HRT Delima...

[muscle74]

Hey guys. New to the group and glad to join.

6wks ago I just started HRT, I'm 34 and my first blood tests revealed my free and total test was almost none. I jacked up my body with the gear in my teens and 20s.

I am on 15g of andro gel/day (using a transdermal agent with) and my blood work comes back with no improvement, maybe because I skip my AG before the test. My Doc wants to put me on cyp (400mg/wk) shots on my next visit.

Any advice?

Thanks-
J

[ZonaDave]

Hey guys. New to the group and glad to join.

6wks ago I just started HRT, I'm 34 and my first blood tests revealed my free and total test was almost none. I jacked up my body with the gear in my teens and 20s.

I am on 15g of andro gel/day (using a transdermal agent with) and my blood work comes back with no improvement, maybe because I skip my AG before the test. My Doc wants to put me on cyp (400mg/wk) shots on my next visit.

Any advice?

Thanks-
J

do you have your numbers (with ranges) before and after you started HRT?

starting at 400mg/week would be a nice cycle but not even close to HRT. are you sure he didn't say 400mg/month?

the normal starting dose for HRT is 100mg/week and then retest 4-6 weeks later.

[natureboy]

That's a lot of test! Most guys do 100mg week. Is this your primary doc? I don't think that dose would be safe long term. My guess is he will start you off high then bring you down after a series of bloodtests. I think most Drs start out with lower doses of test then ease it up till you get to a good level.
Good luck!

[muscle74]

My levels before HRT (6wks ago) was 233 Test and 7.3 Free T, my next three tests remained about the same and 1 even lower. Again, I don't apply before my blood work. I would think my Free should still be somewhat higher. I have been traning heavy w/a high cal diet and have seen GREAT results, something is working.

Could my no Androgel before blood work skew the test that much?

My Doc said with shots I would begin in the 200-400mg/wk (I could convence 400) and from my spike he would drop me down and keep my levels from going too high or low. So yes...probably 100-200mg/wk range maintanence.

Thanks-
J

[ZonaDave]

My levels before HRT (6wks ago) was 233 Test and 7.3 Free T, my next three tests remained about the same and 1 even lower. Again, I don't apply before my blood work. I would think my Free should still be somewhat higher. I have been traning heavy w/a high cal diet and have seen GREAT results, something is working.

Could my no Androgel before blood work skew the test that much?

My Doc said with shots I would begin in the 200-400mg/wk (I could convence 400) and from my spike he would drop me down and keep my levels from going too high or low. So yes...probably 100-200mg/wk range maintanence.

Thanks-
J

your gel dosage is too low if it's not raising your levels. blood should be drawn between 8am-10am before you apply your gel for that day.

technically your doctor is correct about the 200mg-400mg but that's to be given every 2-4 weeks respectively. most doctors who specialize in HRT know weekly shots work best to avoid spikes because the half-life of Test Cyp. is 5-8 days.

[muscle74]

Thanks for the feedback.

How many days after an injection should I wait for my blood to be drawn and at what time of day? I don't want my T levels to show too high, right!

Thanks-
J

[ZonaDave]

Thanks for the feedback.

How many days after an injection should I wait for my blood to be drawn and at what time of day? I don't want my T levels to show too high, right!

Thanks-
J

you should get your blood drawn between 8am-10am the morning of your shot day but before you take your shot. your levels should be lowest at this point.

unless otherwise specified by your doctor, don't eat anything after midnight the night before (water only).

for consistent and accurate test comparison, it's very important that you get your blood drawn the same as above each time.

[flatscat]

Thanks for the feedback.

How many days after an injection should I wait for my blood to be drawn and at what time of day? I don't want my T levels to show too high, right!

