New protocol

[Epic Ed]

Finally! Found a aging/wellness clinic that would write a script for deca. It arrived yesterday and I pinned this morning. I'm bumping up my test while running the deca.

240mg deca EW for 12 weeks
320mg test cyp EW (160mg 2x)

I was going to run deca at 150mg and test at 300mg, but then I started doing the math on the concentrations in the bottle and where it lined up on the syringe. The deca is dosed at 300mg/ML -- if I ran it at 150mg I'd have a 20 week cycle and that's longer than I want to go. 240mg EW gives me a 12 week cycle (with just a little bit left over). I wanted to run the test cyp dose at twice my deca dose, but I'm going to just bump it to 320mg and see how it goes. If my dick is broken after a few weeks I'll bump the test up to 400mg.

I'm going to run LiquiDex at .5mg EOD when it arrives next week. I'd love to get some caber, but it's not in the budget right away. No plans for PCT after the deca cycle, but I have access to HCG, nolva, and clomid if necessary. I'll be tapering off the test from 400mg EW to 200mg EW as my regular TRT dose after the deca.

For anyone reading this post who is not familiar with my goals, I started TRT in February to deal with low testosterone issues. I'm running the deca to see if it will give me any relief from some pretty bad osteoarthritis in my knees. My goals aren't body building related, but I'm starting to really dig the results I'm getting from just running the test. If I make some gains from the deca in addition to relief from the pain, I'm not going to complain.

My stats:

42 y/o
5'10"
232lbs. - diet changed radically three weeks ago and I'm already down 8 lbs. This is a long term commitment for me.
BF = ? Dunno...but if I had to guess I'd say around 25%. I'll be doing a comprehensive analysis next month. My goal is 15% or less.

I'll post up with progress reports each week.

[durak]

Finally! Found a aging/wellness clinic that would write a script for deca. It arrived yesterday and I pinned this morning. I'm bumping up my test while running the deca.

240mg deca EW for 12 weeks
320mg test cyp EW (160mg 2x)

I was going to run deca at 150mg and test at 300mg, but then I started doing the math on the concentrations in the bottle and where it lined up on the syringe. The deca is dosed at 300mg/ML -- if I ran it at 150mg I'd have a 20 week cycle and that's longer than I want to go. 240mg EW gives me a 12 week cycle (with just a little bit left over). I wanted to run the test cyp dose at twice my deca dose, but I'm going to just bump it to 320mg and see how it goes. If my dick is broken after a few weeks I'll bump the test up to 400mg.

I'm going to run LiquiDex at .5mg EOD when it arrives next week. I'd love to get some caber, but it's not in the budget right away. No plans for PCT after the deca cycle, but I have access to HCG, nolva, and clomid if necessary. I'll be tapering off the test from 400mg EW to 200mg EW as my regular TRT dose after the deca.

For anyone reading this post who is not familiar with my goals, I started TRT in February to deal with low testosterone issues. I'm running the deca to see if it will give me any relief from some pretty bad osteoarthritis in my knees. My goals aren't body building related, but I'm starting to really dig the results I'm getting from just running the test. If I make some gains from the deca in addition to relief from the pain, I'm not going to complain.

My stats:

42 y/o
5'10"
232lbs. - diet changed radically three weeks ago and I'm already down 8 lbs. This is a long term commitment for me.
BF = ? Dunno...but if I had to guess I'd say around 25%. I'll be doing a comprehensive analysis next month. My goal is 15% or less.

I'll post up with progress reports each week.

Great! it would be great if you could log your journey. Very informative.

[Tenebrous]

Ed --

Best of luck with this. Wish I knew a place down here that would prescribe Deca so that I can cycle a few months down the line. My place is in-person only and is pretty conservative.

Your BF has got to be pretty high at that weight, unless you are a savage beast of muscles already. Sounds like you've got your diet under control though, down 8 lbs in 3 weeks is pretty badass. Best of luck with this. I'm on board with Durak: keep a log here for us! Also, any chance of posting body pics?

Let us know how the deca works for joint pain. I'm going to ask my guy about deca, but in my case for later cycling.

According to what I've been told, you won't need PCT at the conclusion of the cycle since you're on maintenance HRT, although you might need some E2 management when your test drops, and you've got the tools on hand.

One thing I'll mention is that you might consider running HCG to keep your natural systems running. I've been doing it since I started. The pins are really easy, and you don't have to worry so much about shrinking organs or fertility. I run 500 IU of HCG twice a week, doctor's orders, and so far I've still got big juicy grapes.

