I need advice - HRT and not feeling well

**DSledder** · 07-12-2009, 10:23 PM

40yrs old in a few days
6'2" 250lbs, I am a very thick guy, even though those numbers sound like a fat guy i dont look fat. maybe a little lovehandle or two.
been working out about half my life
been feeling terrible lately so I looked into HRT
Ive been a little outa shape in the last few months from depression and stress.
most days I had zero energy, couldnt muster up the energy to do anything but what I had to do. sucked cause I couldnt even play with my kids most of the time.
had blood work done and found my T level to be at 191. everything else normal except chol a little high which I know I can drop with better diet.
I started eating better and working out again.
I work out 6 days a week around 5pm and go bike riding and running at about 8pm with the family.
I have read much on diets on here and have adapted to what I see you guys doing.
My diet consists of lean proteins nuts fruits vegs *****3s multivits etc.... and I am eating plenty to feed whatever needs my body has now.
I was put on an HRT presc program which is
200mg test c / 200mg deca 1xw
estr blockr 2xw
hcg 2x wk on 5th and 6th day

Im on week 3 and 1/2

libido is up which is great cause it was way down.
energy level is up, (with occasional off times,) which is great, I can wrestle with the boy again among other things.
I can definitely feel my muscles getting more dense and am seeing slight visual results.

but here is the down side.
I feel kinda toxic. I feel like Im on 2 double lattes most of the time. my heart is palpitating quite a bit. I get warm sensations throughout different parts of my body. sweat is different, which I dont mind. occasional headaches which I normally dont get many.
with the shaky caffeine feeling I have I got a little nauseous at the gym the other day and felt kinda sick.
I really really want this to work. I need a change in my life. I was having anxiety and depression before and this has brought me out of that. Its extremely important that i dont fall back into that.
Maybe this is too much information, maybe I will get flamed for not being at my nat potential first. Please dont flame me. I just need some advice from those who know on how to make this work or what I can change to feel the benefits and feel great at the same time.
I have read for hours and hours on this site. I know my dosages are about half of most beginners stacks. I thought this should give me energy, libido and give me some better results at the gym as well. Please if you could give me some advice as to what might be making me feel "not so good, or toxic or making my heart beat." Maybe I need to dump or cut down the dose on the deca or the HCg? Is it possible that I will work through this in a few weeks and its just my body adapting to the gear?
Also I bought a home blood pressure machine and it usually comes in around 135-140 over about 75 to 85. My whole life my blood pressure has been slightly below normal so I know it has raised it some.

One other thing. I do get heart palpitations sometimes. Alcohol does it or stress or even prescription drugs. (all of which I am not touching during this) My sister says our family has a heart valve issue which causes palpitations and that its more of a nuisance than anything. Just wanted to mention that. I know you are all not doctors but I want to hear any advice I can at the moment. Thanks and sorry for the long post.

**flatscat** · 07-13-2009, 04:44 PM

please post the rest of your levels from your lab results

**BOB89** · 07-13-2009, 08:52 PM

I got some sleep disturbances when I started TRT then again when the doc upped my dose. I worried about it the first time and this time its leveled off in about 2 weeks.

When in doubt give them a call.

what does your workout schedule look like, I find that alot of that extra engery levels off when I get solid gym time as well.

**B EZ** · 07-14-2009, 01:37 PM

Dont have much advice bcuz Im fairly new to all this, however; i just wanted to say your not alone. I been on very similar HRT for almost 3months. (200mg Test C, 300mg Deca , Thyroid (armour), 2 estrogen blockers, HCG 2x week). Overall I have felt great (increased energy & sex drive, added muscle, lost some fat) but last 2weeks ive been having minor mood swings & although my energy level is up overall, i keep dozing off if i sit still for more than 15minutes. Also started having Heart Palpitations (no pain or discomfort, just flutters). It became so prevelent throughout the day, it scared the crap outta me so I went to the hospital. Bloodwork came back fine, they made me wear a Holter monitor for 24hours but everything came back good. They said its just Palpitations, nothing to worry bout, but I never had that before. I still havent informed my HRT doc cuz I have benefited so much from this program (not just muscle, just overall quality of life). Hopefully its just like you said, our bodies adjusting to the new levels.

