Test and ED

[Warrior1700]

I have been on HRT for a few years now...ranging from 200-400mg Cyp weekly and 100mg Deca weekly along with B12. I also used to eat the, now banned pro-hormones, like candy. I have had ED issues for years now, I am 46, 5'10", 195 lbs with 8 1/2-9% body fat..I feel I am in the best physical shape in my life. But this ED has been an unresolved issue. I don't have the typical health problems related to ED, IE: HBP, Smoker, drinker, obese...and the like. Even with the ED prescriptions I have hit or miss results. I have just learned that even HRT can cause ED. Where do we know when HRT is benificial as opposed to detrimental? Seems as though since the on set of Pro-hormones and now my HRT, my ED has remained. My Libido is good, I want and love sex, but sometimes I cannot complete the task. Should I get and stay off of Cyp and Deca or have it more closely monitored and adjusted? Thanks in advance for all the help. Sorry so long, trying to be a lil detailed.

[Mighty Joe]

The Deca concerns me. I've never heard of any Doc prescribing Deca for HRT. Have you done regular blood work? Are you working with an Endo? Has your Estrogen been monitored???

Talk to your Doc. No reason you should have ED issues at 46 unless something else is at fault and he can direct you to a Urologist if needed.

Good Luck & Keep us posted bro,

MJ

[Warrior1700]

Hey MJ,

Well, the Cyp and Deca are not just for HRT, I was also looking for help with muscle gain as well...Regular blood work consists of every 6 months and the Doc adjusts the Cyp according to my test level. Estrogen is part of my blood work but he doesnt use it as a guide. He is not an Endo, he calls his practice "vitatlity" , translation, he is liberal with the Cyp and Deca and will prescribe just about anything you ask within his limitations.

I was just told that too much Cyp or test can cause ED. I dont know. BUt now it's bothering me and should I get off of the Cyp and Deca completely? I think I will go see an actual Endo or more likely a Urologist real soon though. which would be better in your opinion?

[Mighty Joe]

Hey MJ,

Well, the Cyp and Deca are not just for HRT, I was also looking for help with muscle gain as well...Regular blood work consists of every 6 months and the Doc adjusts the Cyp according to my test level. Estrogen is part of my blood work but he doesnt use it as a guide. He is not an Endo, he calls his practice "vitatlity" , translation, he is liberal with the Cyp and Deca and will prescribe just about anything you ask within his limitations.

I was just told that too much Cyp or test can cause ED. I dont know. BUt now it's bothering me and should I get off of the Cyp and Deca completely? I think I will go see an actual Endo or more likely a Urologist real soon though. which would be better in your opinion?

If it were me! I would stay on cyp and drop the Deca. I would monitor my Bloodwork Monthly until all pistons are firing correctly. Yes, on the Endo!!

[FallenWyvern]

I have not heard of test causing ED.

[Warrior1700]

Ok, I go tomorrow and I will drop the Deca to start. I will get an updated blood test tomorrow also. I searched for info and found this article. Any thoughts??


http://www.articlesbase.com/health-a...on-411697.html

[Silver-Bolt]

Test for me did just the opposite. I get wood when the wind blows now.

[Mighty Joe]

I have not heard of test causing ED.

Test can cause ED if estrogen is too high or too low. It effects some folks differently.

[Warrior1700]

Test can cause ED if estrogen is too high or too low. It effects some folks differently.

So can the estrogen get to high with too muct Test and no anti estrogens?

[FallenWyvern]

^^^ Yup.
e2 levels can really mess with energy and sex drive. You do know that many ED issues aren't hormonal.

[Warrior1700]

^^^ Yup.
e2 levels can really mess with energy and sex drive. You do know that many ED issues aren't hormonal.

Yep..I know, as I stated, I dont fall under any of the other catagories...Diabetes, obesety, smoker, drinker, HBP, etc...so other than the Test or psychological factor...I dont know. My drive is oh so fine...its the ED thats the problem...

[Marek]

I have been on HRT for a few years now. That article is about men who cycle and don't do proper pct. Of course the article doesn't mention that because it wants to instill a fear of steroids. Even WITH pct it wouldn't surprise me if you had a "down cycle" until your body adjusted. As long as you are on hormones and in the proper amounts you should not have ed. You should as your doctor to prescribe you HCG. My sex drive substantially increased when this was added. Watch the estrogen and keep your hormones within high normal limits. I'm speaking from an HRT perspective.

