not feeling great yet on trt

[StuckinFla]

test levels started off really low @ 190 with estradiol 36. I had all of the symptoms that go along with low test.

got script for 200mg weekly injections. gradually worked my way up there over 4 weeks from 100mg wk. @ 200 i felt terrible, tried one dose of 250mg wk and felt like i had a hangover for a week. took 200mg wk for about a month

went to pcp doc for blood test. for some reason he didn't do estradiol. cholesterol was 204. total test was 231. that was about 5 days after last injection. felt lousy

self dropped my dosage down to 120mg per week and felt better. morning wood was all there. not feeling great though. I stayed at this level for about a month.

went to endo who did full test.. about 4 days after last injection. he started talking about sleep apnea decreasing pituitary action...etc sounds like bs and then he didn't check LH. anyway i'm wondering if the estradiol could be the problem. started high for natural test level/now is at high end of range. certainly things are better at the lower dosage.

total test 508 range 250-1100
free test 144 range 46-224
bio av test 277 range 110-575
shbg 12 range 8-48
albumin 4.2 3.6-5.1

psa .4
estradiol 45 13-54
cholesterol 188 <200

the following were low:
hdl cholesterol 32 >40
alkaline phosphatase 36 40-115
iron saturation % 19 20-50

the following were high:
triglycerides 285 <150
red blood cell 5.96 4.2-5.8
hemoglobin 18 13.2-17.1
hematocrit 52.5 38.5-50

[zaggahamma]

welcome stuckinfla
unfortunately...hormones arent the only thing that control our well being...and sleep apnea would damn sure wreak havoc to your body...did he just randomly throw that out there or did he ask how you been sleeping, etc.?

i didnt see a specific question but i'm feeling you wanna know why youre not on cloud 9 from the trt alone?

wow...never seen triglycerides so high and you have a lot of numbers out of range be it low or high...

also post up your stats and diet....you mention morning wood being good...was this a problem before starting on test? how do you feel in general compared to before trt?

[zaggahamma]

welcome stuckinfla
unfortunately...hormones arent the only thing that control our well being...and sleep apnea would damn sure wreak havoc to your body...did he just randomly throw that out there or did he ask how you been sleeping, etc.?

i didnt see a specific question but i'm feeling you wanna know why youre not on cloud 9 from the trt alone?

wow...never seen triglycerides so high and you have a lot of numbers out of range be it low or high...

also post up your stats and diet....you mention morning wood being good...was this a problem before starting on test? how do you feel in general compared to before trt?

ok i see one question when i reread your post...of course an elevated estradiol could negate some of the benefits of test....you do know that a big percentage of ppl who are on trt that post here on this site take arimidex or something similar to keep estrogen(estradiol) in check so that the test has more benefit....but you got a lot of numbers out of range as i said above.

best of luck you'll get more members chiming in and helping and offering advice but prolly want your stats and diet

[Vettester]

I agree with JPKMAN. Don't discount the sleeping issues, if indeed you're seeing problems with it.

How's your blood pressure and heart rate? Are you drinking at all? And, are there any other family members with similar conditions, diabetes, thyroid issues, etc.? Telling us your stats, along with a little information on your lifestyle would help greatly.

Usually, a good exercise routine, along with a proper diet including Omeg3 enriched foods and supplements will curb the triglycerides from getting out of control. Being you have some elevated estrogen concerns and triglyceride issues, I'm banking that there's probably some excess weight that needs to be shed. Now if you tell me that you're 10%BF with a sculptured physique, then I'll really be scratching my head!

[flatscat]

test levels started off really low @ 190 with estradiol 36. I had all of the symptoms that go along with low test.

got script for 200mg weekly injections. gradually worked my way up there over 4 weeks from 100mg wk. @ 200 i felt terrible, tried one dose of 250mg wk and felt like i had a hangover for a week. took 200mg wk for about a month

went to pcp doc for blood test. for some reason he didn't do estradiol. cholesterol was 204. total test was 231. that was about 5 days after last injection. felt lousy

self dropped my dosage down to 120mg per week and felt better. morning wood was all there. not feeling great though. I stayed at this level for about a month.

went to endo who did full test.. about 4 days after last injection. he started talking about sleep apnea decreasing pituitary action...etc sounds like bs and then he didn't check LH. anyway i'm wondering if the estradiol could be the problem. started high for natural test level/now is at high end of range. certainly things are better at the lower dosage.