[Epic Ed]

I mentioned this in the other thread, but wanted to post it here:

I did my first pin with the Deca on Sat. morning and did the full 240mg with 160mg of test. Uhhhh...what happened to my DICK?! On Sunday I couldn't get hard with a room full of porn stars and a bucket of Crisco. So, I'm going to divide my deca dose a pin it twice a week just like I'm doing with the test. Hope it helps or I'm going to be crying while doing the 5-knuckle shuffle. There's nothing sadder than a guy crying and masturbating at the same time.

So, yeah. I'd love for someone to explain the interaction of deca with test administered as part of TRT. I know deca will shut down your natty production of test, but I figured if I'm pumping test cyp in my body twice each week at nearly twice the deca dose I'd be fine. At this point I'm figuring the problem is I only took half my test dose and took my full deca dose at the same time. I think I need to split both up to do it twice a week.

Any thoughts on the matter are welcomed.

[talstar]

I have elbow pain that deca took care of at 200mg a week. I plan to stay on deca for as long as I can get it(no script). Don't won't the pain to start back.

[Black]

Deca doses around 200mg a week will really help with joint pain (but it won't do much else).

It could be the fact that when you took the full dose of deca with 1/2 the dose of Test, something happened (seeing as 160mg of test is less than the 200mg you usually take). However, I've always been under the assumption as long as there is some test in there, you'll be ok. Equal parts test and deca are not necessary.

Might want to look into progesterone related issues if things don't get better.

[zaggahamma]

Deca doses around 200mg a week will really help with joint pain (but it won't do much else).

It could be the fact that when you took the full dose of deca with 1/2 the dose of Test, something happened (seeing as 160mg of test is less than the 200mg you usually take). However, I've always been under the assumption as long as there is some test in there, you'll be ok. Equal parts test and deca are not necessary.

Might want to look into progesterone related issues if things don't get better.

did for me....i added about 40lbs to my bench press on a short deca cycle of that dose maybe 50 mgs lower....INDIVIDUAL results/sides often vary

[Epic Ed]

Update:

End of the 2nd week of deca and most of the time my knees feel no different. I spent a lot of time on my feet the last three days and had typical symptoms. Nothing regarding the osteoarthritis is noticeably better at this point with the deca.

My dosing of 120mg deca/160mg test cyp 2x each week is working OK, but I'm still having some intermittent E.D. issues. I might need to bump the test a bit higher but I'm going to wait another week to see how it goes.

Weight is down to 227lbs as of Wednesday, but I've been on the road the last three days and eating like shit. No time or opportunity to meal plan and most of the "on the run" options have sucked. I'm back home so I'll be getting right back into the groove of healthy eating. Also had no opportunity to get to a gym the last three days. Psychologically, that really sucked. Physically, the rest might have done me some good because I've been tearing it up at the gym the last two months.

I also added B12 to the mix today and will be doing 1000mg once a week. Ordered LiquiDex from AR-R. Haven't taken it yet. Nipples feel the same as always, I can never tell if I'm bloated because, well...I'm fat, and the only other symptom of high E2 I've had has been a bit emotional at times, but nothing extreme. I might hold off on taking it but it's good to have on hand.

[talstar]

I have been on deca(200mg EW) for over 2 months now. It cured my elbow pain and increased my strength also. Ed, it may take a 4 to 6 weeks to help with your knees.

[Epic Ed]

Update:

- End of 3rd week of deca -- no noticeable change for the knee pain. There may be some slight improvement in how severe the pain gets, but I'll see how things go this next week before drawing any conclusions.

- Dropped a few more pounds and am down to 223.

- Strength gains continue in all major movements. Benched heavier this week than I've ever benched -- 265 lbs for 2 rep. 3 sets of 6 at 225lbs. Back to squatting 285lbs and deadlift 285lbs. Those aren't personal bests for me, but better than I've done in many years.

I'm happy with the strength gain progress so far and I'd imagine I'm going to get a bump in that area after the next two weeks when the deca starts to kick in.

[dosXX]

subscribed. Hey Epic Ed congrats on some of your progress I find your log interesting and will be following it. Now, is it okay if I ask for your bw result? Your initial and follow up as well if you have them thanks in advance. As for caber I also find this to be expensive but necessary for any prolactin issues so it's good to have on hands just in case. Another compound you can get is bromocriptine which is less cheaper than caber but you probably know this already. Good luck bro.