Ok, I go tomorrow and I will drop the Deca to start. I will get an updated blood test tomorrow also. I searched for info and found this article. Any thoughts??


http://www.articlesbase.com/health-a...on-411697.html

[Warrior1700]

I have been on HRT for a few years now. That article is about men who cycle and don't do proper pct. Of course the article doesn't mention that because it wants to instill a fear of steroids. Even WITH pct it wouldn't surprise me if you had a "down cycle" until your body adjusted. As long as you are on hormones and in the proper amounts you should not have ed. You should as your doctor to prescribe you HCG. My sex drive substantially increased when this was added. Watch the estrogen and keep your hormones within high normal limits. I'm speaking from an HRT perspective.

I havn't done any pct. I did one bottle of HCG in July of 08. I am about to ask for another script for HCG.

[Warrior1700]

bump

[ZonaDave]

do you have your latest bloodwork numbers with ranges?

your dosage of 200-400mg Cyp weekly and 100mg Deca weekly isn't considered replacement, that's considered a pretty good cycle. you didn't mention anything about taking anything for E2 which i'm sure is the main cause of your problem.

when Total T goes up, E2 goes up and then SHBG increases which binds to your Free T and makes it useless.

high Free T is what you want. taking an AI like anastrozole will block the conversion of T to E which will lower your SHBG and increase your Free T. once you acheive this balance you will see a sigificant difference.

[Testomaster]

I was just told that too much Cyp or test can cause ED. I dont know. BUt now it's bothering me and should I get off of the Cyp and Deca completely? I think I will go see an actual Endo or more likely a Urologist real soon though. which would be better in your opinion?

I don't think external testosterone can cause DE, not even with high estrogen increase. As someone else said : you should know that many ED issues aren't hormonal.

When I did heavy cycles (up to 1000 mg. of testo a week) , I remember I had my estradiol level up to the stars , my gino was embarassing , my testicles were like two peanuts but my sex drive and my sexual performance were always over the limit, no ED at all .

In your case some PDE5 inhibitor will help.

[clozto50]

Hey deca is notorious for causing ed(deca dick).you should definitely start arimidex. If your doing trt 200 mg a wk is by far enough.Easy fix!!!

[Testomaster]

Or you should try Dostinex (cabergoline) wich is a prolactin blocker . Some steroids like Deca or Tren can raise prolactin level dramatically .

Men who have hyperprolactinemia tend to have side effects like : enlarged mammary glands, milk production, decreased libido (sex drive), decreased sperm production and impotence .

I heard Dostinex is very popular among the pornostars...It will shorten the time you need to recover and gain an erection between orgasms, and can significantly enhance all parameters of sexual drive and function .

[Warrior1700]

do you have your latest bloodwork numbers with ranges?

your dosage of 200-400mg Cyp weekly and 100mg Deca weekly isn't considered replacement, that's considered a pretty good cycle. you didn't mention anything about taking anything for E2 which i'm sure is the main cause of your problem.

when Total T goes up, E2 goes up and then SHBG increases which binds to your Free T and makes it useless.

high Free T is what you want. taking an AI like anastrozole will block the conversion of T to E which will lower your SHBG and increase your Free T. once you acheive this balance you will see a sigificant difference.

Here is my latest blood work...as of 3/13/09 Doc just prescribed Arimidex but I hve not filled it yet...any opinions if I need it?

T3, Free = 328 range 230-420 pg/dL
T4, Free = 1.5 range 0.8-1.8 ng/dL
Test Total = 533 range 245-1836 NG/DL
Test Free = 14.3 range 7.2-23.0 PG/ML
Estrogens, Total , Serum = 151 range 130 or less pg/mL (so Im a bit high)

[Warrior1700]

I don't think external testosterone can cause DE, not even with high estrogen increase. As someone else said : you should know that many ED issues aren't hormonal.

When I did heavy cycles (up to 1000 mg. of testo a week) , I remember I had my estradiol level up to the stars , my gino was embarassing , my testicles were like two peanuts but my sex drive and my sexual performance were always over the limit, no ED at all .

In your case some PDE5 inhibitor will help.

I didnt think Test would cause ED either, not from everything I have read and heard. I have since dropped the Deca(2nd week) and still having some issues. I understand not all ED is Hormonal but I have no other physical factors that I am aware of, the only other factor I can think of would be psychological.

[Warrior1700]

Hey deca is notorious for causing ed(deca dick).you should definitely start arimidex. If your doing trt 200 mg a wk is by far enough.Easy fix!!!

I dropped the deca now for the last 2 weeks,still getting 400 mg Cyp weekly. Doc. prescribed Arimidex but have not filled it yet. Wanted to gather more info first.

[FallenWyvern]

This looks like an estrgen problem. Get the AI going.

[Warrior1700]

This looks like an estrgen problem. Get the AI going.

Seriously, you think so? AI meaning Arimidex?

[FallenWyvern]

Yes!

[ZonaDave]

agreed, getting E2 dialed in is key. i think for me using HCG was making it tough sometimes to get my E2 in a "sweet spot" so i stopped using it for a little while to see if only dealing with two variables (Test and adex) instead of three will make it easier.

