please help posted twice

[riddick1059]

Hello needing help guys this will be sort of long so please bare wth
me. I found this site and have been reading over it the past several
weeks found lots of good information.

I am a 41 year old male been lifting weights off and on scince I was
24. never was ripped just in good shape overall. bf. was always
maintained around 15%-18% not because of my diet just genetics up until
about two years ago I maintained a weight of about 215. from the age of about
30 until present I've had very little sex drive, have lways had some
high ldl and low hdl but can control ldl with meds. my doc told me
that hdl would increase with cardio never has. Two years ago after
some blood work my doc put me on synthroid told me I had hypothyroid
. thats when things started going off course.

My weight went from 215 to 230 in three months I addressed my
concerns with my doc at the time he told me to add more cardio
so was doing cardio 6 days a week, 3 months later was at 240 doc told
me to work out more and watch my cal. intake. too make a long
story short I was told over the past two years your thyroid is under control
, your just getting older, cut back on your cal, more cardio, I
kept asking the doctor could it be my thyroid and should I be on t-3
only he said no my blood work was fine. he caled me a liar when
i told him my diet he said no way i went so far as to ut my cal. back to 1300 a day...

I am doing this
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=323516

again to make a long story
short.
I went to another doctor 2 hrs away that deals with thyroid and
adrenal issues she told me I probably had adrenal fatuige and
ordered a but load of blood work they took 6 vials of blood
when the results came back she said my free test was 8.6 way too
high and told me to stop workingout, to go strait to my doc. well
of course he was ticked off retested my testosterone and said I was in
my range for my age at 2.4. well I've ordered some t3 t4 med from
thialand and still hasn't helped. my wife is totally unsuportive
she thinks it's all in my head she is totally behind my doctor
"your getting older" she will be the first to admit I eat right
better than most poeple and I'm always going to the gym.

lately she has been calling me a pill popper and swears I'm doing
steroids because I come to this site. she says "steroids will cause
your cholestorel to go up and cause a heart attack" she is a nurse.

Well I said all that to get to this

The past two years I've continued to gain weight up to 264
I still workout recently rechanged my diet to the one under "so you wana know
how to deit'

also the pills I take are as follows

vit C
vit A and D
Mukti vit
fish oil
one asprin a day
liver pills
creatine on workout days during my workout as my carb
welchol
whey protien

The past two months after reading posts on here I tried a over the counter A.I.
formastane and went from 264 down to 248.

Given I have zero suport from the wife or doc. here I am. I am thinking of going with
nolvadex as an estrogen blocker to see how that helps also might try about 250 mg/week of
testosterone.

I know this is the short hand version of the story but I tried to hit the main points. On
top of all that I'm loosing muscle, almost all the fat I've gained had been in the belly.
I don' drink, or smoke ect.

sorry for typo's typing fast on a tiny computer

[Epic Ed]

After reading through that I still don't know what your free and total testosterone levels were at the last blood work you had done. Never take "you're fine" as an answer when you ask you doctors what your scores are -- ask for a specific number and the reference range for that score. With most docs they'll tell you "your "x" levels were within normal ranges" even if you had a 250 and the "normal range" is 250-1000. The doctors that only treat a number and refuse to consider the individual patient are very hard to work with when it comes to hormone replacement therapy (HRT).

You also need to know your estrogen levels. Again, a specific scores and the reference range are required. Don't go taking any AI's or test until you know the specifics about your numbers.

[riddick1059]

i have 3 pages of results somewhere from the other doctor i went to. but when my docor retested me he said my results were 2.4 (testosterone). he told me that something as minor as a needle prick could make my testoserone spike to 8.6 like it was on the other results. at the time my concernas was my t function my t3 and t4 my t4 ws 3.5. i never had my estrogen checked. doubt if my doctor would even agree to check it. he says I have a strong heart with a rate of 48-54 resting and 35bpm sleeping, when he checks my temp it's around 97.3 but i check it throughout the month basal test with two thermometers and it averages around 96.5. With all the reading i'm doing sounds like high estrogen low testosterone. anyone know a good company it can get some labs done. Wife is not suportive. She is aginst everything. she thinks i'm going thru mid life crisis looking for a magic pill. I know my body and wth my diet and workout routine I should be healthier.

[rmacgurn]

i have 3 pages of results somewhere from the other doctor i went to. but when my doctor retested me he said my results were 2.4 (testosterone). he told me that something as minor as a needle prick could make my testosterone spike to 8.6 like it was on the other results. at the time my concerns was my t function my t3 and t4 my t4 ws 3.5. i never had my estrogen checked. doubt if my doctor would even agree to check it. he says I have a strong heart with a rate of 48-54 resting and 35bpm sleeping, when he checks my temp it's around 97.3 but i check it throughout the month basal test with two thermometers and it averages around 96.5. With all the reading i'm doing sounds like high estrogen low testosterone. anyone know a good company it can get some labs done. Wife is not supportive. She is against everything. she thinks i'm going thru mid life crisis looking for a magic pill. I know my body and with my diet and workout routine I should be healthier.

