second and third opinions

**binder** · 08-30-2008, 10:42 AM

trusting your doctor and asking questions to better understand is completely different than arguing with him and belittling his education. Make sure we're clear on that understanding. I love having patients that ask questions in order to understand what's going on. It reduces confusion in the long run. The people that bluntly say "no you're wrong" without any education, research, or reason make me want to scream.

I hate the pushing of anti depressive medications, sleep aids, and all that stuff. Don't even get me started on the ADHD drugs either.

Case in point. I was a 6 year sergeant in the army while I was obtaining my first degree. During that period I was deployed twice. During the second deployment I lost my fiance. We graduated high school together and were together for 4 years after high school. I took it pretty hard. This last year after having a recent love move in with me some bad things happened. I took it hard. I HATE anti depression medications but my doctor (who also works at the hospital here with me) noticed my changes and pressed me hard (and against my will) to put me on short term use of an antidepressant. After weeks of me not wanting to I finally listened and took them. About a month on that medication (lexapro) and things settled down for me and life seemed to return to normal so I went off of them. I should have listened to him the first time, went on the meds so i could have been off them sooner. They honestly did what they were supposed to and he was right. I felt so bad for second guessing him.

**FuPayMe** · 09-05-2008, 10:43 PM

One more question. Im curious how 358 is considered high if the range is 241-827? Doesnt make sense to me.

**binder** · 09-06-2008, 11:19 AM

i wouldn't call it high. it's in the middle 1/3 of the range so it is normal. And actually, by definition anything in that range is normal because that's the "normal range". There is a range because not all people are the same. What is normal for one person could be low for another. What might seem like low for a person who "thinks" they should be in the 700 range could be what their body has always produced. You'll never know if you haven't had a baseline done when you were younger (post puberty).

**FuPayMe** · 09-06-2008, 08:55 PM

im very disappointed im this low at my "peak". My testosterone is "through the roof at this age, i should take advantage of it." Im seriously going to find a good doc that would at least give me some hcg . You call this normal i call this bs. Im curious why they want me to re schedule an appt so bad? i blew off two after i got my labwork, then they called back and scheduled another one? Anyone have any idea why?

**binder** · 09-07-2008, 06:44 AM

Wait, so you are worried about this and you "blew off" two appointments? Can I ask if you are seeking therapy also?

One would wonder if someone is truely worried about their health why they would "blow off" any appointments the doctor would like to make with you. Maybe he wants to retest to make sure, maybe he WANTS to give you HCG to influence your natural production. You'll never know if you act like a child and don't at least go back to the doctor when he recommends it. I don't mean to be offensive but seriously, it's not very mature to complain about your doctor not doing anything then turn around and not go to an appointment. You are shooting yourself in the foot and making it appear as if you are just trying to get free steroids instead of trying to find out your health issues.

And i don't recall you mentioning symptoms at all of the reason for the visit to the doctor in the first place. You just said you went to have him test your testosterone levels .