One day after first Test E shot and I'm grumpy as hell...

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11-18-2009, 02:40 PM
subnet

One day after first Test E shot and I'm grumpy as hell...

Feel like ripping everyone's head off - grumpy as hell and real irritable. Took my first Test E injection yesterday after being on Testim for a week. Was extremely tired last night and actually had a long sleep (8+ hours) so it's not lack of sleep.

I thought I remember reading that it could be a spike in Estrogen level due to the shot yesterday? If it is from the injection (200mg Test E), should I expect this after the next one? I'm planning to switch to weekly which I'm guessing should help if it's indeed the problem?

:0icon_pis
11-18-2009, 03:40 PM
Vettester

Subnet, it was probably just one of those days where nothing was going right. It had to be something else going on.
11-18-2009, 04:20 PM
subnet

hehe - ok vetteman! I'm not trying to look into everything being an issue since I've started TRT, but ever since I woke up today, I've been p!ssed at everything and much worse than in many, many months. I'll r e l a x :)

thanks!!
11-18-2009, 04:52 PM
stack_it

Quote:

Originally Posted by subnet

hehe - ok vetteman! I'm not trying to look into everything being an issue since I've started TRT, but ever since I woke up today, I've been p!ssed at everything and much worse than in many, many months. I'll r e l a x :)

thanks!!

If you have it in your head that your going to be grumpy and irratated from the stuff than it's gonna happen. Relax and enjoy your new energy.
11-18-2009, 10:36 PM
ZonaDave

i've had a few bad days like that while on TRT. it could be just one of those day but it could also be hormone imbalance.

the week before my wife's period i can't do anything right, the week after her period i can do no wrong...lol

large shots of T tend to convert to E2 quickly. smaller, more frequent shots are better for controlling the spikes.
11-18-2009, 11:38 PM
subnet

I'm really thinking it's unbalanced hormones, as I didn't get grumpy, I WAS grumpy and irritated, I knew I was and I almost relished the fact that I was pissed off and irritated, and couldn't do anything about it. Weird though.

Can't wait to get my bloodwork done next Saturday (10 days or so) or Monday, then I can tell the Dr. I'm going to do the weekly injections. I know I'll probably feel like shit the last few days as my levels bottom-out, but just this once I know it'll be over shortly after I get blood drawn. I'm worried about my E levels but again we'll see.
11-19-2009, 01:45 AM
stack_it

If it is a hormone imbalance I believe doing twice a week would be better for you than weekly or are you currently doing every two weeks? I guess trial and error is the only way to see what works for your body tho.
11-19-2009, 01:59 AM
ZonaDave

Quote:

Originally Posted by subnet

I'm really thinking it's unbalanced hormones, as I didn't get grumpy, I WAS grumpy and irritated, I knew I was and I almost relished the fact that I was pissed off and irritated, and couldn't do anything about it. Weird though.

Can't wait to get my bloodwork done next Saturday (10 days or so) or Monday, then I can tell the Dr. I'm going to do the weekly injections. I know I'll probably feel like shit the last few days as my levels bottom-out, but just this once I know it'll be over shortly after I get blood drawn. I'm worried about my E levels but again we'll see.

when my T is higher than it should be it throws off other hormones (mainly E2) and somedays i notice myself compaining about everything. i notice myself doing it but i still want to keep going.

i recently started lowering my T dose to see if i can keep it around 800-900ish. i want to find a good T levels that makes me feel good but requires the least amount of Arimidex. i have to say that i feel alot better on the lower dose. i feel more balanced. i'm currently on 58mg 2x/week.

i'm also going to get my doc to write a script so i can take my 1mg Arimidex tabs to a compound pharmacy so they can split them up into 0.05mg capsules. this way i can take very small doses of adex to tweak my E2 (if needed). i called today and they charge $25 to split them which isn't too bad. they can only do it if they get authorization from the doc but that's not an issue with my guy.
11-19-2009, 03:42 AM
Noles12

Probably just a bad day. I hate those days where i just feel out of it and grumpy all day. I hate it but i end up taking it out on other people
11-19-2009, 09:50 AM
zaggahamma

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZonaDave

when my T is higher than it should be it throws off other hormones (mainly E2) and somedays i notice myself compaining about everything. i notice myself doing it but i still want to keep going.

i recently started lowering my T dose to see if i can keep it around 800-900ish. i want to find a good T levels that makes me feel good but requires the least amount of Arimidex. i have to say that i feel alot better on the lower dose. i feel more balanced. i'm currently on 58mg 2x/week.

i'm also going to get my doc to write a script so i can take my 1mg Arimidex tabs to a compound pharmacy so they can split them up into 0.05mg capsules. this way i can take very small doses of adex to tweak my E2 (if needed). i called today and they charge $25 to split them which isn't too bad. they can only do it if they get authorization from the doc but that's not an issue with my guy.

