5th week trt

[flatscat]

Ok - lots of questions...

On Test C 200mg/once a week, just got back basic bloodwork reults:

Pre total test was 230 Now is 1420
Pre free test was 11 Now is 34
Pre Estrogen was 59 Now is 48

I have been taking .5 Arimidex twice/week for 3 weeks - do you think I should bump that to EOD? I am also on 250mcg of Hcg once a week - wonder if that is contributing to the still elevated estrogen?

I have lost some fat and gained lbm, but not really working out that hard. I never thought my total test would go that high - Do you think if my diet is in check I could see some gains if I stepped up the workouts?

I am about 22% BF (started at 27%)- could this be contributing to the higher E as well - as the bf - drops should I see lower E and higher total test?

Thanks All

[blastedlooger]

Test/Estrogen ratio is pretty good at your levels (it's 30). You are taking the new test which converts into estrogen which is why you are taking the arimidex which prevents that conversion. Higher bf usually correlates to higher estrogen levels so it should go down even more as you lose fat. You might want to try 3 doses of .5mg for one week but then your test might get insane. The levels you are at now are pretty damn good. Free test is awesome, and total test is awesome.

Not sure if this is prescribed by a doc but consider yourself lucky. I'm only 19 with an estrogen level of 60 and my Total T ranges from 400-600. Doc doesn't know anything about arimidex and pretty much refuses to prescribe it to me. He gave me provigil instead and this stuff might even be detrimental to me.

[flatscat]

I thought I read somewhere that E should be somewhere around 20 ideally?

The test levels are awesome! The doc doesnt seem to mind the level - said to keep the same dosage going.

[flatscat]

Anyone else have any thoughts?

[BOB89]

How do you feel is the question I would like to know

I'm on a much dif program than you but I would worry less about numbers if the doc is happy and more about what your life quality is doing.

[flatscat]

I feel a thousand times better than I did six months ago. I think he will probably let me stay on this dose until the complete blood work up 4 weeks from now.

What I don't know is how much better I would feel if the E2 came down to 20-30 - probably not much I guess? I am going to bumb the Arimidex to 3 times a week and see if it makes any difference.

What kind of prog are you on BOB89?

[BOB89]

I started at only 200 Mg every six weeks, got it changed to 200 mg every month, and now its 150mg every 10-14 days. this is injecting cyp with me adminstering the shots now. We are sorta going on feel til I reach a comfort level that I like. And at this time no other meds related to TRT and no sides and that make me happy.


I'm sorta playing the "how much better could I feel if" game right now to. But for me the least amount I can take and get what I want is the way I'm going to go for awhile.

[flatscat]

Guess my Doc went in a different direction - sounds like he started me out high and will adjust from there. I know that I am a changed person - although my numbers may be a little too high. If I could get my Test dose lowered and still feel great I would do it. Maybe I could drop the HCG and Arimidex too. Although with by BF at around 21 now - I think I will have to stay on the A.I. until that drops a little more.

Test Cyp once/week seems to be the standard around here for TRT and it makes sense with the half life of cyp. Good luck to you. It will be interesting where we both end up starting from opposite ends. I go back for a complete workup in about 6 weeks.

When is your next blood work scheduled?

[BOB89]

That is another differnce in the way we(me and the doc) are going about this I won't do bloodwork for a couple months unless sides or something else show up. I know its strange and out of the ordinary but I feel comfortable with it. He educated me on what I need to watch for and if any rears its ugly head I go in for blood.

[flatscat]

Update - doc wants to stop weekly hcg until week ten the go ed for two weeks. Wtf? If he thinks it is taking my test too high and e2 higher then why would he want me to go every day for 2 weeks? Not worried about having any more kids.

[TBones]

HCG is usually administered several times in a week or two timeframe, not once a week long term. This actually makes more sense now. He wants to periodically bump your nuts back into production. Not burn them out with continued HCG use.

And the one guy was saying your ratio looks good and you were saying you thought you read 20 for E. Yes, 20 for E with a test ration in the normal range, but like he said, with your test at 1400 or so, the ratio looked good. I agree with him. So now with the doc changing it up you should see both come down some. Too bad. lol I was jealous for a minute! This would be healthier long term and that what this board (HRT) is all about, quality of life.

TBone

[flatscat]

Thanks Bones

LOL - Guess I was lucky he didnt say bump the hcg up to 2/week and drop the test down to 70.

I can't wait to get my BF down to below 15 so I can really tune this protocol up. I think the .5 Arimidex eod is bringing me down a little. I'll see how the next blood work comes in and prob have to make another adjustment.

I really can't see how the 250iu's of HCG once a week was taking my test levels up that high - but I can see how it was screwing with my E2 levels.

