CRG TRT Log

[crg]

Thought I'd start this thread for newbies like myself and allow the old dudes to chime in and give me some advice as needed.

Background: 50 y/o, 5'7", 170lbs, low BF (I dont know what it is, 31" waist, so I dont really care) initial T was 151, diet is very good.

I try and run 5/wk and lift when I can. Generally in pretty good shape, been lifting all my life. Just had a cortisone shot in the elow yesterday, have laid off lifting since Oct 09 due to elbow pain.

I just started my Test Cyp 100mg x 2 weekly (200/wk) program last week, stuck myself twice. I'll try and keep it at 100mg every 3 days and see what happens, next lab work is on 11 May, see the Doc on the 19th.

I've run a number of cycles in my 20's-30's and tend to put on size and strenght pretty quick, we'll see what 200/wk does?

So far, I feel a bit better. I'm sleeping like a bag of dirt, I'm out for a hard 5-6 hours and then up like a kid (too early like 0300).

Anywho's, I'll try and keep reporting results/lab work every so often.

[durak]

any anti-e?

[crg]

negative..we get some track record with the lab work first, I dont anticipate any problems with my Doc if I need anything

[Vettester]

Good info, thanks for posting it up. Any thoughts about HCG for testicular health?

You've probably got some good muscle memory from the past, so I anticipate that you'll see some good gains.

Will look forward to your upcoming BW. I'm curious to see where this protocol takes your panel scores.

[crg]

concerning anti-e: Im going to try a recommendation out of the book Testosterone Syndrome by Eugene Shippen. He states Zinc inhibits levels of aromatase, so if you have high E try 50mg twice a day then bump it down to 50mg once a day. So thats what im trying, I'll see in next months lab work.

as far as self injections- delts are the way to go for me. also, I think the ticket for me is to inject in the delt right before I workout, forcing blood into the site to reduce any inj pain


I had a cortisone shot in the elbow last week, triceps tendon problem, pain and lots of nice crunchy noise. the shot hurt for a couple of days, then I decided to workout chest and shoulders to push it (I stopped working out hard last Oct, starting working out again once a week last month) HUGE difference, no crunch, no pain feels great, suprised by my strengh (not really since I have prior experience with Test

Can notice a slight change in my attitude, for the good and bad. Patience is tested quicker than normal, have to remind myself to chill out a little more.

no change in man parts, no morning wood, I sleep like a MF though. Although ED isnt an issue, I do notice I'm not as hard as woodpecker lips anymore, no sh*t ...I'm 50 right? Just need to keep an eye out for shrinkage due to the T, thats where Im hoping the Zinc will help.

All for now, headed out of town for the week.

[crg]

as far have any questions with "sperm count". I was neutered 21 years ago, after daughter #2, so I been shooting blanks a long time.

[crg]

Been on 200/wk cyp since 15 April, I inj every 3-4 days. Huge difference in my stamina to do just about anything e.g. yesterday I worked out, ran, cut down some small tress then pulled a stump from a 30' pine. I was tired as sh*t but I could keep on keepin on, havent felt this good in 10+ years. My ability to recoved from working out has improved greatly also. Granted I dont look a hell of a lot different than I did last month but I damn sure will in 6 months if I continue to feel this good. The down side is after a few drinks I can get pissed off rather quickly, just have to keep an eye on that.
I'm also taking 50mg zinc/3 times a day and 1000 fish oil x 2 a day. I'll get some lab work done around the 12/13th and have have another doc appt on the 19th. I'm very interested to see my levels after my first month on 200/wk.
Bottomline- I havent felt this good in years!

[Epic Ed]

Nice! Good to hear. Cut out the drinking for a while and you'll increase the rate you see improvements.

