Crunch Time need advice!!!!

[tazmaniac1]

I just dont want to sound like a dummy, I have read, study and get more confused but sort of understand plus I dont want to beat a dead horse..........

This is the deal after quite some time low labido, consentration at work, wife complaining blah blah in the mean time joined a gym have been working out extremely hard 5 days a week 1.5-2 hrs and have really sore elbow and forearms, very good diet seeing some good gains but I still felt not right so I had blood work done asking to check testosterone which like stated before came in at 78 ng/dL..TSH 1.38...CRP .5 dont even now if the last 2 are related doc prescribed Adndogel 2.5 no change, I see a Urologist(sp) Wednesday Morning...I have good insurance which in phone conversation is thinking Test injections but in other posts you guys have stated so many different cycles, Can I suggest different cycles with out sounding like I am only looking like I am doing this for the gym!.

but I am not sure what to fight for that will benefit my personal life and give me the greatest gains in the gym. My stats are 48 years old 245lb 6'4" about 28% body fat but has come down about 2-3% in the last couple months...

Thanks again

[talstar]

Most of us are on TRT for life which involves taking a shot or shots every week of test. I take a estrogen blocker(pill) also every 3 days. A good doc is everything in my opinion so find one that has experience in TRT.

[tazmaniac1]

I guess I will find out Wednesday but how do I know if he is..This is why I need to ask the right questions which I am trying to learn in a short time bu not sound like a wise ass..and possible suggest good cycles

[Vettester]

Let us know how you make out with the other doc. Your primary doc basically just gave you the brush off with the 2.5g of AndroGel therapy. Hopefully you and the new doc can talk more on the lines of weekly injections, along with estrogen control. Just tell him you can't that sticky gel feeling, + you don't want any transfer to the wife, kids, dog, or whoever you're wrapping your arms around.

Definitely get involved with us here on this forum, where there's plenty who will help you set some goals and see it through with you. Congrats on dropping some BF ... This could be a big year for you to make some major changes.

Good luck!

[tazmaniac1]

Even before this happened my low TEST i was planning on getting in the best shape of my 48 year life and am on a good start, thanks for any advice

[lovbyts]

It's never to late. I turn 48 in October and just started almost 3 years ago after having to many excuses for 20 years not being in the gym.

Dont suggest anything to the doctor about what you would like to take or why. He will see right through it.

Only think is to ask/tell him after being on the gel for a sort time is it makes you itch, gives you a rash, you wife HATES it and you are afraid it will rub off on her or the children and he knows THEY are not supposed to have contact with it.

Dont seem eager to get on the shots but only interested because you heard/think it might be the safest way to keep your levels normal and not worried about cross contamination with others.

If you have not read the diet section yet please give it a visit. Dont get bored to quickly, there is a lot to learn. Start reading the other post. You will see a common theme, eating 6+ times a day. It makes a HUGE difference for burning fat.

[durak]

say you sweat like a pig too! (do pigs sweat?)

[lovbyts]

I defiantly perspire more than I use to but not to a point where it is uncomfortable. I do tend to get the little drops of sweat on the forehead though so be sure to carry a handkerchief or?

[zaggahamma]

say you sweat like a pig too! (do pigs sweat?)

never been that close but have used/heard the term and he'll be talkin to a doctor who will know...possibly on both ends of the spectrum

[tazmaniac1]

Thanks for the advice everyone,,I hope the appointment goes well I know my family will appreciate it..get aggrivated easy lately just not myself..I have read the diet section and watched the videos,I am eating great just trying to figure out the protein 1.5 grams is tough at 240lbs yikes. I am thinkin minimum 100mg per week of test cypionate but if he seems open to conversation should i suggest HRT instead of TRT or is this to pushy if not what would be the advantages......

[zaggahamma]

Thanks for the advice everyone,,I hope the appointment goes well I know my family will appreciate it..get aggrivated easy lately just not myself..I have read the diet section and watched the videos,I am eating great just trying to figure out the protein 1.5 grams is tough at 240lbs yikes. I am thinkin minimum 100mg per week of test cypionate but if he seems open to conversation should i suggest HRT instead of TRT or is this to pushy if not what would be the advantages......

yes that would be a lil tough AND expensive....and imo....not necessary for what you are trying to achieve...you are not body building....keep improving your diet as you say it will snowball in the right direction...the better you eat the more quality foods you will crave/enjoy..glad youre on your way bro!