total test 508 range 250-1100
free test 144 range 46-224
bio av test 277 range 110-575
shbg 12 range 8-48
albumin 4.2 3.6-5.1

psa .4
estradiol 45 13-54
cholesterol 188 <200

the following were low:
hdl cholesterol 32 >40
alkaline phosphatase 36 40-115
iron saturation % 19 20-50

the following were high:
triglycerides 285 <150
red blood cell 5.96 4.2-5.8
hemoglobin 18 13.2-17.1
hematocrit 52.5 38.5-50

Bet your bp is high - I had the same problem at 200/week. Still have high rbc and hemo. The hangover sentence really says alot. If your E2 is high, you will also have fluid retention that not help if your BP is high. Run and check it if you have not already.
Let us know and good luck!

[ZonaDave]

your triglycerides are an area of concerned and can be brought down with better eating habits.

it's not uncommon to feel "off" when you first start TRT, especially when you make drastic changes to your T dosage.

my guess is the 200mg/week drove your E2 really high which basically makes you feel like you have low T again. this is because the E2 occupies the receptors keeping the T from doing it's job. then when you dropped your dose down to 120mg you had low T high E2 which is a double whammy. it takes awhile for your body to burn off the high E2.

going by your numbers it looks like you need more T along with some Arimidex. you should also consider splitting your dose and taking two shots per week. something like 70mg 2x/week would be a good start. add .25mg of adex EOD and your numbers should look pretty good. give it at least 4-6 weeks for your levels to stabilize.

[deadmonikor]

OP I can't speak for anyone else, but as you've previously read it could be a thousand things.

One question I have is How long have you been on TRT? I started back in late May. A couple shots in, I felt like a champion then totally deflated. Finally, about mid-August, I felt consistently better. I'm 37 and just now feel like I have the mindset to lift and diet consistently.

My story may not be the same as yours. I went through YEARS of misdiagnosis (docs giving me SSRI's, SNRI's, Xanax, Klonopin, Cialis, Viagra, you name it, etc.). Finally I was referred to a uro, he gave me the needle out of the gate. I'm overweight, so apnea is an issue. Like a PP said lack of rest can wreak havoc on your body.

It's almost November, but the gains I've had have come in a total reduction of meds (I was on 6 scripts, now down to Test Cyp only and Adderall 2x/day for ADD), emotional stability, no anxiety. I feel better most of the time.

My levels were similar to yours. High Triglicerides (still borderline), liver levels all messed up (fatty liver) are now normal. Finally, I am starting to "feel" good. If you do have apnea? Wear the mask, lose the weight. It sucks, but it will bring you to a better place ultimately. My diet is new. It's hard, but in 6 months I will be a better man than today.

I've received a lot of good information from this forum and I appreciate it.

[zaggahamma]

OP I can't speak for anyone else, but as you've previously read it could be a thousand things.

One question I have is How long have you been on TRT? I started back in late May. A couple shots in, I felt like a champion then totally deflated. Finally, about mid-August, I felt consistently better. I'm 37 and just now feel like I have the mindset to lift and diet consistently.

My story may not be the same as yours. I went through YEARS of misdiagnosis (docs giving me SSRI's, SNRI's, Xanax, Klonopin, Cialis, Viagra, you name it, etc.). Finally I was referred to a uro, he gave me the needle out of the gate. I'm overweight, so apnea is an issue. Like a PP said lack of rest can wreak havoc on your body.

It's almost November, but the gains I've had have come in a total reduction of meds (I was on 6 scripts, now down to Test Cyp only and Adderall 2x/day for ADD), emotional stability, no anxiety. I feel better most of the time.

My levels were similar to yours. High Triglicerides (still borderline), liver levels all messed up (fatty liver) are now normal. Finally, I am starting to "feel" good. If you do have apnea? Wear the mask, lose the weight. It sucks, but it will bring you to a better place ultimately. My diet is new. It's hard, but in 6 months I will be a better man than today.

