Blood Test Results in, You Opinions Please

[forrest_and_trees]

Well I just got my test results back and there are a couple of note, mainly that at 200mg injections weekly, my total test is high. That and my Estradiol seems *really* high... Other than that, TSH, T4 free and Free T3 along with Lipids seem to be normal. Results are as follows:

Total Testosterone = 1132 [Normal is 275 -830]
Estradiol = 167 [Normal is 20-50]
TSH = .54 [Normal is .4-5.5]
T4 Free = 1.08 [Normal is .58 -1.64]
Free T3 = 3.4 [Normal is 2.3-4.2]
Lipid Panel = 179 [Below 200 is Normal]
HDL = 34 [Doc says it should be 40]
LDL = 121 [Below 130 is Normal]
TRI = 120 [150 and below is best]

The surprise for me was how high both my Test and especially my estrogen levels are. I've already asked the doc about Liquidex or Arimidex and he's going to look into them since he's not familiar with either and get back to me. Anyone else experience such high levels? What are the implications? As for my test levels, he's recommend that I lower my weekly dosage from 1ml @ 200mg per ml to .8ml.

Your opinions are welcome.

[nwjt]

Stats?

[forrest_and_trees]

I hate to sound ignorant, but which stats are you referring to? Age? 42. Height? 6Ft. Weight? 340. BF%? Don't know. Is that what you're referring?

[nwjt]

Yes. Odd, I am on the same dose my my total T is only a little over 700. I just wondered if you are bigger or smaller than me.

I wonder why yours are so much higher than mine?

[forrest_and_trees]

I also take 50mg DHEA daily, which is also supposed to help up the levels naturally. Are you on that as well?

[nwjt]

I also take 50mg DHEA daily, which is also supposed to help up the levels naturally. Are you on that as well?

No only the T and some thyroid meds.

[ReBilly]

If you take an AI and maintain your current test dose, your test will be much higher. If you're on TRT just to feel normal, this prolly won't be considered "normal"... might feel good once you get the estrogen down, like alpha beast mode with supercharged libido, but prolly not normal.

With estrogen that high, are you experiencing any puffiness, sensitive nips, emotional issues, lack of libido, or anxiety?

Also, I don't know if you plan on doing TRT long term or if you're just trying it, but you'll prolly need some HCG to avoid shut down. This will also up your androgens, and will convert to estrogen as well, so your numbers will be higher on both sides.

Most anti-aging docs, if they are going to add a good AI the mix, would probably decrease your weekly test shot and add HCG as well and tell you to stop taking DHEA. They usually aim for higher than 700 total test, but lower than 900. Some of the cooler ones might let you float around 1000 but with estrogen that high it might be counterproductive unless your only goal is getting bigger and stronger

[forrest_and_trees]

Nope, it's not a body building thing, I'm just trying to feel normal and yes, it will be a lifelong regimen. Before I started on TRT, my total T level was 174 am I already too late for HCG ? Is it even possible for me to return to a "normal" life *without* TRT? I had already accepted it and just assumed I'm on it for life.

I've already asked my doc about Liquidex and Arimidex . He's not familiar with them but said he'd do some research and get back to me. I explained to him briefly what they're for and he's open to adding it once he understands it better. So far he's been a GREAT doc, and more than willing to work with me even on things he's not familiar with. If I provide him reasonable data and studies, he'll go and do the footwork to back it up and so far he's supported all of my requests so I'm hoping he'll do the same with the Arimidex. He's already suggested I lower my weekly shot from 1ml @200mg to .8 however he hadn't said anything about the DHEA which was also a request of mine to begin with.

As far as puffiness, sensitive nips, emotional issues, lack of libido, or anxiety? The answer is pretty much yep, accept for the sensitive nips. Wow... just thinking about all this I cant wait to get my Estro levels down and start feeling normal again!

Thanks all for the input!

[ReBilly]

Well as long as you're committed for a lifelong journey I will spare you the preaching about cycling... still be careful tho because your roller coaster ride won't stop until your levels stay in check for a while.

I don't know if it's too late tbh, I don't know the root of your low T or how long it's been like that, but HCG is par for course these days. I've had a pretty severely damaged nut for years, went on TRT, and once they added HCG viola my boy was back. I don't know if that's a permanent thing or if I need to keep kicking it into gear to keep it working, but at least its not small and sore now.

