YET ANOTHER Blood test question :)

[Sixxsixxsick]

Hey guys! I've visited these boards and amassed a TON of knowledge from you guys for the past few years, but never signed up till now. I have a question that many threads have touched on but I really have yet to find a definitive answer- first a bit about me:

I'm 38, male, 6'3/300, bf%35
I have worked out for almost 20 years and am very familiar with our "lifestyle". I USED to weight train 4 days a week-1.5hrs a day with cardio on off days. 2 years ago, I was 258 w/ 21%bf- keep in mind, I have no aspirations for competitions- I just want to look great, feel great, and be the biggest mofo in the room Anyways.. 2 years ago (Feb 2007) I tore my right rotator cuff at work. Amazingly, 6 months into rehab after reconstructive surgery, I partially tore my LEFT cuff!! I couldn't believe it! What horrible luck!! To make matters even worse- my right shoulder had to be scoped 8 months ago to remove some excess scar tissue that was irritating my joint.

Fast forward to June 2009- after extensive rehab, and over a YEAR of no lifting, I found myself a fat, depressed, 38 year old with 2 surgically repaied shoulders. My family doctor (in my yearly physical) found my Test lvl was 330 which he deemed low and Androgel was prescribed (10mg/day). A subsequent blood test found only a slight increase in T lvls so I was referred to an endo.

My endo ordered a blood test for then next week and told me to stop the androgel immediatley. Well.. as I said, I do know abit about how T lvls can bottom out the day after an Androgel application, so..I kinda didn't stop Andro until 2 days before the blood test- thus my T level was 138!! This is the test of an 80 year old man! I was ordered to use 100mg Test Cyp IM per week. 6 weeks later I tested at 493. She said I could up it to 200mg/week (YAY!) and retest in 6 weeks. Here are the results:

TEST- 871 (241-827)
RBC- 5.87 (4.20-5.40)
HEMOCRIT- 47.6 (37.0-47.0)
MONO% 11.1

As you can see, I am a bit over the line of ordinary and she called me last week and said for me to go down to 150mg/week for the retest in 4 weeks..

HERE'S MY ISSUE/PROBLEM:

I shot 200mg last week and plan to do 200mg again this week. Knowing the half life of test cyp, my plan is to then shoot 150mg next week and 100mg the week before my next blood test. I need my T levels to come in around 450-650. While I know this is a shot in the dark, what do you guys think of this plan?

Obviously, I care about my health and from all medical docs I can find, my RBC and Hemocrit are not dangerously high, and I feel better and am seeing results (slowly) on 200mg/week so I dont want to go down to even 199mg/week.

Help me guys! I know the vast majority of you on TRT shoot less the week of your blood test, but these Doctors aren't morons- if 100 puts my test @493 and 200 puts me @871, I'm sure she assumes 150 will equal 700ish. I want it to be less.

Ok.. your turn!

[flatscat]

Are you taking anything else - an AI and or HCG?

I would bump down for the next three weeks for sure if your answer to the above is no.

[Sixxsixxsick]

Are you taking anything else - an AI and or HCG?

I would bump down for the next three weeks for sure if your answer to the above is no.

Nope- nothing else but test cyp. You think I should cut the dose for the next three weeks? Hmm.. to what dose? 150 per week prolly gonna make test in 600-700 range and then Dr will certainly want me to stay at 150/wk. I'm trying to get it to look like 200/week is best.

Any other ideas? Thx for your input, bro!

[flatscat]

Your endo has you nailed bro - she has the results at 100 and at 200 - so you are right to assume that 150 should put you around 700ish. My advise is to do what the doc says this time and see where you come in. You can always argue the point that upper range does better for you. I really dont think 871 is that high - suprised she wanted you to drop down from that.

Remember that when and if you add in an ai or hcg your t numbers should go up a little more.

Has she said anything about an AI or HCG? And have you had your E2 checked when you do your labs?

[Sixxsixxsick]

Your endo has you nailed bro - she has the results at 100 and at 200 - so you are right to assume that 150 should put you around 700ish. My advise is to do what the doc says this time and see where you come in. You can always argue the point that upper range does better for you. I really dont think 871 is that high - suprised she wanted you to drop down from that.

Remember that when and if you add in an ai or hcg your t numbers should go up a little more.

Has she said anything about an AI or HCG? And have you had your E2 checked when you do your labs?

Thanks for your reply, bro! I agree with you that she has me nailed..I shot 200 last week and cut it back to 150 tonight, and will do 130mg/week for the next 2 weeks before the next labs. I don't know if 130 vs 150 will make a big difference, though.