[Vettester]

subscribed. Hey Epic Ed congrats on some of your progress I find your log interesting and will be following it. Now, is it okay if I ask for your bw result? Your initial and follow up as well if you have them thanks in advance. As for caber I also find this to be expensive but necessary for any progesterone issues so it's good to have on hands just in case. Another compound you can get is bromocriptine which is less cheaper than caber but you probably know this already. Good luck bro.

Caber for progesterone?

[Epic Ed]

subscribed. Hey Epic Ed congrats on some of your progress I find your log interesting and will be following it. Now, is it okay if I ask for your bw result? Your initial and follow up as well if you have them thanks in advance. As for caber I also find this to be expensive but necessary for any progesterone issues so it's good to have on hands just in case. Another compound you can get is bromocriptine which is less cheaper than caber but you probably know this already. Good luck bro.

My initial BW had me at 362 total test and I can't remember what my free test was but it was in the lower end of the reference range. My doc put me on TRT despite numbers within the reference range due to my symptoms. He's a good man, and I'm finding he's one of the few who is willing to treat the patient rather than just the numbers. I went with an aging & wellness clinic to get deca and will likely be doing my follow up with them instead of my GP just to keep things legal (don't want to have any issues with "doctor shopping"). My next blood work is scheduled for the end of May.

RE: caber -- my deca dose is so low that I'm probably not going to need a progesterone blocker. Oh! Almost forgot about the liquidex. Been taking .25mg ED for a week. My moods have been more stable and I've been ready to put my crank in my wife at a moments notice. She's getting a bit annoyed at this point. I may need to find a girlfriend.

[dosXX]

Caber for progesterone?

Or prolactin

[Epic Ed]

I missed updating last week, but here's a quick summary for this week.

Deca -- I think it is helping with the knee pain. It's not a miraculous difference, but I do notice I can do heavier weights without any additional complications from pain afterward. I would say the aching I usually experience from short distances walking or brief standing has also become less severe, though far from gone.

Strength -- continuing to make gains, though at a slower rate. Deadlift was 315lbs for a set of 6 as my last heavy set. Squat was 285 lbs. and bench is up to 265lbs.

Weight -- down to 220lbs as of this morning. Still don't know where body fat % is, but it's definitely dropping and I'm fitting into clothes I haven't worn in over a year.

This is the end of week 5 for me on the Deca. After looking back through this thread it looks like I failed to mention I bumped my test cyp dose up to 400mg EW a few weeks ago when I was still having intermittent E.D. issues. Yeah...that's no longer a problem. I'm enjoying 400mg EW.

[talstar]

What are signs that you need caber? I am taking a estrogen blocker three times a week. Deca dose is 200mg a week.

[dosXX]

What are signs that you need caber? I am taking a estrogen blocker three times a week. Deca dose is 200mg a week.

Lactating nipple

[Epic Ed]

End of week 6 update.

Kind of a rough week. I did drop another 2 lbs and I'm down to 217. Kind of surprised because my appetite was increased and I'm sure I consumed more calories this week then I have been. I tried to keep them clean and did a decent job even though I had to eat out a couple of times.

The rough part was at the gym. I inflamed something in my left hip pushing heavy on leg press last Sunday. Right at my upper, outter part of the hip bone when the IT band begins feels like it's on fire. I had 5 days between quad workouts and tried again yesterday -- couldn't do shit for squatting. The hip hurts too much and quickly got aggravated again. I'm probably going to have to see a doc about this one. And speaking of injuries -- I also have bad tendonitis in my left elbow making arm workouts a bitch AND that makes it impossible for me to do pull ups on back days without flaring it up. So yesterdays workout of quads and back was a complete waste. I may have to dial it back a bit. I've been lifting hard and heavy since early March and may just not be giving my body enough time to heal between workouts.

I also developed a rash about a week ago on both shoulders. Looks like small pimples. It didn't go away so I went to the doc yesterday and found out I have a staph infection. Must have picked it up from the gym. 10 days of antibiotics should clear things up. We'll see.

On a positive note I was able to bump my deadlift up to 335lbs this week. The deca hasn't provided any additional relief this week that I've noticed.

[tubs]

good read ed

[Epic Ed]

End of week 7 update:

Still at 217 lbs, but I'm sure I dropped body fat this week. I think the combo deca/test is making it more and more difficult to actually lose lbs on the scale as my muscle mass increase is probably happening at a greater rate than fat I'm losing.

The deca is definitely helping the knees. I've been off of Relafen (anti-inflammatory meds for osteoarthritis) for two weeks and the daily aches and pains in my knees are greatly diminished even without the meds.