Interesting, I read this a few times and wonder what you are looking for...you said you want to be healthier do you mean weight less and have less fat? You mention thyroid several times, but never mention testing TSH, T3 or T4 (a simple thyroid panel). This will tell you many things, such as if your body thinks you need more hormone (high TSH) if you have normal TSH but high T4 and low T3 you are not converting correctly and hence that could be the issue. Be careful taking thyroid meds unmonitored, especially since you do not seem to know the difference between them.

What about your blood sugar have you tested that after a 12 hour fast, if you are having insulin/sugar issues you can store a lot of fat... seems you focus is on test and that is not the source of the problem as you have described here. the thyroid panel and blood sugar tests are easy and cheap...start there.

good luck and report back....

[Vettester]

Wow, it's tough enough going toe-to-toe with some of these anal doctors, but I can only imagine the solitude you're feeling with being thrown under the bus by the Mrs. I've been fortunate having a wife that has actually done quite a bit of research to learn this stuff too. Education kills ignorance, and I hope she will come to your corner before it's said and done.

Either way, grab this by the horns! Go to a AA clinic if these guys fail to help you with what you need. Andropause is for real, just as menopause changes the lives of women everyday. All you're trying to do is to balance yourself out to normal. Plenty of places that won't let their ignorance or egos get in the way of helping you get better.

[riddick1059]

Rmac yeah get my weight / fat back down I have to admit other than my belly i'm in good health. i hold the record at my doc office for the longest stress test he starts at a 4% incline and i went 14min and 20 sec. maxed out pulse never got over 170 bmp. I've had the tsh test done by my doc he says I'm in my range at 3.5 he said anything between 2.0 and 5 is good. I've also had my t-3 and t-4 test done been looking around the house for the results been a few months ago. The reason I posted this was two fold the first was after reading this and and using thyroids-s on my own. It seems that high estrogen can effect the pituitary gland and that also plays a role in the thyroid function. given my body mass increase mainly fat and some decrease in muscle. With a continuing good diet and working out. Also with my almost zero sex drive even though my testosterone is in the normal range I was thinking of giving a small dose of testosterone 250mg a week a try. To see if it helps. my blood sugar after a 12 hour fast in the am after waking was a little high nothing to be alarmed over. he even tested me after eating went back to normal within 2 hours.
oh yeah forgot to mention I do take t-4 synthroid
Not so worried about the test but would like to test the Novaldex about 10mg day to see how it may work as a blocker. See if that helps my Weight and sex drive.

vettman08
You would think the increase in sex drive idea my wife would be researching it for me lol. No she don't believe in drugs unless you are dieing. I listed what i take up top and she calls me a pill popper she says you need help. I said they are supplements but to her they are pills. the only one she don't give me a hard time over is the fish oil. even the doc told her they were good. She gripes when i take my asprin lol. Thanks for the advice.

[rmacgurn]

Rmac yeah get my weight / fat back down I have to admit other than my belly i'm in good health. i hold the record at my doc office for the longest stress test he starts at a 4% incline and i went 14min and 20 sec. maxed out pulse never got over 170 bmp. I've had the tsh test done by my doc he says I'm in my range at 3.5 he said anything between 2.0 and 5 is good. I've also had my t-3 and t-4 test done been looking around the house for the results been a few months ago. The reason I posted this was two fold the first was after reading this and and using thyroids-s on my own. It seems that high estrogen can effect the pituitary gland and that also plays a role in the thyroid function. given my body mass increase mainly fat and some decrease in muscle. With a continuing good diet and working out. Also with my almost zero sex drive even though my testosterone is in the normal range I was thinking of giving a small dose of testosterone 250mg a week a try. To see if it helps. my blood sugar after a 12 hour fast in the am after waking was a little high nothing to be alarmed over. he even tested me after eating went back to normal within 2 hours.
oh yeah forgot to mention I do take t-4 synthroid
Not so worried about the test but would like to test the Novaldex about 10mg day to see how it may work as a blocker. See if that helps my Weight and sex drive.

vettman08
You would think the increase in sex drive idea my wife would be researching it for me lol. No she don't believe in drugs unless you are dieing. I listed what i take up top and she calls me a pill popper she says you need help. I said they are supplements but to her they are pills. the only one she don't give me a hard time over is the fish oil. even the doc told her they were good. She gripes when i take my asprin lol. Thanks for the advice.