[Bio-Active]

Thanks for the advice everyone,,I hope the appointment goes well I know my family will appreciate it..get aggrivated easy lately just not myself..I have read the diet section and watched the videos,I am eating great just trying to figure out the protein 1.5 grams is tough at 240lbs yikes. I am thinkin minimum 100mg per week of test cypionate but if he seems open to conversation should i suggest HRT instead of TRT or is this to pushy if not what would be the advantages......

If you want the shots all you have to do is tell the doc that after researching it. Its the only option because you have kids and you do not want the gel rubbing on them or your wife.

[tazmaniac1]

Well went to the Urologist great check up prostate great everything looks good...talked about the issue I was in for he agreed to Testo he gave me a shot 400mg of cypionate,,2 weeks blood work, 3 weeks revisit and start me on weekly injections #1 extremely happy about the personal life hopefully!! but the unkown and the advice what about my workouts which the doctor told me I should be doing.....lean muscle expectations just any advice

[zaggahamma]

Well went to the Urologist great check up prostate great everything looks good...talked about the issue I was in for he agreed to Testo he gave me a shot 400mg of cypionate,,2 weeks blood work, 3 weeks revisit and start me on weekly injections #1 extremely happy about the personal life hopefully!! but the unkown and the advice what about my workouts which the doctor told me I should be doing.....lean muscle expectations just any advice

you'll resemble cutler more and more each day now....advice....dont hurt anyone

[tazmaniac1]

you'll resemble cutler more and more each day now....advice....dont hurt anyone

who is cutler,,,and is agression a concern because I wont do it if it

[durak]

I think it may have been an incorrect post. Agression should not be an issue on trt.

[tazmaniac1]

update:
Happy dont know yet...
Seen the Eurologist 3 weeks ago agreed levels are low said he will start me out with 400mg test cyp come back 3 weeks and get a blood test. Well it has been 3 weeks didnt feel much different the gym felt better. had the blood test and he seen me today said he will gave me 500mg of test and come back in 3 weeks then he said depending how I feel he will go to 600 mg and do this every 3 weeks.I asked him rather than every three weeks how about every week he said we wont do that here but we can give you needles and prescribe for you but wasnt sure if he was being sarcastic.

So what would you do, I need weekly injections, do I take the every 3 week deal or try and find another doctor in Minnesota(any suggestion)..they helped me in the guym the first 2 weeks and at home maybe the first week....

ONE OTHER THING BEING ALITTLE FRUSTRATED
anyone ever heard of this:
http://www.bodylogicmd.com/

PSA .85 range .00-4.00ng/mL
Luteinizing <0.1 range 1.5-93miu/mL
LH Refrences
Male: range 1.5-9.3mIu/mL
prepuberty <1.0

Prolactin 3.4
Test Bio 70 range 61-213ng/dl
Test Total 392 range 240-950ng/dl

[zaggahamma]

update:
Happy dont know yet...
Seen the Eurologist 3 weeks ago agreed levels are low said he will start me out with 400mg test cyp come back 3 weeks and get a blood test. Well it has been 3 weeks didnt feel much different the gym felt better. had the blood test and he seen me today said he will gave me 500mg of test and come back in 3 weeks then he said depending how I feel he will go to 600 mg and do this every 3 weeks.I asked him rather than every three weeks how about every week he said we wont do that here but we can give you needles and prescribe for you but wasnt sure if he was being sarcastic.

So what would you do, I need weekly injections, do I take the every 3 week deal or try and find another doctor in Minnesota(any suggestion)..they helped me in the guym the first 2 weeks and at home maybe the first week....