What do you think?

[TBones]

Ya, it could have been worse..lol..

I've actually never see test numbers according to HCG administration so i dont know if 1400 is possible from 250iu/wk. However, that plus the test...probably posssible.

TBone

[flatscat]

Week nine - I have laid off of the arimidex for the last 4 days - and I feel a whole lot better. I go off test next week for 2 weeks (nothing but hcg) and then get blood work re-done.

I'm thinking of staying off the arimidex until the results get back in.

What do you guys think? How low will my test levels go in the two weeks I am off? I wonder how long it will take me to feel like sh*t again after the last shot?

[TBones]

When i used to cycle i (and most other guys) didnt take a-dex or any other anti e unless i felt my nips getting sore. food for thought....

TBone

[ZonaDave]

how old are you? older guys seem to have more issues with E2.

i'm a little surprised that your doc is taking you off. does he want to see if you can restart?

your E2 looks high at 48. you have a few options to bring it down. you can reduce your T dosage, you can split your dose into semi-weekly shots or increase a-dex dosage. you might have to do all 3.

i'm 42 this year and i'm in the same boat...i convert T-->E so i'm currently on 2mg of a-dex/week (.5mg 4x/week) to keep it in check.

it's been awhile since i've been tested so i'm going on how i feel. a few things stand out for me: low libido, ED, emotional, slight nipple sensitivity, etc...

i'm going stick with this a-dex dose for a week or two to see what happens.

[flatscat]

[QUOTE=ZonaDave;4437908]how old are you? older guys seem to have more issues with E2. 40 yrs old.

i'm a little surprised that your doc is taking you off. does he want to see if you can restart? His protocol is to stop test week ten, then start only hcg week twelve for 10 days (1100 units/day) then back on test after results are in. Does not make sense to me - he is treating it like a PCT.

your E2 looks high at 48. you have a few options to bring it down. you can reduce your T dosage, you can split your dose into semi-weekly shots or increase a-dex dosage. you might have to do all 3. I know it looks high, and it did freak me out, but my ratio to t looks good.
i'm 42 this year and i'm in the same boat...i convert T-->E so i'm currently on 2mg of a-dex/week (.5mg 4x/week) to keep it in check.

it's been awhile since i've been tested so i'm going on how i feel. a few things stand out for me: low libido, ED, emotional, slight nipple sensitivity, etc... I have had none of those so far - maybe low libido for that week I was taking a-dex .5 every other day - along with headaches and generally feeling like I had the flu or something.
i'm going stick with this a-dex dose for a week or two to see what happens.[

I am thinking if he wants to see where my levels are (minus the test), then we might as well see where they are without the adex too. If I am going to feel like hell anyway - I might as well stay off the hcg also.

If I stay off for two to three weeks, then maybe my test level will be low enough to get it covered by insurance? Hell, I don't know what to do. I have enough of everything to go another 10 weeks on current 200mg/week.

I know that the test has changed my life - and I dont want to be off of it for long. I am thinking about letting my levels go low enough, find another Doc that I can educate, get it covered by insurance and go forward from there. Better to get it done now than at the end of the next 10 weeks. How long will it take to get the test out of my system and can I expect to be lower than I was to begin with?

The only thing that impressed me about this Doc is that I got the script to start with - nothing else he does makes much sense to me.

[ZonaDave]

i'm not sure what he's doing. i've only been on TRT for about 7 months now so i haven't seen everything yet but that does seem a little strange. it almost seems like he's trying to restart you to see if you can get by without T. i could see that if you were in your 20's but you're at an age where TRT is very common.

if you like this doc then maybe you should let him do his thing and see what happens. worse case is you find out it doesn't work and you go back to where you were on your current dose.

T to E ratio can be good but if your levels are too high than that's not good either. i'm surprised you don't have any symptoms with your E2 that high.

what day did you get tested in relation to your shot schedule? did they give you ranges with your results?

[flatscat]

i'm not sure what he's doing. i've only been on TRT for about 7 months now so i haven't seen everything yet but that does seem a little strange. it almost seems like he's trying to restart you to see if you can get by without T. i could see that if you were in your 20's but you're at an age where TRT is very common.

if you like this doc then maybe you should let him do his thing and see what happens. worse case is you find out it doesn't work and you go back to where you were on your current dose.

T to E ratio can be good but if your levels are too high than that's not good either. i'm surprised you don't have any symptoms with your E2 that high.

what day did you get tested in relation to your shot schedule? did they give you ranges with your results?

0-53, blood tested day 6 after shot

[flatscat]

I also want to get to the bottom of the my low progesterone. I think it fits into this puzzle somehow.