OK i get that but it is a little hard when you have old or incomplete info. i don't see anywhere in your post your E2 level. did you test that recently? If your TSH level was normal then it is just a matter of looking to see if your t4/t3 ratio is good. Using a receptor blocker for E or an aromatase inhibitor will lower your E (side effects) and the ladder will boost your T by itself. But i would still want to know the starting point as too low E has its own issues. You say your sugar was a little high, what was the number. I think you want to be careful with your symptoms, as anything much over 90 plus could indicate your are pre type II. Just curious how much aspirin you are taking, and do you know your normal BP and cholesterol?

[ReBilly]

Sheesh, my ex was a nurse and she was brutal. She saw people dying all the time, so she never thought I needed any kind of meds unless I was seriously ill. She had no problem with drinking til you puke, but if you take a handful of supps a day you're killing yourself lol

You have pages of results right? Find estrogen in there and let us know what your numbers are. If your test is fine, especially your free test, you *probably* don't need HRT. If your estrogen is high, nolvadex won't lower it, it will only selectively block uptake in certain areas, it's specifically good for your breast area (gyno prevention). Probably won't do jack for your sex drive. In fact, SERMS tend to kill libido in a lot of cases.

Are you having gyno like symptoms? Puffy or sensitive nipples? Are you experiencing higher than normal stress? Problems with anxiety or depression? Libido is linked to a lot of stuff, not just test / estro. So is weight gain. It can be so many things, but your endo system is a great place to start trying to figure it out

If your test is high AND your estrogen is high, an AI might help your sex drive... but prolly not SERM like Nolva.

[riddick1059]

going to try and upload.. took photo's to keep from typing all of it... tell me what you think the testosterone was retaken and the creatine the doc says was because i workout (being high) they ar not in order the last page is 1 second to last is page 2 middle is page 2 middle second is page 3 top and first is page 2 bottom. I didn't see any estrogen test.... these test were a but load of money lol 6 vials of blood. Thanks

[rmacgurn]

going to try and upload.. took photo's to keep from typing all of it... tell me what you think the testosterone was retaken and the creatine the doc says was because i workout (being high) they are not in order the last page is 1 second to last is page 2 middle is page 2 middle second is page 3 top and first is page 2 bottom. I didn't see any estrogen test.... these test were a but load of money lol 6 vials of blood. Thanks

Everything looks pretty normal but no E2, if you were taking test that would explain your higher free amount of test. But still surprised no E2 test there, and would not be taking estrogen meds without it. you cholesterol is good, but HDL a bit low, you can raise it with cardio, and niacin. If on test could be you converted some or a lot depending on you, to DHT or E2, but since your PSA looks good my guess is more to E2. Lots of stuff there you could probably have avoided and saved some $, no t3 either so looks like your pit is sending TSH out (unless you were taking some thyroid meds) and you have t4 looks OK so unless your t3 is low, that is fine. most docs look just at TSH and T4 to decide if you are hypo or have an thyroid issue, but you should still check as the correct ratio is about 15-20% t3 of total t3+t4. if that ratio is close than i would not mess with any thyroid hormone.

good luck

[riddick1059]

yeah I was on t-4 meds at the time... I didn't know if an estrogen test was done... I know. So what do you all think about me trying 10 mg of nolvadex. to see how my body acts over a period of about 2-6 months? (i'm trying to do something to show my wife and my doc hey look) then my doc might be willing to say ok the only things you have done was change this ?

The hdl has always been low I was running 6 days a week when that test was taken made me injury prone. that's another reason i was thinking estrogen might help.

From what I read on here it may help with ldl and hdl.... my ldl normally runs higher than that. I see my normal doc about every 3 months. The doc I went to (2hr drive) I promised my wife I wouldn't go back to if she would show more support. The wife says she was just taking my money. Trust me I love my wife but she don't think a pills helps anything.

Also at the time i was not taking Test. or Dhea nor Creatine... even my doc asked he said "most bodybuilders would kill to have testosterone that high" He even asked if i ate liquorish. I hate liquorish. But the test he did showed my testosterone at 2.5 i believe. I did start back taking creatine on my workout days while working out after he asked that question and dhea. I stopped taking the thyroid-s about two weeks ago heart rate got up to about 65bpm and body temp stayed at around 96 - 96.8 basal.