ONE OTHER THING BEING ALITTLE FRUSTRATED
anyone ever heard of this:
http://www.bodylogicmd.com/

PSA .85 range .00-4.00ng/mL
Luteinizing <0.1 range 1.5-93miu/mL
LH Refrences
Male: range 1.5-9.3mIu/mL
prepuberty <1.0

Prolactin 3.4
Test Bio 70 range 61-213ng/dl
Test Total 392 range 240-950ng/dl

you shouldnt have left the docs office not knowing if he was sarcastic or not ESPECIALLY when you had a chance to bring your shiat home.....all i could get out of your post was your doing better in the gym but not noticing much else in the 3 weeks....

were the blood levels you posted before starting? everyone is going to tell you to get on weekly injections to answer your one question...about trying another doc well dont know if THIS one is sarcastic or not so cant answer that yet.....do us a favor and call up his office and ask..."doc, at anytime were you being sarcstic?" if he says no...IMMEDIATELY say...ok, then i'll do wut you said and take the prescriptioin for the needles and the test to do at home

btw, from the other post....jay cutler is a bodybuilder....google his name some time...it was a lil jab to your question about if you would get lean from the test

[tazmaniac1]

you shouldnt have left the docs office not knowing if he was sarcastic or not ESPECIALLY when you had a chance to bring your shiat home.....all i could get out of your post was your doing better in the gym but not noticing much else in the 3 weeks....

were the blood levels you posted before starting? everyone is going to tell you to get on weekly injections to answer your one question...about trying another doc well dont know if THIS one is sarcastic or not so cant answer that yet.....do us a favor and call up his office and ask..."doc, at anytime were you being sarcstic?" if he says no...IMMEDIATELY say...ok, then i'll do wut you said and take the prescriptioin for the needles and the test to do at home

btw, from the other post....jay cutler is a bodybuilder....google his name some time...it was a lil jab to your question about if you would get lean from the test

The blood work on the testo was done before my first injection the other tests were done 2 weeks after the first injection,

when he said he would right a script that would happen after the next injection of 600mg in 3 weeks..then I saked him how about more often the he said "well we could give you some needles and i give you a script but nobody has ever done the here". From what i get he is going by the Mayo clinic guidelines of 400mg month 500mg a month up to 600 and judge how you are doing so I am going to wait a week, I have a feeling I will have a good week but will go back...I did call my insurance and asked about scripts in general thay said as long as a doc rights a script it will be covered...dont want to piss off the doc and ask for a script right away I have only seen him twice....damn old school crap, I wouldnt mind even purchasing test for weeks 2-3(hint)

As far as the gym I definately felt stronger and felt alittle more pumped could be from water but this whole time I have a bad elbow so that has effected alot of my workouts, I got a shot of Kenalog 2 days ago hope it helps soon..

my diet is about 250 grams protein, 125 carb, 30 fat, whey protein 2 times a day BCAA's glutimine and creatine pills

ps. when i got home I did make an appointment with a endocrinologist have heard when yet I hope I am not chasing my tail

[tazmaniac1]

I know I am jumping around alittle but doing some google if found this company and has anyone ever used them???Here is a copy of the email they sent me, my insurance said they are out of network they will reinbursse me but only pay me usual and costumary, who know what the hell that would be:


http://www.bodylogicmd.com/

[Vettester]

Taz, I just don't quite get what your objective is here. If you're going to switch, then switch. We don't necessarily need a complete copy & paste from any of the anti aging clinics.

Also, the doc giving you 500mg and 600mg every 3 weeks is nuts. That's just another trial and error doc figuring this stuff out at your expense. Your E2 is going to rise, you need someone who can treat your situation responsibly. What I suggest ... Call a few of the clinics like the one you posted here (or have them call you) and have them review their therapy program(s) in detail.

[tazmaniac1]

good point on the paste so i abbreviated it.

My objective 2 things
1. Get myself healthy with myself and my family I have changed and it is all pointed to TRT
2. I keep talking about the gym, so in my mind if I am going to be taking test to get me healthy why not get 2 bangs for my buck...

I am just struggling myself to figure out what to do I live in a area that is old school hard to find good help

[Regular guy]

Interesting post, I was mixed about HRT, I went through anti aging clinic. I'm much younger than you but after an injury had much of the same symptoms. I had blood work done, they reviewed it. Discussed my options. I got a script, meds, and needle/syringes form them in the mail. 210mg test cyp and 200mg nandrolone dec, self injected weekly. I just started my 4th week. Life is great more energy, great labido, and my relationship with my wife has improved. I honestly don't see why this therapy is not more widely accepted. I was considering slepp aides, antidepressants, and my caffeniene intake was through the roof.