so theyre gonna crush the 1mg pills and use the powder to put into capsules? and you want them .05mg? 1/20 of your 1mg pill? How many and how often will you take?
11-19-2009, 01:26 PM
ZonaDave

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpkman

so theyre gonna crush the 1mg pills and use the powder to put into capsules? and you want them .05mg? 1/20 of your 1mg pill? How many and how often will you take?

well, i'm going to reduce my T first to see how low i can get my E2 naturally. what i found over the past year on TRT is my E2 and cortisol levels are more critical than my T level,for the most part that is.

i think once T is elevated close to the top of the range it's time to go to work on other hormones. i was taking .25mg 2x/week and even that low dose drove my E2 too low and i had a shit load of symptoms. this might have been caused by my T being too high for what my body was happy with.

i stopped taking adex a few weeks ago and i just started getting nocturnal erections again. i was surprised that such a low dose could drive E2 that low but it did. this made me wonder if taking larger doses of adex less frequently is like taking large doses of T, it causes some spikes.

when i get my T around 800-900 (range: 250-1100) then i will address E2 by starting off at 0.05mg EOD to stay within the half-life, then increase it to 0.1mg EOD and so on, allowing a few weeks in between for levels to stabilize.

i'm on the lowest dose of T since i started and i feel amazing so i think i'm on the right track.

i also started taking Phosphatidylserine to lower my cortisol and this could also be helping alot.
11-19-2009, 02:13 PM
subnet

ZD - I was reading on a different thread where you mentioned you were starting the phosphatidylserine to regulate your cortisol. Is it injected or oral? OTC or prescription? Something you're trying to take on a regular basis (like EOD) or just when you don't feel right?
11-19-2009, 03:25 PM
ZonaDave

Quote:

Originally Posted by subnet

ZD - I was reading on a different thread where you mentioned you were starting the phosphatidylserine to regulate your cortisol. Is it injected or oral? OTC or prescription? Something you're trying to take on a regular basis (like EOD) or just when you don't feel right?

you can buy it at health food/suppliment stores. the brand i use sells it in 100mg gel caps.

the directions say to take 1-3 times a day with meals so i went with the max because i have a strong feeling my cortisol is high. the girl at the suppliment store is on it too. she couldn't sleep at night because her mind was racing and she had anxiety. when she did fall asleep she would wake up in the middle of the night with her heart racing. sounds very familiar huh? when her doc gave her the 4x saliva test it confirmed that her cortisol was high at night. she started taking 100mg before bed and it worked to help her sleep.

i read a bunch of articles on it and figured it was worth a try. after being on it a few days i've been sleeping very well. i don't use anything else for sleep aid.

i should have my 24 urine test back early next week to see where my cortisol level is but i suspect it's high. if it is high then we have to determine if it's a tumor or self-induced. i started having libido/ED issues while going through a divorce almost 10 years ago and it had a significant impact on me because i was the one who wanted out of the relationship and i felt very guilty about it. during that time i also relocated to arizona which of course included a new job. i always thought i handled stress well but i think things got stacked up on me in a short period of time so it's very possible that my body started producing alot of cortisol in response. cortisol is definately something everyone on TRT should rule out as a cause for many symptoms. i would recommend the 4x/day saliva test or the 24 hour urine test.

i changed several things at once so it's hard to determine what has helped but it could be a combination of all. a few weeks ago i lowered my T dose from 70mg 2x/week to 58mg 2x/week, i stopped taking adex and i added the Phosphatidylserine (100mg 3x/week). i use insulin needles so that allows me to make small adjustments on my T dose.

one thing i discovered is how fast adex can drop your E2 too low. it's some strong stuff and should be used sparingly. i'm also realizing that i don't need alot of T to feel amazing. the funny part is that i have better workouts on lower T. my guess is my E2 is more stabil.
11-19-2009, 03:51 PM
subnet

great - I'll try to find a local supply and may give it a shot too. Don't want to change too many things at once, but I have an extremely stressful existance right now, and my sleep patterns sound similar. I've been taking ZMA the past month or so and it has seemed to help in the sleep department. Noticing better muscle definition too which may be from the zinc in it is knocking down my E2, and I'm getting better workouts also. Hopefully my injections will help my T kick in higher and will help as well in that department!