[ZonaDave]

I also want to get to the bottom of the my low progesterone. I think it fits into this puzzle somehow.

you might want to change your blood draw to the morning before your shot. don't eat anything after 10pm the night before (water only). and draw blood between 8am-10am the next morning (before shot). this way you'll know what your lowest levels are.

250IU of HCG twice a week might help boost your progesterone.

[CrazyCrew]

IMA 200mg is a bit much for someone just starting on TRT. 1420 TT is off the scale unless you are cycling. You might consider backing off to 100mg a week. This would bring your E2 levels down too.

[ZonaDave]

do you have the ranges for your TT and FT?

like i was saying earlier, if your E2 is high then it doesn't matter if you have a good TT to E2 ratio. high E2 lowers FT and that's the important T. you can have a high TT, high E2, low FT and not feel good or get the full benefits of TRT.

[flatscat]

total 1420 (241-827)
free 39.8 (6.8-21.5)

So total and free is high above range, E2 is high but in range. 5th day off of a-dex and feeling great - no signs of gyno.

I will get through these next few weeks, get results and go from there. Maybe start back with 100-140/week.

[ZonaDave]

total 1420 (241-827)
free 39.8 (6.8-21.5)

So total and free is high above range, E2 is high but in range. 5th day off of a-dex and feeling great - no signs of gyno.

I will get through these next few weeks, get results and go from there. Maybe start back with 100-140/week.

damn, that is high! i would cut your T dose back to 140-150mg/week if i were you to see how that helps bring down your E2. your body is trying to maintain homeostasis so it's working hard to dump the extra T.

you're off a-dex completely now? how's your libido and EQ?

another way to get your E2 down is to spilt your shots into twice/week. when your body sees a quick rise in T it converts alot of it to E.

[flatscat]

damn, that is high! i would cut your T dose back to 140-150mg/week if i were you to see how that helps bring down your E2. your body is trying to maintain homeostasis so it's working hard to dump the extra T.

you're off a-dex completely now? how's your libido and EQ?

another way to get your E2 down is to spilt your shots into twice/week. when your body sees a quick rise in T it converts alot of it to E.

I know it!! Remember I am supposed to go off for three weeks after next week - so I don't see me dropping mg's down for one shot. You never gave me any suggestions or thoughts on not even doing the hcg (11000 units in ten days when I come off the test) and then seeing where I am. I am worried that I will go from 1420 to way below normal - but I just dont know how long that will take. If it is low enough, then I can get my insurance to pay for all of this. I pay out of pocket now.

I am day 5 with no a-dex - libido is still great and don't know what you mean by EQ????

I agree about splitting shots - but really dont want to inject more than once/week. Have not had any ups and downs (guess I can thank my high levels for that - which is another reason I might try 150-175 first.

thanks again for your help

[CrazyCrew]

The last time I went off trt it took 5 weeks for the gear to clear and give me a TT of 230 from 1050. If you want your T levels low you should wait a while longer to restart. I've been told it takes 6 weeks for the suplimented test to clear your system..

[flatscat]

The last time I went off trt it took 5 weeks for the gear to clear and give me a TT of 230 from 1050.

Did you use any HCG or AI's when you came off the t?

[ZonaDave]

I know it!! Remember I am supposed to go off for three weeks after next week - so I don't see me dropping mg's down for one shot. You never gave me any suggestions or thoughts on not even doing the hcg (11000 units in ten days when I come off the test) and then seeing where I am. I am worried that I will go from 1420 to way below normal - but I just dont know how long that will take. If it is low enough, then I can get my insurance to pay for all of this. I pay out of pocket now.

I am day 5 with no a-dex - libido is still great and don't know what you mean by EQ????

I agree about splitting shots - but really dont want to inject more than once/week. Have not had any ups and downs (guess I can thank my high levels for that - which is another reason I might try 150-175 first.

thanks again for your help

i don't know what to say about the 11,000IU's of HCG. i'm sure your doc has a plan. you should ask him what this process will do and why he's doing it.

EQ = Erection Quality. when hormones are out of balance guys have low libido and either no erections or weak erections.

if you're having good luck with one shot per week then you should stay with that. no need to poke yourself twice a week if you don't have to.

i will be curious how you feel after being off T for two weeks. you're pretty high so it might take a little longer before it drops too low, especially while on HCG.

[flatscat]

i don't know what to say about the 11,000IU's of HCG. i'm sure your doc has a plan. you should ask him what this process will do and why he's doing it.

EQ = Erection Quality. when hormones are out of balance guys have low libido and either no erections or weak erections.

if you're having good luck with one shot per week then you should stay with that. no need to poke yourself twice a week if you don't have to.

i will be curious how you feel after being off T for two weeks. you're pretty high so it might take a little longer before it drops too low, especially while on HCG.