[Warrior1700]

agreed, getting E2 dialed in is key. i think for me using HCG was making it tough sometimes to get my E2 in a "sweet spot" so i stopped using it for a little while to see if only dealing with two variables (Test and adex) instead of three will make it easier.

Ahhh, interesting that you bring up HCG, cuz my Doc wants to prescribe that as well after the AI, since I have been on 400 mg weekly for nine months since the last time I did a botle of HCG. SO no HCG and just the AI you think?

[ZonaDave]

Ahhh, interesting that you bring up HCG, cuz my Doc wants to prescribe that as well after the AI, since I have been on 400 mg weekly for nine months since the last time I did a botle of HCG. SO no HCG and just the AI you think?

man that's alot of T! i'm on 120mg/week right now and i feel good. i might have to bump that up a little now that i'm taking a break for HCG.

it's really up to what you and your doctor agree on but in my opinion i think it would be easier to get the T and E set first before adding HCG.

i'm still not sure about HCG. here's the thing...i find it hard to believe that someone who is primary can get enough from HCG. if HCG works for someone who is primary, then why can't it boost your natural T levels enough to make you feel good?

also, they say HCG loses its potency after about 3-4 weeks. well, if you have your T and adex doses set just right and your HCG starts to lose its potency then that means your E2 will start to drop lower than your sweet spot. my question is, how do you know when HCG starts to lose its potency? and if you have to increase your HCG dose to compensate, how much do you increase it? i've never felt any different on it let alone know when its degrading a little.

i've been on it since i started TRT back in Aug. 2008 so it will be interesting to see what happens now that i stopped taking it. i might find out that it was doing more than i thought it was. there's only one way to find out.

back to your original question. Test Cyp and adex are very stabil so i would work on getting those two adjusted first. i think it would be alot easier dealing with two variables rather than three. once you get those two set you can add HCG to see how you feel. you should be feeling great when you have your Test Cyp and adex adjusted properly so you'll know if the HCG is making an improvement or not.

[ENraged]

I agree with what the others have said, personally I would dump everything but the test for starters. lower my weekly dosage to 100 or 150 and hop on anti-E's. wait like 6 weeks and have a fresh batch of blood work done.
I would almost bet money that once you get the E's in check you will be chasing the lady around the house with the old sub dial at high noon for sure.

[Warrior1700]

man that's alot of T! i'm on 120mg/week right now and i feel good. i might have to bump that up a little now that i'm taking a break for HCG.

if HCG works for someone who is primary, then why can't it boost your natural T levels enough to make you feel good?

also, they say HCG loses its potency after about 3-4 weeks. well, if you have your T and adex doses set just right and your HCG starts to lose its potency then that means your E2 will start to drop lower than your sweet spot. my question is, how do you know when HCG starts to lose its potency? and if you have to increase your HCG dose to compensate, how much do you increase it? i've never felt any different on it let alone know when its degrading a little.

i've been on it since i started TRT back in Aug. 2008 so it will be interesting to see what happens now that i stopped taking it. i might find out that it was doing more than i thought it was. there's only one way to find out.

back to your original question. Test Cyp and adex are very stabil so i would work on getting those two adjusted first. i think it would be alot easier dealing with two variables rather than three. once you get those two set you can add HCG to see how you feel. you should be feeling great when you have your Test Cyp and adex adjusted properly so you'll know if the HCG is making an improvement or not.

Well, to touch on a few points...my doc lets me kinda adjust my cyp as I feel necessary...I can have him reduce it to 300mg weekly or even 200mg, but I am also trying to get some bodybuilding advantage from it as well.

As far as the HCG, yea, my Q would be that also, why can't it work to boost your natural T level? But now that is getting way beyond my brain power.

So to the adex, he gave me enuf for 5 days a week for 6 weeks and he wants another blood test after that. When you say get the "sweet spot" or getting them adjusted, what do you mean exactly? Getting the E blood level lower than what is currently is and knowing its lower via the blood work?

[Warrior1700]

I agree with what the others have said, personally I would dump everything but the test for starters. lower my weekly dosage to 100 or 150 and hop on anti-E's. wait like 6 weeks and have a fresh batch of blood work done.
I would almost bet money that once you get the E's in check you will be chasing the lady around the house with the old sub dial at high noon for sure.

Lol....Yea, I dunped the Deca already, and will leave the HCG alone for now and get the Arimidex filled and new blood work in 6 weeks. May lower the cyp also. Oh Im chasing the lady around the house plenty...Lol, plenty of drive, plenty of wood to start for awhile, just having finishing issues.

