After alot of Reading, Still got questions on HRT

[Phatmax53]

Man I tell yall I have been reading for a long time about all different HRT topics regardless if they are related to me just to learn all I can. So I figured I would post a thread to get some specific answers to some things.

Here's my Story.

I am currently 27 yrs old. I have done 4 cycles starting at age 20 and ending at age 22( all with proper PCT ). At age 24 I went to my regular doctor and told him what I had done and I wanted to make sure my test levels were not hurt from the past cycles and wanted tested. All my test levels come back normal and everything is great. A few months ago I noticed my sex drive was nothing, wasnt getting those rock hards, my nipples hurt, felt tired and just not myself. So at my yearly physical I told my new general Dr. my symptoms and she wanted to test my levels again. She did and told me they were super low, I asked for the levels and they never got them for me but did write me a script for Testim @ 1tube a day with 150 refills. I go back in 2 weeks for blood test to re-check my levels.

I had been back in the gym for 5 months straight and hitting it EVERY week without slacking and hadnt gained anything until the testim and now I have been getting great gains...


Questions: (not in order of importance just as they hit my head)

1. If I am on HRT for life I am fine with that but I want to be towards the high levels of test for obvious reasons, What is considered Higher natural Test? Should I tell my Dr. that I want to be towards the high end?

2. I have a 5 month old boy and one in the oven and I have also read here that secondary contact could be dangerous, Of course injections are easier IMO, but is that something I should ask my Dr. as well? What dosing would be normal HRT and what dosing would be towards the Higher end of HRT?

3. I have read that if you cycle while on HRT you dont have to do PCT, I thought that was crazy but then thought about it and said maybe thats right... So I ask now, Does cycling require PCT since your on HRT?

4. This is my question that I havent seen answered anywhere, If on HRT, can you take an oral cycle only since you dont have to worry about test suppression?

5. I have read some about different people using Nolva and Adex during HRT to keep estrogen levels in check and things not sure if thats a must or what, so any opinions on that with reasons would be great!



I know I have more questions but they are slipping my mind at the time so if you have any advice for a younger guy on HRT that knows basically nothing about it...please please let me hear what you know... anything you can tell me will help...

Thanks SO much in advance!

[Vettester]

1. If I am on HRT for life I am fine with that but I want to be towards the high levels of test for obvious reasons, What is considered Higher natural Test? Should I tell my Dr. that I want to be towards the high end?
This seems to vary, but 280-to-800 is an example of what my primary goes by. I've read posts where guys say it goes as high as 1000 & 1100. You're dealing with a female doc, so she might not relate to your wishes.

2. I have a 5 month old boy and one in the oven and I have also read here that secondary contact could be dangerous, Of course injections are easier IMO, but is that something I should ask my Dr. as well? What dosing would be normal HRT and what dosing would be towards the Higher end of HRT?
Yes, I would definitely go the route of injections. You don't want that messy crap around your family, NOT at all.

3. I have read that if you cycle while on HRT you dont have to do PCT, I thought that was crazy but then thought about it and said maybe thats right... So I ask now, Does cycling require PCT since your on HRT? No, there's really no need to PCT if you're on HRT. With a PCT, you're restoring your natural levels. If you're unable to produce it naturally, then no reason to do PCT, thus you just continue TRT throughout.

4. This is my question that I havent seen answered anywhere, If on HRT, can you take an oral cycle only since you dont have to worry about test suppression? There are guys who take orals with HRT. My suggestion to you is to get your HRT program on track with your doctor first, get it dialed in, and know how your body is responding to it. You don't need any liver issues with a new family.

5. I have read some about different people using Nolva and Adex during HRT to keep estrogen levels in check and things not sure if thats a must or what, so any opinions on that with reasons would be great! AI's are used to help control the estrogen issues. Get with your doctor and get some BW first. If you have your BW stats, please post them, along with any other stats that you might want to share. When you say, "Super Low", what does that mean? (100, 200, ...)

I'm concerned why things went south with you if you did everything right and your levels were OK before. Has the doctor explored some methods to see if they can't get your natural system going again? Does she feel it's secondary, primary, or is she saying?

Let us know, we're here to help. And again, forget the orals for awhile, let's get your health and well being on track for starters.

[amcon]

Man I tell yall I have been reading for a long time about all different HRT topics regardless if they are related to me just to learn all I can. So I figured I would post a thread to get some specific answers to some things.

Here's my Story.