I'll keep posting on how I feel and will stay off the a-dex for now.

[ZonaDave]

I'll keep posting on how I feel and will stay off the a-dex for now.

this is going to be an interesting one!

[CrazyCrew]

Did you use any HCG or AI's when you came off the t?

Nothing.

[flatscat]

Ok, back on a-dex today (8th day without). Bloated and in a very, very foul mood past couple of days. No other symptoms. Not really something I want to experience though. No more test for 4 weeks. This is stupid.

[ZonaDave]

Ok, back on a-dex today (8th day without). Bloated and in a very, very foul mood past couple of days. No other symptoms. Not really something I want to experience though. No more test for 4 weeks. This is stupid.

you doc must know something no one else does. if you like this guy and trust him, let him try it. if it doesn't work, kick him in the nuts and then tell him he can try the same protocol to get his T back.

[flatscat]

you doc must know something no one else does. if you like this guy and trust him, let him try it. if it doesn't work, kick him in the nuts and then tell him he can try the same protocol to get his T back.

lol...the problem is I don't like him and trust him less everyday.

[ZonaDave]

lol...the problem is I don't like him and trust him less everyday.

well, trust is important and it's going to be a long road if you have to question every decision he makes.

how did you feel when you were on 200mg/week? was everything working ok?

i know you stopped the a-dex but is that when you started getting other symptoms?

[flatscat]

well, trust is important and it's going to be a long road if you have to question every decision he makes.

how did you feel when you were on 200mg/week? was everything working ok?

i know you stopped the a-dex but is that when you started getting other symptoms?

I felt great. Everything was working perfect after about week three. To be real honest, I am assuming the other symptoms were caused by the a-dex eod. It is possible that they were caused by something else. The headaches went away after the 4th day I stopped a-dex. I have started again and will do twice a week until I get the E2 retested.

I have another meeting with the doc on Monday to settle this crap. If it doesn't go well then I will go ahead with the plan and stay off for 4-5 weeks, find another doc, and hopefully get all covered by insurance. I don't want to go through this in another three months - or ever again. I am going to tell the doc that I don't need to run pct every ten weeks, that I am concerned about the low progesterone and high E2, and that if he can't help me get dialed in - then he needs to give me the option to adjust dosages as I wish.

Maybe staying off the test for a while and on the a-dex will get my E2 more in line and I can start the test at a lower dose with the same or better results. I am trying to come up with positives here - I know it is really going to suck having my test levels drop that much.

[ZonaDave]

I felt great. Everything was working perfect after about week three. To be real honest, I am assuming the other symptoms were caused by the a-dex eod. It is possible that they were caused by something else. The headaches went away after the 4th day I stopped a-dex. I have started again and will do twice a week until I get the E2 retested.

I have another meeting with the doc on Monday to settle this crap. If it doesn't go well then I will go ahead with the plan and stay off for 4-5 weeks, find another doc, and hopefully get all covered by insurance. I don't want to go through this in another three months - or ever again. I am going to tell the doc that I don't need to run pct every ten weeks, that I am concerned about the low progesterone and high E2, and that if he can't help me get dialed in - then he needs to give me the option to adjust dosages as I wish.

Maybe staying off the test for a while and on the a-dex will get my E2 more in line and I can start the test at a lower dose with the same or better results. I am trying to come up with positives here - I know it is really going to suck having my test levels drop that much.

i never heard of anyone cycling TRT before. you either need it or you don't. i've heard of docs trying a restart but nothing like what your doc is doing.

yes, E2 out of range can give you very similar symptoms. it's a fine tuning process, not just pumping a bunch of T into your body. i wish it were that simple.

at leat you know you respond well to the T!

[flatscat]

i never heard of anyone cycling TRT before. you either need it or you don't. i've heard of docs trying a restart but nothing like what your doc is doing.

yes, E2 out of range can give you very similar symptoms. it's a fine tuning process, not just pumping a bunch of T into your body. i wish it were that simple.

at leat you know you respond well to the T!

Bloat is down and not in as much of a foul mood since I am back on the a-dex. No headaches so far. I know my test levels are going down fast - no morning wood anymore, no real libido. 11 days since last test inj. I don't think I could stand to take 200mg every two weeks. Can I say this sucks one more time?

[ZonaDave]

Bloat is down and not in as much of a foul mood since I am back on the a-dex. No headaches so far. I know my test levels are going down fast - no morning wood anymore, no real libido. 11 days since last test inj. I don't think I could stand to take 200mg every two weeks. Can I say this sucks one more time?

i remember those feelings...too well!

keep us informed with your progress.