Thanks-
J

At 200mg/week my total and free t results are way higher than the upper range. But it also makes it harder to control E2, and get things dialed in. I would think that if you are on HRT to improve your quality of life, and be in the upper range of normal, you should start out between 100 and 140mg's/week inj and go from there. Your doc seems like he is willing to do what is needed to get your levels up - so start out lower and work your way up if you need to. A ton of guys don't respond well to gel and find that 100mg/week of injectable works wonders for them and doesn't cause E2 problems.

[Silver-Bolt]

Personally for TRT/HRT I would have your Doc start you at 100mg/wk. Run that for 4-6 weeks and retest you levels. If your numbers look good and you feel good you are on track. If you start high and work down your body won't like it. You will get the huge hit which will spike your numbers big time. As the week goes on you will gradually start to crash. You will likely feel like crap but still have higher than normal numbers. If you start low you will feel great and gradually come down after a week. If you come down before the week is over bump up the next dose by 25mg-50mg and ride that out. If you are more active on weekends time your shot for Wednesday-Friday area so you are fully charged all weekend.

[muscle74]

Thanks guys for the advice...Zona, when I start shots I will follow what you said.

Next week is my visit. I'll keep you posted.

-J

[ZonaDave]

Thanks guys for the advice...Zona, when I start shots I will follow what you said.

Next week is my visit. I'll keep you posted.

-J

no problem man. looking forward to hearing about your results.

flatscat and silver-bolt were correct about the dosage. everyone responds to TRT a little different so it's important to start out with the minimum and slowly work your way up. this will allow your body to adjust.

i found higher doses of T just gave me more symptoms. i dropped my T dosage down to 140mg/week and i feel really good. i'm doing a saliva test next week to see what my E2 is so i can adjust my anastrozole dosage as required.

[FallenWyvern]

It is possibe that he front loading the test.

[Ntpadude]

your gel dosage is too low if it's not raising your levels. blood should be drawn between 8am-10am before you apply your gel for that day.

technically your doctor is correct about the 200mg-400mg but that's to be given every 2-4 weeks respectively. most doctors who specialize in HRT know weekly shots work best to avoid spikes because the half-life of Test Cyp. is 5-8 days.

I used to think 100 mg of Test Cyp would be way too low... let me say... sex drive is FANTASTIC for me on 100 mg every 2 weeks and getting growth/maintenance that is for all intents and purposes as good as 250 mg a week used to be when I cycled.

400 mg every 2 weeks is going to come with: major acne outbreak, major increases in cholesterol, muscle grown with such high doses is unsustainable without staying on that high dose foreever, 400 mg every 2 weeks is enough to cause estrogen to ever increase which will later provoke your doctor to lower the dose back down. Also I dont think the DEA/FDA allows that much testosterone at a time unless you are fighting full blown AIDS.

Well I was religiously taking Androgel myself, during the summer when the Florida humidity is high, pores are open, I seemed to maintain acceptable levels of testosterone , although the sex drive still sucked... even with Cialis or Levitra I could not maintain a hard on with AG to keep my stuff in her when funking... so sex for me was getting a blowie on my 1/2 softy... doctor had me do another blood test when I was using as much AG as I could, well I was so low I qualified for HRT again "with" 2 doses of AG on me!! This was a winter reading when air is dry, pores were closed and not very absorbing of the AG due to the winter season... I came in at 215 testosterone and super low on free testosterone. Doctor put me on Test Cyp and told me take 1 CC every 2 weeks. Let me say, just 2 days after the first shot, I no longer needed the Cialis or Levitra... hadnt been so hard in a year, harder then a dildo and sex drive shot THRU the ROOF. Been back on 200 MG Cyp every 2 weeks and I am wearing out my wife wanting and getting sex 6 nights a week, sometimes I give it to her with 2 cumings a night. I just couldnt be happier!!!! I have to say back when I was doing cycles of 400 mg a week, my sex drive suffered from too much testosterone and I had soft dick problems so after a few years of this, I am not interested in taking more then I need or less then I need. I just want to keep the hard dick and not need cialis or Levitra. The muscle growth, or regrowth has been awesome, I took some time off... seems 100 mg every couple weeks works very well with my past muscle memory, people lately have suggested I am taking steroid abuser levels of my testosterone, but I am not, as evidenced by my total lack of acne problems this time around and my very low cholesterol levels that currently are below 140 total cholesterol and nice high HDL levels.