I've received a lot of good information from this forum and I appreciate it.

welcome bro...good advice...thanks for the example...yes those masks are a life saver to some (c pap)

[StuckinFla]

ah, finally got back on here. this site is blocked at school. back in college full-time trying to finish up degree.
well, i was wondering if the estradiol @ 45 is a problem. Its double the 30:1 ratio that seems to be acceptable. i def feel a little bloated.

i'm 38. 220lbs. as far as body, i do need to loose a good deal. mostly flab. its always been a struggle. prob need to drop an honest 40. lifted on and off over the years and was never able to build any muscle mass or maintain anything. just gave up. had untreated low test through these years though. the only time i had any success lifting, back in my mid twenties i got a couple bottles of androsteindione when it was legal.

as far as diet goes, i generally don't eat junkfood or sweets, no cokes or sugary stuff. bread i eat daily. I mostly cook at home. seems like i eat normally. fairly balanced. not a big over-eater. I guess i just have a problem with burning off the sugars from carbs...maybe i can cut those back.

that triglyc is high. bad for heart. my pb and hr are both fine. hr is always kind of slow (50's) although i'm not a runner. no similar problems in family. just cancer, cardiac issues.

as far as morn wood, not that often before trt. when i went up to 200mg it stopped. when i backed off it returned.

sleep, I sleep but usually toss and turn at night. usually wake up really tired. i have a deviated septum. maybe that causes problems.

exercise hasn't been what i'd like it to be. i ride my bike regularly, hate running but will on occasion. haven't lifted in quite a while. hard to stay active in college. to damn much work.

got follow up with endo tomorrow. will talk about e2/t levels. see about adex or nolva. he was talking about dumping T before the tests and doing cpap if apnea was the problem. eh we'll see. insurance pays for test. apnea testing goes to a huge deductible.

[zaggahamma]

apnea testing goes to a huge deductible.[/QUOTE]

yep....reason why i've never done a sleep study....that needs to change as important is sleep is to the health
good luck bro

[ZonaDave]

E2 can definately be a problem at that level. some guys are fine at that level while others need to be in the low 20's to feel good.

managing E2 can make or break TRT and should always be tested for when bloodwork is done.

adex is strong stuff and does an amazing job in dropping your E2 so not alot is needed to be effective.

[StuckinFla]

well i saw the doc yesterday. said i've been researching things on a trt forum. not surprised that he said "I bet they told you to take hcg" and "thats not mainstream medicine" when i asked about adex/nolva. he claimed they do nothing. i argued about e2 level in relation to test. blah..."its in the normal range, its fine"... dr.'s get a little arrogant when it comes to non dr. information. well, told him i can't do the tests for a while. so he said just continue on your test at the level you felt good on.

i'll bump it to 140. i actually have some adex from my pcp, but held off trying to get things right w/o it. stuff is expensive! i'll go w/o it for a couple of weeks and see if things balance out, try to cut out some carbs and up the exercise.

[Merc.]

well i saw the doc yesterday. said i've been researching things on a trt forum. not surprised that he said "I bet they told you to take hcg" and "thats not mainstream medicine" when i asked about adex/nolva. he claimed they do nothing. i argued about e2 level in relation to test. blah..."its in the normal range, its fine"... dr.'s get a little arrogant when it comes to non dr. information. well, told him i can't do the tests for a while. so he said just continue on your test at the level you felt good on.

i'll bump it to 140. i actually have some adex from my pcp, but held off trying to get things right w/o it. stuff is expensive! i'll go w/o it for a couple of weeks and see if things balance out, try to cut out some carbs and up the exercise.

Yea .. I work in a lab ( and also work with some endos ).. Most Docs are not going to prescribe something if your blood levels are in range .. Some wont even if your levels are slightly elevated ( I see this all the time)..

Their theory is they dont want to start you on another drug ( say Adex or some sorta AI ) that could possibly add side effects ( unless it is really called for).. Now sure there are doc's that will write a script for anything .. But I just wanted to give you some insight as to why he didnt want to give you a script for it... As far as adex and nolva not doing anything .. Thats total BS they are very strong drugs mostly used to treat breast cancer ..

You might wanna consider seeing a Endocrinologist or another doc that has done more research ...

Also dont EVER mention to a DR that you read this or that on a Internet forum.. As soon as they hear that - they get like offend or something ..

They are thinking I went to Med School and this guy is telling me he learned on the internet ( so it turns them off ).. Rather its best to say something like I spoke to my friend on the phone ( Who is a MD ) and he told me to ask you about this and that ... You will get a much better reaction from him..

And heres a link to my bloodwork sticky which has a lot of good info about bloodwork levels.. It is a long read but here it is if you wanna check it out ..

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=254423



Merc.

[Merc.]

Make sure to plase keep us posted ....



Merc.

[oakdad]

You might want to see where your prolactin levels are at.