Definitely concerned about my cortisol levels so sounds like another thing to get the doc to check. Extremely stressful job, finishing my executive MBA which takes all my 'spare' time, wife, kids and feeling shitty from low T and possibly high E2 (and maybe cortisol) - wheeeee!
11-19-2009, 04:19 PM
ZonaDave

Quote:

Originally Posted by subnet

great - I'll try to find a local supply and may give it a shot too. Don't want to change too many things at once, but I have an extremely stressful existance right now, and my sleep patterns sound similar. I've been taking ZMA the past month or so and it has seemed to help in the sleep department. Noticing better muscle definition too which may be from the zinc in it is knocking down my E2, and I'm getting better workouts also. Hopefully my injections will help my T kick in higher and will help as well in that department!

Definitely concerned about my cortisol levels so sounds like another thing to get the doc to check. Extremely stressful job, finishing my executive MBA which takes all my 'spare' time, wife, kids and feeling shitty from low T and possibly high E2 (and maybe cortisol) - wheeeee!

the adrenal glands take a beating when under alot of stress. all these energy drinks on the market are adding to the problem. having low T makes it worse because the adrenals work harder to produce some extra T to help out. stress management is a key component for good health. most of us don't even know what the term "stress management" means.
11-19-2009, 05:15 PM
zaggahamma

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZonaDave

well, i'm going to reduce my T first to see how low i can get my E2 naturally. what i found over the past year on TRT is my E2 and cortisol levels are more critical than my T level,for the most part that is.

i think once T is elevated close to the top of the range it's time to go to work on other hormones. i was taking .25mg 2x/week and even that low dose drove my E2 too low and i had a shit load of symptoms. this might have been caused by my T being too high for what my body was happy with.

i stopped taking adex a few weeks ago and i just started getting nocturnal erections again. i was surprised that such a low dose could drive E2 that low but it did. this made me wonder if taking larger doses of adex less frequently is like taking large doses of T, it causes some spikes.

when i get my T around 800-900 (range: 250-1100) then i will address E2 by starting off at 0.05mg EOD to stay within the half-life, then increase it to 0.1mg EOD and so on, allowing a few weeks in between for levels to stabilize.

i'm on the lowest dose of T since i started and i feel amazing so i think i'm on the right track.

i also started taking Phosphatidylserine to lower my cortisol and this could also be helping alot.

such an interesting post....esp about the way youre gonna approach youre 'dex....i too havent found an exact dose yet....i feel low libido but am good to go when "seduced" so it really doesnt matter there but i like to be like a horn dog better...lol....and i too feel like it could be cuz of estro going too low but my nips get irritated so easily and i am scared of gyno and i dont have insuranc/money to test numbers either i like the small doses of 'dex more often even if i took .10 ed i would be getting less than the 1gram i take now....
11-19-2009, 06:35 PM
Ashop

Quote:

Originally Posted by vetteman08

Subnet, it was probably just one of those days where nothing was going right. It had to be something else going on.

Had to be something else going. Next day after 1 inject of test E and you wouldnt feel that way.
11-19-2009, 06:56 PM
ZonaDave

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpkman

such an interesting post....esp about the way youre gonna approach youre 'dex....i too havent found an exact dose yet....i feel low libido but am good to go when "seduced" so it really doesnt matter there but i like to be like a horn dog better...lol....and i too feel like it could be cuz of estro going too low but my nips get irritated so easily and i am scared of gyno and i dont have insuranc/money to test numbers either i like the small doses of 'dex more often even if i took .10 ed i would be getting less than the 1gram i take now....

you should give the low dose adex caps a try. i'd rather use Arimidex than to mess with research products. i know alot of people that use l-dex but i don't like gambling unless i'm in vegas.

it's bad enough trying to get dialed in as it is without adding an additional component of second guessing your meds.
11-19-2009, 07:20 PM
zaggahamma

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZonaDave

you should give the low dose adex caps a try. i'd rather use Arimidex than to mess with research products. i know alot of people that use l-dex but i don't like gambling unless i'm in vegas.

it's bad enough trying to get dialed in as it is without adding an additional component of second guessing your meds.

i think i confused my post...when i said 'dex i mean arimidex...sorry...i've never done liquidex
11-19-2009, 07:38 PM
ZonaDave

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpkman

i think i confused my post...when i said 'dex i mean arimidex...sorry...i've never done liquidex

oh ya, i got you on that before. the reason i said that was because i figured someone was going to post a comment about using l-dex because you can take it in small doses.

i used l-dex once but i always wondered if it was bunk or not.
11-19-2009, 07:54 PM
zaggahamma

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZonaDave

oh ya, i got you on that before. the reason i said that was because i figured someone was going to post a comment about using l-dex because you can take it in small doses.

i used l-dex once but i always wondered if it was bunk or not.