I'm still dealing with the hip issue so I haven't been able to go heavy on squats. Bench is still at 265 lbs, but my dead lift improved to 355 lbs for 4 reps -- no wrist straps, no belt.

[zaggahamma]

End of week 7 update:

Still at 217 lbs, but I'm sure I dropped body fat this week. I think the combo deca/test is making it more and more difficult to actually lose lbs on the scale as my muscle mass increase is probably happening at a greater rate than fat I'm losing.

The deca is definitely helping the knees. I've been off of Relafen (anti-inflammatory meds for osteoarthritis) for two weeks and the day aches and pains in my knees are greatly diminished even without the meds.

I'm still dealing with the hip issue so I haven't been able to go heavy on squats. Bench is still at 265 lbs, but my dead lift improved to 355 lbs for 4 reps -- no wrist straps, no belt.

good work bro...thats where i saw my biggest gains was in back lifts as well...love deads so much but have herniated disc/etc. blah blah blah and shouldnt ever do them

[Epic Ed]

Well, I missed a week for update, so this is end of week 9.

Weight down to 214 lbs as of this morning. More on that in a minute. Started doing PT for the hip and elbow. Hip issue is mild bursitis and the elbow is golfers elbow. I've had to back off the weight on exercises that affect both of those injuries.

I'm coming up on 3 months of being on this new diet -- started eating right March 22nd and my goal has been to lose 30 lbs by June 22nd. As of last week I was still 6 lbs away from that goal. So, last week I decided I was going to change up my gym routine a bit. Weight training this week was going to focus on higher reps and lighter weight (figured this would help with the injuries, anyways) and I planned to do cardio for one hour after work.

This week my diet was pristine, I lifted according to plan, and I hit the gym every night after work for an hour of cardio. As of yesterday I had gained two pounds Seriously? I GAINED two pounds? Well, as of this morning I had dropped another three so I'm sitting at 214 lbs with another 5 lbs to go in the next two days. I doubt there's a healthy way I'm going to make it so it looks like I'll come up a bit short on the goal, but I'm still making good progress in the right direction.

I believe the benefits of the deca have reached their peak. I've noticed no improvement these past two weeks over what I had already attained since starting the deca. Overall, I think it's worthwhile for me to run on a regular basis at a low dose. I'm going to take a couple of months off the deca and return to my regular TRT protocol (200mg EW of test) in order to see how long the benefits of the deca remain. I'm planning to return to using deca at an even lower dose next cycle -- possibly 100mg.

I'm also going to start posting some pictures. I wish I had taken some when I started, but I don't have any good shots from early March. I still ain't purty, but I'm making progress. Photos to come later...

[Jupiter2]

Heya Ed, no need to be discouraged. Take a look at the entire picture. You've mentioned that you've been working out pretty intensely. Chances are you've been replacing fat weight with muscle weight which is a good thing. You must also consider the fact that you might be holding some water weight as a result of the therapy. Goals are a great thing but being only 5 or 6 pounds shy of your goal is still a remarkable achievement when put into the proper perspective.

[rmacgurn]

Well, I missed a week for update, so this is end of week 9.

Weight down to 214 lbs as of this morning. More on that in a minute. Started doing PT for the hip and elbow. Hip issue is mild bursitis and the elbow is golfers elbow. I've had to back off the weight on exercises that affect both of those injuries.

I'm coming up on 3 months of being on this new diet -- started eating right March 22nd and my goal has been to lose 30 lbs by June 22nd. As of last week I was still 6 lbs away from that goal. So, last week I decided I was going to change up my gym routine a bit. Weight training this week was going to focus on higher reps and lighter weight (figured this would help with the injuries, anyways) and I planned to do cardio for one hour after work.

This week my diet was pristine, I lifted according to plan, and I hit the gym every night after work for an hour of cardio. As of yesterday I had gained two pounds Seriously? I GAINED two pounds? Well, as of this morning I had dropped another three so I'm sitting at 214 lbs with another 5 lbs to go in the next two days. I doubt there's a healthy way I'm going to make it so it looks like I'll come up a bit short on the goal, but I'm still making good progress in the right direction.

I believe the benefits of the deca have reached their peak. I've noticed no improvement these past two weeks over what I had already attained since starting the deca. Overall, I think it's worthwhile for me to run on a regular basis at a low dose. I'm going to take a couple of months off the deca and return to my regular TRT protocol (200mg EW of test) in order to see how long the benefits of the deca remain. I'm planning to return to using deca at an even lower dose next cycle -- possibly 100mg.