I really need some support guys will taking 10 mg of nolvadex a day hurt even if my body didn't need it or maybe some other AI? I know lots of people on here against self medicating. I'm not some 16 year old trying to get huge or improve in sports. I've always been all natural unless you count creatine and liver pills... just recently started researching this. Just trying to improve my general health.
Also no i don't have gyno.. I do have some chest fat over my muscle always have had some even when i was 160 lbs at 18 years old when i was in MMA.
The testosterone was a thought also. Like i tell my wife i know my body and something is off. I'm not looking for a magic pill looking to level the ground I'll do the hard work to get the fat off. Tired of eating right and working out to be going backwards. I workout and eat right to live good. I don't live to workout.
Sorry for the long repost just aggravated

let me put it like this
Hey guys thinking about running my FIRST CYCLE tell me what you think

First 12 weeks

250-300 mg/ml of Test. P a week
10 mg Nolv a day
For 12 weeks

that was not fair i know In all honesty the nolvadex or a good AI is what I'm more focused on.

[rmacgurn]

yeah I was on t-4 meds at the time... I didn't know if an estrogen test was done... I know. So what do you all think about me trying 10 mg of nolvadex. to see how my body acts over a period of about 2-6 months? (i'm trying to do something to show my wife and my doc hey look) then my doc might be willing to say ok the only things you have done was change this ?

The hdl has always been low I was running 6 days a week when that test was taken made me injury prone. that's another reason i was thinking estrogen might help.

From what I read on here it may help with ldl and hdl.... my ldl normally runs higher than that. I see my normal doc about every 3 months. The doc I went to (2hr drive) I promised my wife I wouldn't go back to if she would show more support. The wife says she was just taking my money. Trust me I love my wife but she don't think a pills helps anything.

Also at the time i was not taking Test. or Dhea nor Creatine... even my doc asked he said "most bodybuilders would kill to have testosterone that high" He even asked if i ate liquorish. I hate liquorish. But the test he did showed my testosterone at 2.5 i believe. I did start back taking creatine on my workout days while working out after he asked that question and dhea. I stopped taking the thyroid-s about two weeks ago heart rate got up to about 65bpm and body temp stayed at around 96 - 96.8 basal.

I really need some support guys will taking 10 mg of nolvadex a day hurt even if my body didn't need it or maybe some other AI? I know lots of people on here against self medicating. I'm not some 16 year old trying to get huge or improve in sports. I've always been all natural unless you count creatine and liver pills... just recently started researching this. Just trying to improve my general health.
Also no i don't have gyno.. I do have some chest fat over my muscle always have had some even when i was 160 lbs at 18 years old when i was in MMA.
The testosterone was a thought also. Like i tell my wife i know my body and something is off. I'm not looking for a magic pill looking to level the ground I'll do the hard work to get the fat off. Tired of eating right and working out to be going backwards. I workout and eat right to live good. I don't live to workout.
Sorry for the long repost just aggravated

let me put it like this
Hey guys thinking about running my FIRST CYCLE tell me what you think

First 12 weeks

250-300 mg/ml of Test. P a week
10 mg Nolv a day
For 12 weeks

that was not fair i know In all honesty the nolvadex or a good AI is what I'm more focused on.

Maybe its me, but i get the feeling we are beating around the bush here. you do not know your current estro levels and have never tested them, your T levels run ok to high, and your thyroid seems fine, but you want to take nolvadex. it is not an AI but an SERM, meaning it does not stop conversion of T to E. instead it has several effects since it competes with E for receptor binding it can prevent gyno when on high does of steroids that convert to E. It also can increase LH, FHS and Test levels (hence its use post cycle). And it can sometimes help with lipid profile. I say sometimes as i have not seen dramatic changes. AI's block conversion of test to E and will lower you total E2 levels, which may not be a good thing depending where they are now.

So again I ask why not test your E2 level and tell us again what you think you need nolva for? I lowered my ldl 100 points and added 6 pts to HDL in 4 weeks using niacin, polycosanol and aerobics.

IMO for a first cycle that would not be a good choice as you will be injecting ED or EOD better to use a longer ester T.

[ReBilly]

I'm not sure why you seem set on taking nolva, seems like a terrible idea if you ask me. SERMs tend to have sides, like killing your sex drive. Self medicating is what gets people in trouble, especially when it is so easy to find out exactly where your levels are at to see if you are treating the right thing or not. SERMs are good for fighting gyno, not so much as a well being enhancer, weight loss supplement, or libido booster.

[riddick1059]

ok simple enough guys so i need to test my e-2. Can i do it through the net? online lab? Doc and wife not supportive as shown above and do we know cost. I just wanting to get a handle on why I'm gaining so much fat loosing muscle other than the " you are get older answer" So E2 test it is.

[ReBilly]

Get a new doc. You don't have to keep a doctor that won't help you

[ricksherryjosh]

Just from what I read on here If your estrogen is high liquadex is what you would need not nolva. Also 2.5 on the test is low right?