I'm glad you have a good doctor, so many people get stuck with high and mighty god complex pricks. My doc is pretty cool too. He only tells me no when I need to hear no lol

If your doc wants to go down to .8, try to convinced him to move slower maybe... From 200 to 80 is quite a dive. Maybe 200 to 180 at first, exp if you're adding an AI and / or considering swapping your DHEA for HCG (if I convinced you to look into it maybe?)

[forrest_and_trees]

Just to clear one thing up, when I said my doc asked me go to .8 I meant from 1.0; and since 1.0ml = 200mg of Test Cyp, .8 = 160mg so it's not that big of a drop. He wants to get me in the mid 800's on my Total Test. As for the DHEA, I opted not to take it this morning and I'm hoping to hear back from my doc about the a *real* AI such as Arimidex / Liquidex (Anastrozole). I've been on an herbal based AI for almost two months however, with my recent test results as high as they are, clearly it's not strong enough. I am going to look into the HCG as it would be ideal if I could get my body's own production levels back to normal.

As for the cause of my Low T and High E, one can only say. At this point it's almost a chicken and egg issue however, I suspect it may be my High E may have caused the Low T.

As for why the high E? I'm thinking it may be a two-fold matter of genetic predisposition to the massive increases of non-natural estrogens on our modern environment. i.e. Food, pesticides, fertilizers. petroleum byproducts, water and air pollution etc. The more I learn the more I suspect we can't just blame fast-food for the near epidemic outbreak of obesity in modern society. It's the entire environment we've created. I'm just glad to put a name and root cause to my personal sufferings as it's not been a very pleasant experience going back nearly 20 years that has impacted nearly every single aspect of my life. It's something I wouldn't wish on anyone.

[nunyabizness]

Ignore me.

[ReBilly]

We're all around the androgens tho, it's rare that the same exposure would result in such dramatic differences from the rest of people who have lower test than past generations, but 174 is crazy low, and your E now is crazy high. There's almost *always* a root underlying cause if you're a really high converter or a low producer.

Anyways, I'm with your doc, lowering your T might swing you back in check. Adding HCG will increase both test and E so an AI might make sense if you go that route... but if you don't care about the size of your nutts or snapping back, you might only need the right dose of T to get both back in line.

[forrest_and_trees]

I'm by no means a professional or an expert on the subject however, logic would dictate it has to be one of three causes; genetic, environment or trauma. My case seems to be a bit out of the ordinary so as I disclaimed, I *may* have a genetic predisposition to environment which would explain why not everyone has had the same experience. it's just one of a number of possibilities. Frankly I'm just grasping at straws here trying to put some sense of reason behind all this. I have absolutely no solid ideas as to the root cause and if you think you may know something I don't, by all means, please don't keep me in the dark. I need as much input as I can get so I can get a better grasp on all this. Right now I'm open to any and all ideas.

P.S. As far as the size of my nuts, to be quite honest, they've always seemed to be on the "larger" size, and often, a bit uncomfortable as a result. Frankly, since I've began TRT, they have gone down a *little* but by no means have they shriveled up; if anything, they feel better.

[ReBilly]

dude, you and me and a lot of other people are in a similar spot. I know that I had a varicocele repair AND used to pop androstene like it was candy when they sold it as walmart, so that's what I suspect caused my symptoms, but even at that, it doesn't explain those random days when I felt just fine when I was unmedicated, or why sometimes I still don't feel good even though I am. It's a lifelong struggle for most it seems, and sometimes you never get to the bottom of it. But if you can at least improve your quality of life then **** it. Do what you gotta do bro

[ReBilly]

oh and btw I just red your stats you posted in a response- getting your weight down will have a significant affect on your body's ability to balance your hormones, on your sex drive, on your sense of well being, and on your energy levels. 340 is super high no matter how much muscle you have. Cardio and weights plus and good diet with lots of water should make a significant difference in your quality of life

[ReBilly]

oh and finally (sorry for all the responses)

Too much testosterone might be converted to estradiol by excess aromatase enzyme and/or the liver is failing to adequately detoxify surplus estrogen. Excess aromatase enzyme and/or liver dysfunction is likely the cause if estradiol levels are over 30, or if your test has been too high for a while. Aromatase converts testosterone into estradiol, which can cause estrogen overload AND testosterone deficiency.