You've got a great point about me being able to argue that 200 made me feel better- in fact, I had laid the groundwork for that before she gave me the results from the 200mg/week labs- she asked me "first off, how do you feel on 200mg/week?" I said "200/wk has me feeling ALOT better than the 100/wk, but I'm still not where I used to be as far as mood overall. I guess I'm about 85%. I feel like we should try 250/wk". LOL! That's when she was like "umm, no. You're going to have to cut down a bit to 150".

As far as the AI/HCG/E2, she hasn't even MENTIONED either, and I'm trying to play the uninformed guy role and not raise her suspicions, but I do agree that I need to find a way to bring these up. I NEED my test lvls higher!! Any suggestions?

[flatscat]

As you lower your bf, you will have less aromatization of t to e which should help overall in how your body takes in and has available the added injected t.

Concentration on the large muscle groups is said to raise t as well.

Search diet and macros for those things and ratios that are supposed to help.

Tell your doc you would like a more extensive panel next time you go for blood work.

Be carefull with your rbc and hemocrit bro. How is your bp?

[Sixxsixxsick]

As you lower your bf, you will have less aromatization of t to e which should help overall in how your body takes in and has available the added injected t.

Concentration on the large muscle groups is said to raise t as well.

Search diet and macros for those things and ratios that are supposed to help.

Tell your doc you would like a more extensive panel next time you go for blood work.

Be carefull with your rbc and hemocrit bro. How is your bp?

GREAT ADVICE on the lowering bf% helping with t>e conversion rate! I never even thought about that.. I'm embarrassed at the %bf I'm lugging around, but honestly, until 2 weeks ago I wasn't even "allowed" to lift more than 15lbs due to the past cuff surgeries. When I did restart training Sept4th, I was AMAZED at how easily it came back to me..I actually attempted a few max lifts yesterday and was hammer curling 50lbs per hand for 6 reps!! Laugh if you want, but this is HUGE for me (before injuries I was doing 65's for 8-10)!!

Although my body looks like a phucking marshmallow atm, I do understand dieting and protein needs- right now I'm targeting 400g protein/day with fat grams between 5-10 and have cut all but clean carbs from my diet. I realize this is not the BEST plan, but considering on average I consumed about 5000 cals/day whilst sitting my fat ass on the couch in rehab, this is a pretty big step!

Oh, and concerning the rbc and hematocrit lvls- I spoke with my family Dr (he referred me to endo) and she said my values are "normal/high" and said they were actually nothing to worry about unless they increased. I'll definetly keep my eye on them. Also, my bp is REALLY good- 125/68 this am. My family Dr is really cool and he told me during my last physical (May2009) when my weight hit 330 that "you are the healthiest fat guy I've ever seen"!

I appreciate all your input, dude! After being out of the "lifestyle" for so long, I need a few refreshers! Believe me, man, I'm burning up this damn site and the "search" button!

[Vettester]

Keep up the good work! It sounds like you're really doing some homework with the research and everything to make improvements. I agree with Flatscat all the way, he hit the nail on just about everything. The BF can come down, as you already know, so just keep some intense cardio sessions going with the diet. And like Flatscat said, ask for an extensive panel on your blood work, and just tell the doctor that you did some homework and read that a lot of of people on TRT appear to be using a product called Arimidex to help with estrogen. I think most docs can appreciate that you're trying to learn this stuff, so hopefully it can work at that angle. In my case, I'm taking a break after 12 weeks of Test C (200mg/wk) and will be on HCG for a few weeks before starting back up. Hopefully your doctor will have a few options to help you meet your goals.

Good luck

[Sixxsixxsick]

Keep up the good work! It sounds like you're really doing some homework with the research and everything to make improvements. I agree with Flatscat all the way, he hit the nail on just about everything. The BF can come down, as you already know, so just keep some intense cardio sessions going with the diet. And like Flatscat said, ask for an extensive panel on your blood work, and just tell the doctor that you did some homework and read that a lot of of people on TRT appear to be using a product called Arimidex to help with estrogen. I think most docs can appreciate that you're trying to learn this stuff, so hopefully it can work at that angle. In my case, I'm taking a break after 12 weeks of Test C (200mg/wk) and will be on HCG for a few weeks before starting back up. Hopefully your doctor will have a few options to help you meet your goals.

Good luck

Thanks for the input, dude! I will ask her about the arimidex when I go back in for the next labs- I think you're right that if I simply go the "I'm trying to learn as much as I can about my condition" approach she should be cool with that. Great advice!

[Vettester]

When I was trying to get all of this stuff done right with my first doctor, I told her that I did a lot of research with Medical Journal and other online medical research tools, which I knew would butter her up on the approval charts. If I told her the exact same information was gathered on a anabolic steroid site, she wouldn't have given me any consideration. I've got a wild story about this doc, the endo, and my hormone clinic, which I'll post here very soon. It's kind of crazy how it all works out sometimes.