Life is great again.

[zaggahamma]

Interesting post, I was mixed about HRT, I went through anti aging clinic. I'm much younger than you but after an injury had much of the same symptoms. I had blood work done, they reviewed it. Discussed my options. I got a script, meds, and needle/syringes form them in the mail. 210mg test cyp and 200mg nandrolone dec, self injected weekly. I just started my 4th week. Life is great more energy, great labido, and my relationship with my wife has improved. I honestly don't see why this therapy is not more widely accepted. I was considering slepp aides, antidepressants, and my caffeniene intake was through the roof.

Life is great again.

because it health/feeling good doesnt pay...if they fix you who's gonna pay their mortgage on their million dollar homes and 100,000 dollar cars/boats

[tazmaniac1]

What bothers me is that this is day 3 of the 500mg injection feeling good better labido but if it is anything like the first injection , about day 6 everything starts to go back to normal and then i get real anxious because I have to wait 2 more weeks. My next appointment is may 6th for consult and 600mg(yippee) what I should do is make an appointment for this Friday tell him that his theory is not in my best interest and see if he will write me a script. The chance i am taking is pissing him off then I am SOL.

thanks for everyone's help

[durak]

What bothers me is that this is day 3 of the 500mg injection feeling good better labido but if it is anything like the first injection , about day 6 everything starts to go back to normal and then i get real anxious because I have to wait 2 more weeks. My next appointment is may 6th for consult and 600mg(yippee) what I should do is make an appointment for this Friday tell him that his theory is not in my best interest and see if he will write me a script. The chance i am taking is pissing him off then I am SOL.

thanks for everyone's help

Hence the graph of cyp's blood levels over time...

[Epic Ed]

Your doctor is writing the perfect script for failure. A high dose of test cyp at an infrequent interval (anything longer than one week) will give you a roller coaster ride of hormone levels. Unfortunately, most docs who are administering TRT have no idea what the **** they are doing because they are relying on outdated studies as the basis of their protocols. Research done in the early 90's was performed with once a month injections and any doc relying solely on that data as their basis for a treatment protocol (and that's most docs) is ignoring the large and growing body of feedback from hundreds of TRT users that once a month -- or even twice a month -- injections are not sufficient to maintain even testosterone blood levels. Reference the chart posted above by Durak. Testosterone cypionate (or ethanate) has a half life of about 14 days. That means no matter how much test cyp you inject on day one, by the time you hit 21 days your test blood levels have bottomed out again.

TELL your doctor (don't ASK) that you want a SMALLER dose more frequently. Once a week at minimum. If the script is for 400mg each month, that's fine. Just break it up into four weekly injections of 100mg. Same dose, but a much better protocol. If your doc balks at that idea find another doc.

[tubs]

^^^^^^^^^^^
100% right on

[tazmaniac1]

I am on the right track, thanks everyone.I owe you guys alot! I am going to post a seperate question but if anyone has input on the test levels hopefully going in the right direction how will this effect the exercise?

thanks

[Vettester]

I am on the right track, thanks everyone.I owe you guys alot! I am going to post a seperate question but if anyone has input on the test levels hopefully going in the right direction how will this effect the exercise?

thanks

As you've probably guessed, it can make a positive impact on your exercise routine and your physique. However, I can't stress the diet thing enough. There's a GREAT section in this forum for this subject. Get the right foods and protein dialed in for your routine and you'll maximize your potential. Eat marginally, or unstructured with the wrong foods, you might be disappointed.

[tazmaniac1]

As you've probably guessed, it can make a positive impact on your exercise routine and your physique. However, I can't stress the diet thing enough. There's a GREAT section in this forum for this subject. Get the right foods and protein dialed in for your routine and you'll maximize your potential. Eat marginally, or unstructured with the wrong foods, you might be disappointed.

I have read that section and I will have to admit my diet is the best it has ever been the hard part is consuming enough protein every day, but thanks for the advice!