I am currently 27 yrs old. I have done 4 cycles starting at age 20 and ending at age 22( all with proper PCT ). At age 24 I went to my regular doctor and told him what I had done and I wanted to make sure my test levels were not hurt from the past cycles and wanted tested. All my test levels come back normal and everything is great. A few months ago I noticed my sex drive was nothing, wasnt getting those rock hards, my nipples hurt, felt tired and just not myself. So at my yearly physical I told my new general Dr. my symptoms and she wanted to test my levels again. She did and told me they were super low, I asked for the levels and they never got them for me but did write me a script for Testim @ 1tube a day with 150 refills. I go back in 2 weeks for blood test to re-check my levels.

I had been back in the gym for 5 months straight and hitting it EVERY week without slacking and hadnt gained anything until the testim and now I have been getting great gains...


Questions: (not in order of importance just as they hit my head)

1. If I am on HRT for life I am fine with that but I want to be towards the high levels of test for obvious reasons, What is considered Higher natural Test? Should I tell my Dr. that I want to be towards the high end?

2. I have a 5 month old boy and one in the oven and I have also read here that secondary contact could be dangerous, Of course injections are easier IMO, but is that something I should ask my Dr. as well? What dosing would be normal HRT and what dosing would be towards the Higher end of HRT?

3. I have read that if you cycle while on HRT you dont have to do PCT, I thought that was crazy but then thought about it and said maybe thats right... So I ask now, Does cycling require PCT since your on HRT?

4. This is my question that I havent seen answered anywhere, If on HRT, can you take an oral cycle only since you dont have to worry about test suppression?

5. I have read some about different people using Nolva and Adex during HRT to keep estrogen levels in check and things not sure if thats a must or what, so any opinions on that with reasons would be great!



I know I have more questions but they are slipping my mind at the time so if you have any advice for a younger guy on HRT that knows basically nothing about it...please please let me hear what you know... anything you can tell me will help...

Thanks SO much in advance!

question number one... 350 to 900 is considered normal, 550 in many studies have been proven to be a average for active males, if you have testostorne tests from the past reference them- if not good luck

queston number two... gels suck dont use them long term - studies also have shown a drop in absorption as time goes on, i dont know why but seemed to happen to me as well. injections are the way to go.

queston number three... yep no pct if you jump back to your hrt levels...

question number four... no, i disagree totally, you need to always be carful of pills cuz they hit the liver two times, remember the test level you take on hrt is considered what you body would normally be producing. so the levels may not be high enough for the cycle. you would have to put a cycle togather and post it up for advise.

queston number five... let you blood test dictate weather you need to block estorgen, as you learn more how you body reacts to hrt you can almost self administer the adex, nolvadex and such based on the sides you see. i doubt that you would see any sides cuz the leves you take will be what the body would normally produce any ways ... but it could build up, blood test will show that.

[Phatmax53]

Thanks for both of your replies... it really helps out...

As for my super low comment... like I said I tried to get the numbers but it was a no go this time around... when I go back to the recheck I want to try to get the first numbers and the new levels and I will post them, I have no problem doing that... I know the numbers will help you all help me.

Vetteman I was concerned too about what and why... but in my case it was: go in for physical, get blood drawn, tell her my problem, get another blood test for test levels and go home.... 4 hrs later I get a call from her nurse asking which pharmacy I wanted the Testim called into... so I didnt have a chance to discuss... I know my PCT was in check on my cycles previous... I was off for over 2 yrs when the blood test were normal... now 3 yrs later there "super low" as she stated... I hope to have a chat with her and pick her brain to find out how much she knows about treating this problem. I do want to go to the IM shots though... but if I had to rate the Gel Im about 80% satisfied with the results of it...


Anymore help is well appreciated guys!

Thanks!

PS....As for orals or cycling... that was just the curiosity in me asking for future knowledge as the gains I am getting right now are great and I feel like Im satisfied and could be satisfied for a couple yrs before going back to the dark side.

[lovbyts]

Nothing wrong with being curious, we have all been there and if you dont ask you wont know.

You might be surprissed since you have cycled before and once you start pinning and get everything on track, Diet, exercise it's only a short trip from 1cc - 2cc a week. lol

[Vettester]

Thanks for both of your replies... it really helps out...

As for my super low comment... like I said I tried to get the numbers but it was a no go this time around... when I go back to the recheck I want to try to get the first numbers and the new levels and I will post them, I have no problem doing that... I know the numbers will help you all help me.

