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  1. #1
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    The "E Factor": Getting your Estorgen levels in line - Just as important as T

    [Note: I decided to compile this info into one simple and easy to understand post because it's something I didn't know when I started and wish someone had shared with me. Hopefully others will find it useful and save themselves the hassle of learning the hard way. ...or not at all.]

    Estradiol = Estrogen = E2

    Whether you actually have LowT or just LowT like symptoms or are on TRT for other purposes knowing and controlling your E2 is no less important than raising your Testosterone levels .

    This assertion is based on everything I've read or experienced in the past year of my dealings with Low T /HRT. It's a chicken and the egg riddle. Which came first? High E can actually cause Low T or even mask the effects of *High* T if you're already on TRT. Even worse, for those with advanced stages of LowT who have gained significant weight, excess body fat will actually *increase* the E production. It's a vicious cycle. As many already know, just being on TRT can increase your E levels as excess T turns in to E.

    While normal amounts of E2 in men are necessary for your libido and sexual performance among other things; too much can: lower your libido, effect your sexual performance, cause water retention, foggy thinking, fatigue, insomnia, "puffy nipples" moodiness, anxiety, depression, pain throughout your body, weight gain, "man boobs", loss of muscle mass, prostate problems, urinary problems, allergies, hot flashes, night sweats, etc.

    A number of factors can effect your E2 production levels regardless of your TRT program. How much T you have, whether you're taking DHEA, your diet, including various protein sources etc.

    There is a surprising amount of Estrogen in our food, and the environment around us, from sources you would never suspect. Do a search on Xenoestrogens and you'll see what I'm talking about.

    Recently someone on this site, with *normal* T levels was having problems and it came down to the likelihood his E2 was high even though he did not have any of the classic traits of someone with a pre-existing E imbalance. It turns out he was consuming a significant amount of soy products which is very high in estrogen.

    Adversely, *Low E* can also be a problem. Those on estrogen blockers should be aware that it's entirely possible to overshoot the mark. This can be just as bad with such symptoms as: loss of libido, erectile dysfunction, loss of bone density, moodiness, hot flashes, night sweats, fatigue, loss of hair, headaches, insomnia, increased body fat, etc.

    In my particular case, my E2 was 167 on 200mg of Test Cyp weekly which put my Total T at 1032. I was also taking 50mg of DHEA daily. Once I found out about my E2 levels, I dropped the DHEA, lowered my Test Cyp to 180mg weekly. Then I started on Adex and after *only* 6 weeks, my E2 was down to 47 and Total T was 923. I'm now dialing back the T even further to 150mg weekly and tapering my Adex as well. I should know in another 4 weeks what the change is and will update this thread when I know.

    I only wish I had known about the Estrogen factor when I started off on this journey. It might have help save me some time and grief. I'm fully convinced that addressing the "E Factor" on a TRT regimen is essential.

    If it's not already part of your program, then I highly suggest you look into it.
    Last edited by forrest_and_trees; 08-24-2010 at 01:03 PM.

  2. #2
    BillyBob210's Avatar
    BillyBob210 is offline Junior Member
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    Well said Forrest!

  3. #3
    flatscat's Avatar
    flatscat is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Don't forget as your bf drops so probably will your need for an ai be reduced or eliminated.

    Also not sure what free t has to do with E2 production. Can you explain this for me?

    Thanks

  4. #4
    tboney's Avatar
    tboney is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by forrest_and_trees View Post
    [Note: I decided to compile this info into one simple and easy to understand post because it's something I didn't know when I started and wish someone had shared with me. Hopefully others will find it useful and save themselves the hassle of learning the hard way. ...or not at all.]

    Estradiol = Estrogen = E2

    Whether you actually have LowT or just LowT like symptoms or are on TRT for other purposes knowing and controlling your E2 is no less important than raising your Testosterone levels .

    This assertion is based on everything I've read or experienced in the past year of my dealings with Low T /HRT. It's a chicken and the egg riddle. Which came first? High E can actually cause Low T or even mask the effects of *High* T if you're already on TRT. Even worse, for those with advanced stages of LowT who have gained significant weight, excess body fat will actually *increase* the E production. It's a vicious cycle. As many already know, just being on TRT can increase your E levels as excess T turns in to E.

    While normal amounts of E2 in men are necessary for your libido and sexual performance among other things; too much can: lower your libido, effect your sexual performance, cause water retention, foggy thinking, fatigue, insomnia, "puffy nipples" moodiness, anxiety, depression, pain throughout your body, weight gain, "man boobs", loss of muscle mass, prostate problems, urinary problems, allergies, hot flashes, night sweats, etc.

    A number of factors can effect your E2 production levels regardless of your TRT program. How much free T you have, whether you're taking DHEA, your diet, including various protein sources etc.

    There is a surprising amount of Estrogen in our food, and the environment around us, from sources you would never suspect. Do a search on Xenoestrogens and you'll see what I'm talking about.

    Recently someone on this site, with *normal* T levels was having problems and it came down to the likelihood his E2 was high even though he did not have any of the classic traits of someone with a pre-existing E imbalance. It turns out he was consuming a significant amount of soy products which is very high in estrogen.