[durak]

Been on 200/wk cyp since 15 April, I inj every 3-4 days. Huge difference in my stamina to do just about anything e.g. yesterday I worked out, ran, cut down some small tress then pulled a stump from a 30' pine. I was tired as sh*t but I could keep on keepin on, havent felt this good in 10+ years. My ability to recoved from working out has improved greatly also. Granted I dont look a hell of a lot different than I did last month but I damn sure will in 6 months if I continue to feel this good. The down side is after a few drinks I can get pissed off rather quickly, just have to keep an eye on that.
I'm also taking 50mg zinc/3 times a day and 1000 fish oil x 2 a day. I'll get some lab work done around the 12/13th and have have another doc appt on the 19th. I'm very interested to see my levels after my first month on 200/wk.
Bottomline- I havent felt this good in years!

It is shocking how far our bodies can degrade if we let them. I don't feel as "good" anymore, however I think it is a function of good turning into normal not reverting away from good.

[crg]

I think I may have overextended myself last weekend; I’ve been tired as hell since Monday. I’ve been feeling really good since I started TRT last month but I may have let my overall feeling of wellness override what I can physically comfortably do this early in the game. Meaning since I’ve felt so good, strong, confident, etc. for the past few weeks I assumed I could perform at that level without much problem and have the ability to recoup ASAP.

Yeah well that sh*t aint happening, this past weekend has taught me a lesson about TRT, or managing the first months expectations. I’m just an older guy who “feels younger”, I aint getting no younger.

[crg]

Latest lab work:
Free- 268
Total- 1218
Estrogen- 51
HDL- 73
LDL- 113

have an appt tomorrow am...feel great, 200mg/wk Test Cy seems like the ticket for me, brought me to 1218 from 151..

[Vettester]

Hope your doctor isn't the type to flip out with that score.

Your E2 is creeping up there just a bit. I don't agree with your original theory on Zinc. I'd look at getting some Adex and try 0.5mg x 2/week. Then see where your levels are at in a few months and adjust accordingly.

Let us know how the appointment goes.

[crg]

Using zinc was an input from the book, Testosterone Syndrome by Eugene Shippen. I was hoping it would reduce the E like he professes it would..wishful thinking

I'll bring up the adex tomorrow and see what he says. If he has a problem with the 1218 I'll tell him I'll cut back to 200mg/10 days vice the 7 days I'm currently doing, I want to stay at the uppermost limits though, I feel great at 1218, better than I have in years.

Also, these are my first months results..we'll tweak them to where they need to be in time.

thanks for the input

[Vettester]

Using zinc was an input from the book, Testosterone Syndrome by Eugene Shippen. I was hoping it would reduce the E like he professes it would..wishful thinking

I'll bring up the adex tomorrow and see what he says. If he has a problem with the 1218 I'll tell him I'll cut back to 200mg/10 days vice the 7 days I'm currently doing, I want to stay at the uppermost limits though, I feel great at 1218, better than I have in years.

Also, these are my first months results..we'll tweak them to where they need to be in time.

thanks for the input

If a sacrifice had to be made, opt to lower the dose to something like 150mg, but keep it at every week. Push it beyond a week and you'll start to notice a drop ... That you don't want! A lot of places use the range of 280-800, so it will be interesting to see how the doc responds.

Yeah, the zinc might be good just for normal situations, but when you're introducing a medication that actually converts into estrogen, it's necessary to combat it and keep it in check. If it were me, I'd take a little (as suggested above) and aim to get it around the 30 range on the next round of BW. Don't want it going too low, but this is part of that "tweak" stage in round 1 of HRT.

[crg]

New BW from Quest:

Estradiol- 51
T Free- 268
Bioavailable- 551.2
Total- 1218
SHBG- 24
Albumin- 4.5
Cholestrol- 200
Triglycerdies- 71
HDL- 73
LDL- 113
Cholestrol / HDL ratio 2.7


So I know E2 is high as is total/free, I'll reduce my weekly intake from 200mg to 150mg and see what next months BW tells us. I dont want to add Adex unless I abolutely have to, hopefully reducing the weekly test will lower the E2and that will correct itself. BP is 128/80 so not issues there.

Overall I feel great and have been having very good workouts and runs, have gained a few pounds and am seeing a little more def in upper body. Need to start doing squats and deadlifts again. Morning woods have returned and at times I'm horiner than a 3 peckered goat....