I'm also going to start posting some pictures. I wish I had taken some when I started, but I don't have any good shots from early March. I still ain't purty, but I'm making progress. Photos to come later...

HI Ed I see you post a lot of boards so not sure if this will work for you or not. I to used to live years ago in Phx btw. I have been in the gym 4-5 days a week for years, always taking some time off when the joints started to ache or have issue with the elbows or knees. Finally i faced the fact that at 56 now 57 i was not going to return to 315lb benches or heavy squats, deads etc. Instead i decided that staying fit and with a more gymnastic type body, flexible was better for me at this age. So i started doing 3x a week 4o min cardio, yoga, and when i lift now i use volume work methods. For example last week was M- chest 155lbs 4 reps, then 10 sec rest, repeat for 15 min. this keeps my heart rate 140's and boy do you sweat. you may not put on to much muscle but it burns the fat off. if you tired and cannot finish the 4th rep increase rest to 20 sec. etc. i followed that with bi's done the same with a curl, and 10 sec rest, but as it is a small muscle i only did 7.5 min. same procedure with the rest extension if you cannot make it through all 4 reps. if you go all through for 15 or 7,5 min on 10 sec rest the weight was too light to start. so adjust. Tuesday I did leg press (15 min) and hamstring curl 15 min, same rest but i take a 5 min break between then as they are both large muscles. Wednesday i take a break and do cardio and yoga, then thru i did Back for 15 min 10 sec rest, using a Cybex row machine, followed by Tri's for 7.5 min using dumbbells. then Friday was shoulder and calfs, both for 7.5 min each but select a good weight to fatigue out half way through so you need to go to 20 sec rest. I used 85 for machine should presses, and 4 plates on seated calf raise. you can mix the exercises up (squat, extension press for legs as example) and even do them on the road using body weight, like chair dips, or push-ups, body weight sissy squats etc.

I am only on TRT test cream now, and 2.5 ius a day HGH but doing this has still lead to 1 lb a week gains in weight and drops in body fat from 9.3 to now 8.2%. It is not my routine but a friend sent it via email from the states. After a few weeks of this I will go back to doing 21's (triple drops) but well below max weight so no more injuries.

Just a thought if cutting the fat is major goal, but if pushing up lots of iron is the goal well then just ignore...

[Epic Ed]

Good input. While I'm definitely trying to lose fat, I've consciously been lifting heavy weights and doing low reps to take maximum advantage of the higher test dose I'm running in conjunction with the deca. Might as well get as much muscle mass out of it as I can. I'll be switching over to a Crossfit workout after the deca cycle is done and my test dose is back at the normal TRT level of 200mg EW. I think I should see pretty rapid progress when I make the change over.

[zaggahamma]

Good input. While I'm definitely trying to lose fat, I've consciously been lifting heavy weights and doing low reps to take maximum advantage of the higher test dose I'm running in conjunction with the deca. Might as well get as much muscle mass out of it as I can. I'll be switching over to a Crossfit workout after the deca cycle is done and my test dose is back at the normal TRT level of 200mg EW. I think I should see pretty rapid progress when I make the change over.

thats a good mindset as the added muscle when generate more fat burning metabolism...some people dont even need cardio becuase of such

[Epic Ed]

It has certainly worked to a degree for me. I wish I had hard numbers to refer to for my progress, but I started at 239lbs on 3/22. I've dropped 25lbs in scale weight but I have no idea how much muscle I've added and actual fat I've lost. Judging by appearance and strength gains it wouldn't surprise me if I've gained 10 ls of muscle mass during that time. I know it's not easy to gain muscle mass while also losing fat but I think I've been hitting a good balance of caloric intake that has allowed me to drop weight but has been sufficient enough to grow muscle.

[zaggahamma]

It has certainly worked to a degree for me. I wish I had hard numbers to refer to for my progress, but I started at 239lbs on 3/22. I've dropped 25lbs in scale weight but I have no idea how much muscle I've added and actual fat I've lost. Judging by appearance and strength gains it wouldn't surprise me if I've gained 10 ls of muscle mass during that time. I know it's not easy to gain muscle mass while also losing fat but I think I've been hitting a good balance of caloric intake that has allowed me to drop weight but has been sufficient enough to grow muscle.

i wouldnt doubt it at all ed...i went from 250lbs to 212 and gained huge in strength gains on similar protocol....i really like deca with test in moderate doses