[THORSZ]

I wouldn't stay at 400 for too long unless you are on a cycle. Do 100 a week and pocket the rest.

[rod_davis]

I used to think 100 mg of Test Cyp would be way too low... let me say... sex drive is FANTASTIC for me on 100 mg every 2 weeks and getting growth/maintenance that is for all intents and purposes as good as 250 mg a week used to be when I cycled.

400 mg every 2 weeks is going to come with: major acne outbreak, major increases in cholesterol, muscle grown with such high doses is unsustainable without staying on that high dose foreever, 400 mg every 2 weeks is enough to cause estrogen to ever increase which will later provoke your doctor to lower the dose back down. Also I dont think the DEA/FDA allows that much testosterone at a time unless you are fighting full blown AIDS.

Well I was religiously taking Androgel myself, during the summer when the Florida humidity is high, pores are open, I seemed to maintain acceptable levels of testosterone, although the sex drive still sucked... even with Cialis or Levitra I could not maintain a hard on with AG to keep my stuff in her when funking... so sex for me was getting a blowie on my 1/2 softy... doctor had me do another blood test when I was using as much AG as I could, well I was so low I qualified for HRT again "with" 2 doses of AG on me!! This was a winter reading when air is dry, pores were closed and not very absorbing of the AG due to the winter season... I came in at 215 testosterone and super low on free testosterone. Doctor put me on Test Cyp and told me take 1 CC every 2 weeks. Let me say, just 2 days after the first shot, I no longer needed the Cialis or Levitra... hadnt been so hard in a year, harder then a dildo and sex drive shot THRU the ROOF. Been back on 200 MG Cyp every 2 weeks and I am wearing out my wife wanting and getting sex 6 nights a week, sometimes I give it to her with 2 cumings a night. I just couldnt be happier!!!! I have to say back when I was doing cycles of 400 mg a week, my sex drive suffered from too much testosterone and I had soft dick problems so after a few years of this, I am not interested in taking more then I need or less then I need. I just want to keep the hard dick and not need cialis or Levitra. The muscle growth, or regrowth has been awesome, I took some time off... seems 100 mg every couple weeks works very well with my past muscle memory, people lately have suggested I am taking steroid abuser levels of my testosterone, but I am not, as evidenced by my total lack of acne problems this time around and my very low cholesterol levels that currently are below 140 total cholesterol and nice high HDL levels.

Nt,
After that post I feel a little awkward, the same kind of feeling you get when you stumble upon you parents having sex :-)
I was wondering at that level of Cyp. if you need or are taking AE's? If so what? Running anything else?
Thank you very much!
R

[muscle74]

Update...

I just had my visit this morning. My last test w/15g AG/Day my levels: Test 1093 and Free 37, Dr wanted to reduce my dosage. I have not felt that much of a difference lately for levels that high, in fact I would have to agree w/Ntpadude that my sex drive and wood was a wreck. Although my gym results have been great on the plus side.

I asked to be taken off the AG and Dr has put me on 100mg/wk of cyp. In a few weeks he wants me to take a blood test the day after my shot (to find my peak) and another blood test one week later before my next shot (to find my nater, or low point.) He then wants to keep my levels steady somewhere in between.
Any opinions on maybe waiting a few days after my shot before I draw blood for my "peak", in hopes that he would up my "peak" dose.

Thanks-
J

[Silver-Bolt]

Update...

I just had my visit this morning. My last test w/15g AG/Day my levels: Test 1093 and Free 37, Dr wanted to reduce my dosage. I have not felt that much of a difference lately for levels that high, in fact I would have to agree w/Ntpadude that my sex drive and wood was a wreck. Although my gym results have been great on the plus side.