Vetteman I was concerned too about what and why... but in my case it was: go in for physical, get blood drawn, tell her my problem, get another blood test for test levels and go home.... 4 hrs later I get a call from her nurse asking which pharmacy I wanted the Testim called into... so I didnt have a chance to discuss... I know my PCT was in check on my cycles previous... I was off for over 2 yrs when the blood test were normal... now 3 yrs later there "super low" as she stated... I hope to have a chat with her and pick her brain to find out how much she knows about treating this problem. I do want to go to the IM shots though... but if I had to rate the Gel Im about 80% satisfied with the results of it...


Anymore help is well appreciated guys!

Thanks!

PS....As for orals or cycling... that was just the curiosity in me asking for future knowledge as the gains I am getting right now are great and I feel like Im satisfied and could be satisfied for a couple yrs before going back to the dark side.

There might not be much "brain picking" when dealing with a female doc on this stuff. IMO, she should be picking your brain (literally), the petuitary to be exact, and make sure there's no evident concerns. I feel she has already done you an injustice by not going through your panel numbers with you and exploring your options. They're real quick to throw their gels and cremes out and call it good at that. The injection route is superior by far. Let us know how she responds, and how you feel thereafter. My primary is a female, but I found myself in a position having to seek out someone else due to her lacking of expertise. She wanted me to take a single monthly shot of 200mg ... Doesn't make sense, does it? Just don't be shocked if she starts telling you things that don't sound right.

[Phatmax53]

Thanks bro, I am 100% sure that the stuff posted in this thread will help me out in my decisions...

She is a very cool Dr. but I too am worried about what she knows...


Here's a question for the shot transfer...

what is equivalent to 1 Testim tube a day in terms of IM Test Shots?


again thanks so much guys!

[Phatmax53]

Thought of another question,

How long does it take Testim to stabilize?

so the current questions up are :

1. How long does it take Testim to Stabilize?

2. What is the equivalent in Test Shots to 1 Tube of Testim per day?


Thanks again!

[Phatmax53]

bumpppppppppppp

[oakdad]

Before it is to late you really need a full set of blood test done. So if you haven't had the following tested already you should probably be looking for a new doctor since you are already on the Testim.

Complete blood count and chemistry profile to include liver-kidney function, glucose, minerals, lipids, and thyroid (TSH)
Free and Total Testosterone
Estradiol (estrogen)
DHT (dihydrotestosterone)
DHEA
PSA
Homocysteine
Luteinizing hormone (LH)
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG)

From this they should be able to figure out why your T Levels are low and do Treatments Accordingly.

Now as far as your questions go. You really are not waiting for the Testim to Stabilize but your own body's T production which is sadly bound to lower as you introduce T to the system and that is why they have you wait a month before they retest you.
No idea what the equivalent of Test Shots to Testim per day is. Though the normal starting dosage for Test Cyp is one shot a week of a 100 ml. If the Testim didn't dry up your T production the shots will with out a doubt. So again it is suggested you wait another month before you get tested again. Now this time I would suggest you do a test 2 days after your shot and another test just before you take your shot. This should give you a good idea of about where you peek out at and where you bottom out at during the week. From here you can consider doing shots twice a week or once a week and if you need to increase the dosage or not. (Note: Only Add one more line on the syringe each time you up the dosage. Having to cut back really sucks.) Now you should be having your Test, E2, PSA and Prolactin tested each time you are changing your dosages or twice a year once you have your dosages dialed in. If your E2 is to high you will want to be put on an AI like Aromasin. If your Prolacin is to high you will want to be put on a Dopamine Agonist like Pramipexole. If your PSA is to high well you are kinda screwed because there is a good chance you have prostate cancer and will have to back off on the Test or quit taking it all together.

Here are some good links for you to read up on.
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=35496
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=35497
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=347127
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=83495

[Phatmax53]

Update:

Well not really but something, I had my blood tested and they sent it off and said it could take a week... But I made sure that I was going to get the actual numbers of the test levels... so ill post ASAP.

[Vettester]

Great, let us know when the results are in.

[Phatmax53]

UPDATE...

Ok... Its official I finally agree after reading a ton of members say you shouldnt get HRT for your normal family dr that an endo or specialist is where you need to go....
because getting facts and actual numbers is like getting a car dealer to give you a good amount of a trade in...

AFter clearly asking for a letter in the mail with all the numbers (asked 3 times) I get a vmail stating that my test levels when I first was tested was 121 and now after a month on Testim they are 444... Which she said is Great but I wished it was higher...

My options... Go find a Dr that specializes in this or stay...

Right now I feel great so I guess I will stick with what I got since my problem is fixed.... I know I prolly need to be tested more and see why but I guess since Im not broke right now then dont fix it :dunno:

ANyways thanks for all the help and any input is appreciated!