**ZonaDave** · 07-14-2009, 02:42 PM

since i increased my dose to 200mg/week i've been notiing heart flutters too. i have a heart murmur but never notice it. the flutters i get now take my breath away for a second or two then it's gone but i get it several times throughout the day and night.

i'm meeting with my doc today so i'll see what he says about it.

**DSledder** · 07-14-2009, 05:28 PM

I went to see a DR, not my pcp, at an instacare. I told him my whole story and a lot about my life. When I was done he told me that what I described to him was an exact description of Anxiety. I have had a lot of anxiety in the past couple years because of business and some bad contractors who ****** me off. He said the hormones were taking my anxiety and making it come out because the T emphasizes everything. He gave me a prescription for lorzapam and said I should look into going on celexa. I dont like the celexa thing because I dont want anything I have to take daily and the lorzapam has helped me to sleep. The heart palps are still there as much as ever and my BP is up a little more, 140s and high 80s. Under the advice of my HRT clinic Im going to cut out my deca for this weeks inj and see if that helps. But its a lot of comfort to know my heart is fine and when I cant sleep I can take a lorzapam, which are way more mild than the Zanax I had before.

**flatscat** · 07-14-2009, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by flatscat

please post the rest of your levels from your lab results

again

**DSledder** · 07-14-2009, 09:35 PM

which levels? my lab report is quite long

**Papa Smurf** · 07-15-2009, 07:00 AM

Hey Bro! Hate ta break this to you, but the effects of the cyp or the deca want take effect until weeks 5 or 6. The deca could be longer still. 3 1/2 weeks?
You will get some more sex drive, and feel stronger in the gym, but that is mostly in your head.

I wouldnt take cyp and deca together for the first time, even if it were a REAL cycle. Cant believe you clinic put you on both.
Drop deca, and give the cyp a chance to work. But hold on to that deca script, because that stuff is great for a good cycle, if you ever want to run one.

The cyp is gonna take about 2 to 3 months to get your blood levels stable. You will be up and down for a while. Just keep gettin blood work done and monitor your results and how you feel.

Dont give up! TRT changed my life!

**DSledder** · 07-15-2009, 01:16 PM

You may be right papa smurf. But I do feel like I have more energy and Im almost back to my bench max in only a couple weeks so I feel like Im gaining faster then ever. Or at least I am getting back to my best a lot quicker. If I have yet to experience the results then that is just good for me. WITHOUT question libido is up though, morning wood could knock a hole in a cinder block!

**Papa Smurf** · 07-15-2009, 01:46 PM

Glad the TREES are growing! LOL Dont hurt anyone with that thing. The deca will take awhile to clear your system, at least 2 weeks.

If you do consider ever running deca again, for HRT, or on a blast cycle, you may want to check out the forums on deca dick. Deca can cause prolactins to build in your system, like all 19 nor will do, ie Deca, Tren . This will cause that morning wood to turn into a noodle.
Way it normally happens, you can get an erection, but you cant maintain it. Caber can help in these times.

Good luck with your HRT and I wish you the best!

**flatscat** · 07-15-2009, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by DSledder

which levels? my lab report is quite long

Total T
Free T
E2 (Estradiol)
SHBG
LH
FSH

and ranges

BF%

**flatscat** · 07-15-2009, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by Papa Smurf

Hey Bro! Hate ta break this to you, but the effects of the cyp or the deca want take effect until weeks 5 or 6. The deca could be longer still. 3 1/2 weeks?
You will get some more sex drive, and feel stronger in the gym, but that is mostly in your head.

I wouldnt take cyp and deca together for the first time, even if it were a REAL cycle. Cant believe you clinic put you on both.
Drop deca, and give the cyp a chance to work. But hold on to that deca script, because that stuff is great for a good cycle, if you ever want to run one.

The cyp is gonna take about 2 to 3 months to get your blood levels stable. You will be up and down for a while. Just keep gettin blood work done and monitor your results and how you feel.

Dont give up! TRT changed my life!

I agree - can't imagine the Deca first go around starting on trt. It took me about 4 weeks to really feel the effects of the increased cyp although sex drive started going up about week 2.