[xpunksurferx]

How many days out from your last shot was your test?

[crg]

xpunksurferx

BW done 4 days after a 100mg shot. You think I had a big bump from that?

I inj 100mg x2/week e.g. inj wait 3 days, inj wait 4 days, repeat...

[xpunksurferx]

I don't know? I am trying to get my doc to ok that dose as we speak. I did 50mg bi weekly then when I switched to once a week, I noticed a pronounced effect that lasted to the third day after the shot, I am guessing it was due to consuming 200mg the prior week, problem is, I crashed hard.

[crg]

noticing my balls are shrinking some, and when I have sex I seem to last forever..the wife is taking a pounding (she's a trooper though!)

I guess I need to schedule an appt with the doc and ask for some hcg and an AI? Whats the starting dose I should request? My E is high according to my last BW, it's 51.

thanks!

[Vettester]

My suggestion:

Cut your Test Cyp down to 120mg/wk

Add HCG - 250iu x 3/wk

Anastrozole/Adex 0.5mg x 3/wk

Run BW 6-8 weeks after introducing new protocol, then see where things need tweaked.

25-to-35 would be a good target for the E2

[crg]

my doc referred me to an urologist this am for the shrinkage issue. any experience with dealing with this group of dr's?

the last thing i want is more frickin dr's (opinions) involved in my treatment...unless they are receptive/understanding of TRT

[crg]

anyone have experience with the anti-E sold thru AR-R ?

Judging from my last doc appt I think a script is very iffy, most likley he'll want to decrease the test, which I have already decreased myself. Although he was quick to let me self inject i dont think he's comfortable with any other TRT protocal's.

[Vettester]

anyone have experience with the anti-E sold thru AR-R ?

Judging from my last doc appt I think a script is very iffy, most likley he'll want to decrease the test, which I have already decreased myself. Although he was quick to let me self inject i dont think he's comfortable with any other TRT protocal's.

I've use their Liquidex, which works just fine. I think you'll like it!

[crg]

thanks,

OK dumb question: it is a liquid but is it an oral or injectable? if inj, is it water/oil based?

[Vettester]

It's an oral. Doesn't taste too bad either.

[Vettester]

(At least that was my determination after giving it to my lab mice.)

[eregitano]

It's an oral. Doesn't taste too bad either.

is this typically run throughout the TRT or run every so often to boost levels.

[Vettester]

is this typically run throughout the TRT or run every so often to boost levels.

No "boosting" with this stuff. It's purpose and design is to reduce E2 and keep it in check. If your E2 is in the normal range, then there's no need to take it. However, that's why I believe (IMO) that when someone starts TRT, they should run BW 6 weeks after their first injection, then run quarterly BW labs thereafter. This is where you will know if you need to add/reduce the AI's.

[crg]

ordered the liqidex. also looking at b12, it seems there is very little if any difference between human and vet grade and vet grade b12 can be purchased on the cheap and by the bucket, 500ml.
i used vet grade aas a long time ago and worked with no sides, other than my c*ck now drags the ground, i'll do anything for an apple and i sleep standing up..i'm fine.

[eregitano]

No "boosting" with this stuff. It's purpose and design is to reduce E2 and keep it in check. If your E2 is in the normal range, then there's no need to take it. However, that's why I believe (IMO) that when someone starts TRT, they should run BW 6 weeks after their first injection, then run quarterly BW labs thereafter. This is where you will know if you need to add/reduce the AI's.

got it, so i start the first TRT stick on Monday (200 cyp) per week, so no AI till first BW lab is done in 6 weeks. Out of curiosity what's the range of E2 that one should be in to avoid and AI?

[Vettester]

got it, so i start the first TRT stick on Monday (200 cyp) per week, so no AI till first BW lab is done in 6 weeks. Out of curiosity what's the range of E2 that one should be in to avoid and AI?