    Adversely, *Low E* can also be a problem. Those on estrogen blockers should be aware that it's entirely possible to overshoot the mark. This can be just as bad with such symptoms as: loss of libido, erectile dysfunction, loss of bone density, moodiness, hot flashes, night sweats, fatigue, loss of hair, headaches, insomnia, increased body fat, etc.

    In my particular case, my E2 was 167 on 200mg of Test Cyp weekly which put my Total T at 1032. I was also taking 50mg of DHEA daily. Once I found out about my E2 levels, I dropped the DHEA, lowered my Test Cyp to 180mg weekly. Then I started on Adex and after *only* 6 weeks, my E2 was down to 47 and Total T was 923. I'm now dialing back the T even further to 150mg weekly and tapering my Adex as well. I should know in another 4 weeks what the change is and will update this thread when I know.

    I only wish I had known about the Estrogen factor when I started off on this journey. It might have help save me some time and grief. I'm fully convinced that addressing the "E Factor" on a TRT regimen is essential.

    If it's not already part of your program, then I highly suggest you look into it.
    Good write up!

    My understanding is that excess body fat does not increase estro, its that it increases aromatase enzymes which can make you more succeptable to the side effects of high levels of estrogen.

    Thats just my understanding.... I could be wrong.
    Last edited by tboney; 08-24-2010 at 07:52 AM. Reason: spelling

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by tboney View Post
    Good write up!

    My understanding is that excess body fat does not increase estro, its that it increases aromatase enzymes which can make you more succeptable to the side effects of high levels of estrogen.

    Thats just my understanding.... I could be wrong.
    Let me amend part of my above written statement.. I just read a study indicating that fat cells, which are loaded with aromatase enzymes, can produce estrogen by way of that aromatase. So you are technically correct.
    Last edited by tboney; 08-24-2010 at 08:11 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by flatscat View Post
    Don't forget as your bf drops so probably will your need for an ai be reduced or eliminated.

    Also not sure what free t has to do with E2 production. Can you explain this for me?

    Thanks
    This is true, once you find your balance or "sweet spot" for your T and get your E levels in check, especially after loosing the body fat, continued use of an AI can be reduced or eliminated altogether, abiding you have your levels checked about every 6-9 months just to be safe.

    As for the Free T to E, that was a typo, it should read "Total T" or simply "T'. Thanks for pointing that out.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by forrest_and_trees View Post
    This is true, once you find your balance or "sweet spot" for your T and get your E levels in check, especially after loosing the body fat, continued use of an AI can be reduced or eliminated altogether, abiding you have your levels checked about every 6-9 months just to be safe.

    As for the Free T to E, that was a typo, it should read "Total T" or simply "T'. Thanks for pointing that out.
    Thought so, nice post.

  8. #8
    PPC
    PPC is offline Super Knowledgeable ~ Female Member
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    Excellent info Forrest,

    Losing fat may help some guys with less aromatization. However, there is a theory that cells have memory and even fat cells that have shrunk considerably in size will stay good little armomatizers.

    This has proved true with my husband. He was 35 pounds overweight. He lost 30 of them but still is a huge T-E converter.

    It is good being able to follow your journey. Keeping everybody updated with your progress and new knowledge is a great thing.

  9. #9
    Vettester is offline Banned
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    Forrest, just curious if you are taking HCG or might be looking at adding to your protocol in the near future?

  10. #10
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    [Vetteman] Yes; in fact HCG is my next step. I expect to be adding it here shortly. Thanks for bringing that up.

    [PPC] Interesting, I'd heard about fat cell memory when it comes to easily putting it back on, once you've got it however, I had not heard about the aromatis issue. From what I've come across in my research, reducing the fat should reduce the T-E conversion however, clearly there are exceptions from what you've said. [Good thing we've got AI's] I'll have to do some more looking into that. Thanks for the heads up..

    And thanks all for the support and input. Like I said, these are things I would have liked to have known early on, so I figure there are others out there who can benefit from the info too. I'm still amazed at all the knowledge and experience floating around this site, not to mention the willingness of everyone to step up and help out. Much appreciation! Please keep it coming!
    Last edited by forrest_and_trees; 08-24-2010 at 10:49 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by forrest_and_trees View Post
    [Vetteman] Yes; in fact HCG is my next step. I expect to be adding it here shortly. Thanks for bringing that up.

    [PPC] Interesting, I'd heard about fat cell memory when it comes to easily putting it back on, once you've got it however, I had not heard about the aromatis issue. From what I've come across in my research, reducing the fat should reduce the T-E conversion however, clearly there are exceptions from what you've said. [Good thing we've got AI's] I'll have to do some more looking into that. Thanks for the heads up..

    And thanks all for the support and input. Like I said, these are things I would have liked to have known early on, so I figure there are others out there who can benefit from the info too. I'm still amazed at all the knowledge and experience floating around this site, not to mention the willingness of everyone to step up and help out. Much appreciation! Please keep it coming!

    I agree. Thanks to everyone!

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