**zaggahamma** · 07-15-2009, 10:47 PM

my advice...back your dose down to 150mg test 150 deca ....give that a try...200 a bit high anyway for long term....your blood pressure is a tad high maybe the 150/150 will be perfect for you
welcome to ar

**DSledder** · 07-16-2009, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by flatscat

Total T - 191 - 241-827
Free T - 5.8 - 8.7-25.1
E2 (Estradiol) - 13 - 0-53
SHBG - 19 - 13-71
LH - 5.8 - 1.5-9.3
FSH - 4.9 - 1.4-18.1

and ranges

BF% - havent check prob 20-22%.

I edited your quote with the info. thx for the help.

today I injected only the Test cyp so Ill see if the heart calms down.

**flatscat** · 07-17-2009, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by DSledder

I edited your quote with the info. thx for the help.

today I injected only the Test cyp so Ill see if the heart calms down.

I think you are figuring out what I am going to say already.

When your protocol (especially your first one) has so many moving parts it is almost impossible to figure out which one is doing what. I am glad your Doc is so progressive though - be glad for that.

See your cyp will increase total and should/could increase free and E2
your AI should increase free t and reduce E2
HCG should increase total and free t and may increase E2
Add in the Deca and ....on and on.

I would do just what you did - drop the Deca for now. Your E2 looks low - but may be in line with your low T. I would wait to take the AI until you have your next follow up blood work - or if you feel like you need it you can also do the online test for E2 to see where you are (I think Zonadave did this a couple of weeks ago). HCG is up to you - some take it every week and some wait and run it on occasion. Either way you will want to run it and the amount you have will probably be enough to run it heavy for a couple of weeks in 10 or 12 weeks - you can research a lot of different protocols here. Or, you can just follow your Doc's orders - he is an MD and I am not. And there are many others here that have way more time on TRT than I do - so maybe they will chime in as well

Either way, Good luck

Flats

**ZonaDave** · 07-17-2009, 06:00 PM

i did the ZRT Lab saliva test for FreeT and E2 but i'm not sure how accurate they are. there are alot of mixed opinions about testing saliva. the tests are only $35 each so it was worth a shot. i might try one again when i get things balanced out. my bloodwork is covered by my new clinic so i can get everything tested as often as my doc wants but the ZRT seems like a cheap alternative when trying to dial in E2.

**lovbyts** · 07-19-2009, 04:16 AM

Wow, they gave you Deca too???? PLS tell me who your doc is.

**zaggahamma** · 07-19-2009, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Wow, they gave you Deca too???? PLS tell me who your doc is.

i think the anti aging clinics have compound pharmacies still making nandralone

**lovbyts** · 07-21-2009, 04:47 AM

Im changing docs soon. LOL Actually I think I really am, mine is to far away and I just found out I have some CLOSE to me.

**DSledder** · 07-24-2009, 06:19 PM

Well Im feeling better. I got some muscle relaxers from my pcp and I use them at night to sleep if Im having trouble. I just have a heart that likes to pound and a bit of anxiety so Im adapting to it. My energy is good and my strength is up at the gym. Look forward to the continued results. Also didnt notice any dif dropping the deca so this week I went with half dose deca and still feel the same.

**amcon** · 07-24-2009, 06:28 PM

take this the right way i think with all the changes ... diet, work out, and such you are just doing alot to get you body back to where it needs to be.

my guess is that you are more on the chubby side, and not flaming ya but im 257 lbs in that pic at 16 persent bf im six foot three... so, you be the judge of how your body compition is.

i would actually back off at the gym a little not spending crazy amounts of time there and just settle in to all the changes easy... how many sets are you doing for major and minor body parts?

**DOM6** · 07-27-2009, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by flatscat

Total T
Free T
E2 (Estradiol)
SHBG
LH
FSH

and ranges

BF%

what are the last 4 tests

**Dobie-BOY** · 07-29-2009, 10:02 AM

Ya, I think 200 a week is a lil high. Especially both test and deca . I was on 200 a week and BP was a lil high. Backed down to 125 and BP is perfect, I feel better and total test is about 1000. (Can't remember free test level, but slightly above normal range). Good luck