so u knew i meant arimidex? ok...wasnt sure...yeh i guess with how it takes quite a few squirts to make a dose you could easily take smaller doses with it but...i like the cap idea...i think i'll ask about that at the compounding pharm by me...
about wut i said taking the arimidex when nips are itchy/sensitive...does this sound familiar....weird thing is i used to take 1mg every day then 1 mg eod then 1mg 3x a week a few years ago...only about a year ago i started splitting them
11-20-2009, 06:26 PM
ZonaDave

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpkman

so u knew i meant arimidex? ok...wasnt sure...yeh i guess with how it takes quite a few squirts to make a dose you could easily take smaller doses with it but...i like the cap idea...i think i'll ask about that at the compounding pharm by me...
about wut i said taking the arimidex when nips are itchy/sensitive...does this sound familiar....weird thing is i used to take 1mg every day then 1 mg eod then 1mg 3x a week a few years ago...only about a year ago i started splitting them

wow, that sounds like alot of adex but everyone responds to TRT differently. when i was on HCG it didn't really do much for me except elevated my E2 so i need lots of adex back then.

i don't get nipple sensitivity but that might because i had gyno surgery 2o years ago after doing some large cycles. back then we didn't get our blood tested and we didn't take an AI for E2 control so i'm not surprised about getting gyno.

this might explain "roid" rage episodes. keeping on thread topic, i believe E2 has more of an affect on moods and symptoms than T does...providing T is in a good range that it is.
11-20-2009, 08:52 PM
zaggahamma

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZonaDave

wow, that sounds like alot of adex but everyone responds to TRT differently. when i was on HCG it didn't really do much for me except elevated my E2 so i need lots of adex back then.

i don't get nipple sensitivity but that might because i had gyno surgery 2o years ago after doing some large cycles. back then we didn't get our blood tested and we didn't take an AI for E2 control so i'm not surprised about getting gyno.

this might explain "roid" rage episodes. keeping on thread topic, i believe E2 has more of an affect on moods and symptoms than T does...providing T is in a good range that it is.

an asshole before steroids might be a lil more of an asshole but dont buy it transforming ppl like david banner and his green counterpart
11-21-2009, 05:37 PM
ZonaDave

the thing i notice when my E2 is out of range too far is things that would normally never bother me all of the sudden bug the crap out of me.
11-22-2009, 09:47 AM
subnet

nice avatar ZD :)

I'm glad to hear that there might be a connection, and therefore some way to control it. Going to get more bloodwork next week at either day 11 or day 13 after 200mg of Test E, and expect the results to be low T and high E. After this, I'm also expecting to get an AI and start the AI fidgeting process (.025 EOD etc.). Also going to go weekly Test E too. Like you all have said, it typically just takes a while to get things sorted out and find out what your body needs.
11-22-2009, 05:11 PM
ZonaDave

Quote:

Originally Posted by subnet

nice avatar ZD :)

I'm glad to hear that there might be a connection, and therefore some way to control it. Going to get more bloodwork next week at either day 11 or day 13 after 200mg of Test E, and expect the results to be low T and high E. After this, I'm also expecting to get an AI and start the AI fidgeting process (.025 EOD etc.). Also going to go weekly Test E too. Like you all have said, it typically just takes a while to get things sorted out and find out what your body needs.

thanks man, that's a pic of my wife's ass i took this summer in the pool. latina's have the nicest asses on the planet! i'd post a full body shot but many of you would recognize her.

it sounds like you have a good plan in place for TRT. please post blood results when you can.
11-22-2009, 08:28 PM
flatscat

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZonaDave

thanks man, that's a pic of my wife's ass i took this summer in the pool. latina's have the nicest asses on the planet! i'd post a full body shot but many of you would recognize her.

it sounds like you have a good plan in place for TRT. please post blood results when you can.

Have you been holding out on us all this time Dave?
11-22-2009, 10:23 PM
ZonaDave

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatscat

Have you been holding out on us all this time Dave?

lol, not really...just can't have keywords/links from this site/topic.
11-23-2009, 05:02 PM
flatscat

oh yes you have - spill it bro
11-23-2009, 10:19 PM
ZonaDave

believe me when i say i'd like to but i can't post too much info on boards like this because search engines pick it up too fast.

on a different topic, i get my cortisol test results back tomorrow. along with E2, cortisol is a mjor player and can alter moods. it can also produce the same symptoms as low T.
11-24-2009, 08:42 AM
subnet

don't need the search engines to pick up anything on your wife - we'll just admire the view :)

definitely let us know what's up with the cortisol when you find out!
11-24-2009, 04:41 PM
ZonaDave

Quote:

Originally Posted by subnet

don't need the search engines to pick up anything on your wife - we'll just admire the view :)

definitely let us know what's up with the cortisol when you find out!

i just got my results back and posted them in a new thread.

http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-replacement-therapy-low-t-anti-aging/409212-24-hour-urine-cortisol-test.html