If you don't mind, start a new thread on this subject so that we don't get caught up in a thread jack on CRG's log. I want to talk to you more about the scores and when to take the AI.

[Epic Ed]

CRG -- I bought the B12 from AR-R and run 1000mg EW. Also bought their LiquiDex. It's a sublinqual (put it under your tongue). They recommended dosing is .25mg ED. I started taking it when I bumped my test dose up from 200mg EW to 400mg EW. By the end of two weeks my dick didn't work and I felt a bit crappy. I stopped taking it this week because it seems I tanked my E2 levels. I'll resume taking it if I get symptoms of my E2 going too high. Everyone aromatizes test at a different rate and you may not need an AI at all with the dose of test you're taking. It's good to have an AI on hand, though. If I go back to using it I'm only going to take it every 3rd day.

[crg]

EE-- last BW (Quest) had my E at 51 their range caps out at 54 so I'm on the high side.

400/wk uh? yeah thats about what I used to do (plus anavar /dbol /winstrol /anadrol /deca /on and on) 20yrs ago and nobody ever heard of any PCT...Im pretty sure thats why I'm on this board today, probably be on some other board in 20 more years because of todays TRT fun

[crg]

got the liqdex, damn fast shipping..taken it twice now, .25 eod.

I'll be getting some more BW later this month..how long should I wait before I get my next BW after starting liqdex? whats the normal time one might see a drop in E levels, days, weeks, etc?

thanks

[ottomaddox]

You'll probably see your total test number sky rocket as well. I'm on TRT too, using 200mgs Test-C per week and I used .50mg a-dex twice the week before bloodwork and my total test went from mid 1000's to over 1500. Re-tested later with out the a-dex and my T levels were closer to normal. Doc was pissed......

[crg]

Just got back my BW drawn a week ago:
total- 1324
free- 345
E-31

the liqdex brought me down from 51, thanks vettman

I have a uro doc appt on the 19th for ball shrinkage, hopefully I'll get a script for hcg otherwise I'll have to track it down on my own and pay out of pocket

test numbers are a bit high I know, but I feel great and am not concerned other than my balls disappearing, BP/LDL/HDL are all good so I'll keep doing what I'm doing which is only 150 per week now, started at 200/wk.

weight has increased, BF has decreased, strenght has increased, zero joint pain, I look and feel pretty damn good for 50

[crg]

If you've seen another post of mine, test cyp backlogged wtf?, you'd know my local pharma (CVS) couldnt get me any and I had to get a new script for TE. Well, a new Walgreens just opened down the street and they have it (now I do, just picked it up) so I now have 2 scripts for test: one for E at CVS and one (transfered from CVS) for C at Wallgreens.
Sweet little gig I have going on...until my insurance jumps in, hopefully they won't catch it ;o

[crg]

saw the uro today in hopes of getting some hcg for shrinkage, big no go. since he's new to the mix (not my primary doc) he wants more BW; LH, prolactin, T (free/total), PSA and a TS (testicular sonogram).

I'll draw BW tomorrow am, last shot was 100 TE, 7 days ago. funny thing is he told me my boys were "normal", I bet I've lost 1/4 of my size.

The TS should be fun..hope its not too cold in there

[Vettester]

Wish these docs would start listening to their patients. If you've noticed at least a 1/4 reduction, then what's his problem? He says, "normal" ... That's normal to him, not you. Keep us posted.

[crg]

recent BW, thought I share the results

leading up to BW: 100 TE 7/10, 100 TE 7/15, .5 Liqdex 7/13, .5 liqdex 7/16

blood drawn 7/20

Prolactin: 2.6 (2.0-18.0)
LH: <0.2 (1.5 -9.3)
PSA: 0.6 (0.0 - 4.0)
T Total: 645 (250-1100)
Free: 1.89% (1.5 - 2.2)
Free: 121.9 (35-155)

results are w/i range except the LH, less than 0.2
T has really dropped, past BW has had me in the 1100-1200 ranges, I pulled back from 200/W to 100-150/W for a couple of weeks prior to BW