[ENraged]

Finishing issues like you just go at it and at it? After awhile the lady is like ok killer finish the hell up type of issue after which you have to like force one out? or after a bit of play time he decides he is done like it or not?

[Warrior1700]

Finishing issues like you just go at it and at it? After awhile the lady is like ok killer finish the hell up type of issue after which you have to like force one out? or after a bit of play time he decides he is done like it or not?

Roflmao....Usually the latter, go at it but after a bit of play time, hes done, like it or not, then back for a lil more after a rest then done and so on until I either get tired of losing it or finally finish. Mostly get tired of trying.

[ZonaDave]

When you say get the "sweet spot" or getting them adjusted, what do you mean exactly?

in TRT terms, there's a sweet spot where you have enough T in you system while keeping your E2 in the mid-range. this is different than blasting because it's more about balance. when there's too much T then the body works hard to dump the excess which usually mean conversion to E2.

when taking large amounts of T like what you're on right now you need alot of adex to keep your E2 from going sky high. you won't be able to maintain high levels like that for long periods of time.

it's common to feel the way you do. most guys on TRT probably think "well, i'm on it for life, i might as well get a little extra out of it from time-to-time".

i'm at the point now where i want to find that hormonal "sweet spot" first so i can identify it.

[Warrior1700]

in TRT terms, there's a sweet spot where you have enough T in you system while keeping your E2 in the mid-range. this is different than blasting because it's more about balance. when there's too much T then the body works hard to dump the excess which usually mean conversion to E2.

when taking large amounts of T like what you're on right now you need alot of adex to keep your E2 from going sky high. you won't be able to maintain high levels like that for long periods of time.

So I chould be defeating the purpose of getting the T? If it's too much I am converting the excess to too Much E? So how much adex whould I be taking at this point?

[ZonaDave]

So I chould be defeating the purpose of getting the T? If it's too much I am converting the excess to too Much E? So how much adex whould I be taking at this point?

i'm not sure how much your converting. you'll have to run some tests to find out for sure and adjust your protocol accordingly.

T affects everyone differently and it changes with age. older guys tend to have more issues dealing with E than younger guys do. i remember doing some heavy cycles back in the late 80's when i was in my early 20's and i never used anything for E control. i was a walking hard-on and i couldn't get enough. i felt indestructable.

i'm not sure what would happen now if i did a cycle. i'm sure i'd have to take quite a bit of anastrozole to keep my E2 under control and the high T level might give me some anxiety...not sure.

anytime you make changes to your protocol it would be a good idea to run some test a month or so later to see where things are.

[Warrior1700]

Well, Im 46 now and feeling great. In better shape still than when I was younger and way better shape than most my age...196 lbs with 8 1/2-9 % body fat. Im gonna start teh Arimidex Monday, any ideas on how much I should be talking? Thanks

[ZonaDave]

Well, Im 46 now and feeling great. In better shape still than when I was younger and way better shape than most my age...196 lbs with 8 1/2-9 % body fat. Im gonna start teh Arimidex Monday, any ideas on how much I should be talking? Thanks

it really depends on what your E2 level is but most guys are on .25mg-.5mg EOD or E3D. it's something you have to tweak until your E2 is at a good level.

it's pretty easy to check with a saliva test. ZRT Lab has them for $35

[Testomaster]

Warrior, You want your erection back ? Do like this :

1 - Drop your testosterone inj. to 200 mg. a week.
2 - Take some HCG during the cycle (250 IU twice a week or 500 IU once a week).
3 - In case you want take some AAS together with testo, switch Deca to any DHT's derivate like Primobolan,Winstrol,Masteron,Oxandrolone...These AAS can't aromatize.
4 - Take 50 mg. of Proviron everyday, it will unleash your free testosterone from SHBG and it will work like an antiestrogen as well.
5 - Get some pd5 inhibitors .

Do like this and you won't need any antiestrogen....Don't forget that low estrogen levels can decrease libido as well.

Good luck.

[zaggahamma]

Warrior, You want your erection back ? Do like this :

1 - Drop your testosterone inj. to 200 mg. a week.
2 - Take some HCG during the cycle (250 IU twice a week or 500 IU once a week).
3 - In case you want take some AAS together with testo, switch Deca to any DHT's derivate like Primobolan,Winstrol,Masteron,Oxandrolone...These AAS can't aromatize.
4 - Take 50 mg. of Proviron everyday, it will unleash your free testosterone from SHBG and it will work like an antiestrogen as well.
5 - Get some pd5 inhibitors .

Do like this and you won't need any antiestrogen....Don't forget that low estrogen levels can decrease libido as well.

Good luck.

testo,

r u on a similar protocol and if so how long and how long has it been effective and is proviron hard to get...its a steroid(hormone)?

[Rx GEAR]

Great advice from testomaster.