I asked to be taken off the AG and Dr has put me on 100mg/wk of cyp. In a few weeks he wants me to take a blood test the day after my shot (to find my peak) and another blood test one week later before my next shot (to find my nater, or low point.) He then wants to keep my levels steady somewhere in between.
Any opinions on maybe waiting a few days after my shot before I draw blood for my "peak", in hopes that he would up my "peak" dose.

Thanks-
J

From a TRT standpoint follow your Dr's orders. That way you will know what dose you need. As you age that dose will likely need to be increased. If you are trying to get a higher dose to run a cycle then play with it.

[rctriplefresh5]

My levels before HRT (6wks ago) was 233 Test and 7.3 Free T, my next three tests remained about the same and 1 even lower. Again, I don't apply before my blood work. I would think my Free should still be somewhat higher. I have been traning heavy w/a high cal diet and have seen GREAT results, something is working.

Could my no Androgel before blood work skew the test that much?

My Doc said with shots I would begin in the 200-400mg/wk (I could convence 400) and from my spike he would drop me down and keep my levels from going too high or low. So yes...probably 100-200mg/wk range maintanence.

Thanks-
J

what were the ranges? btw its called trt not hrt.

[clozto50]

Im with Fallen Wyvern I think your doc may know his stuff.You should front load then go on trt levels.I t takes time to get steady T levels due to the long half life of test E or test C.

[ZonaDave]

Update...

I just had my visit this morning. My last test w/15g AG/Day my levels: Test 1093 and Free 37, Dr wanted to reduce my dosage. I have not felt that much of a difference lately for levels that high, in fact I would have to agree w/Ntpadude that my sex drive and wood was a wreck. Although my gym results have been great on the plus side.

I asked to be taken off the AG and Dr has put me on 100mg/wk of cyp. In a few weeks he wants me to take a blood test the day after my shot (to find my peak) and another blood test one week later before my next shot (to find my nater, or low point.) He then wants to keep my levels steady somewhere in between.
Any opinions on maybe waiting a few days after my shot before I draw blood for my "peak", in hopes that he would up my "peak" dose.

Thanks-
J

is your doc going to add HCG to your protocol?

[muscle74]

Hey Zona,

My Doc is not experienced with HCG . I asked him about incorporating it and he theory is that there is too many side effects with it from what he knows. I would consider doing it myself but I am sure it will throw off my test results.

Wed was 200mg of cyp and so far I feel some difference, today is Sunday. Next week on the day after I inj he wants a blood test and then another blood test the next week before I inject.

Last week test result on Adrogel 1093 T-level and 37 Free he wanted to reduce my dosage. At that level I felt normal, should I be insistant about staying around that T-level. Why would that kind of level be an issue?

Thanks-J

[ZonaDave]

Hey Zona,

My Doc is not experienced with HCG . I asked him about incorporating it and he theory is that there is too many side effects with it from what he knows. I would consider doing it myself but I am sure it will throw off my test results.

Wed was 200mg of cyp and so far I feel some difference, today is Sunday. Next week on the day after I inj he wants a blood test and then another blood test the next week before I inject.

Last week test result on Adrogel 1093 T-level and 37 Free he wanted to reduce my dosage. At that level I felt normal, should I be insistant about staying around that T-level. Why would that kind of level be an issue?

Thanks-J

i'm confused about your reference to androgel , i thought you're on shots now. you're not on both are you?

[FallenWyvern]

1093 is probably outside the top 95% tile range for your age. There are side effects from the conversion of test to estrogen that can be avoided by lowering your dosage.

[muscle74]

Hey Zona,

I am no longer on Androgel , last week I switched to shots (cyp).

-J

[muscle74]

What T-Levels should I be trying to attain?

[ZonaDave]

What T-Levels should I be trying to attain?

as close to the top of the range that your doc will let you get.