Newbie First Post "HRT/TRT" Questions !

[chopper999]

G'day everyone Aussie Chopper999 here from downunder -

This is my first post on here - I have read 100's of reply posts from you guys to other people on this forum { you seem to know more than your Doctors lol }

I was wondering if anyone else here has had my current situation - I had some blood work done " several times infact" and my doctor informed me I had low Testosterone levels this did not surprise me at 47 years of age also with symptoms of depression,lack of motivation,no interest in life in general.

Anyway all the doc would tell was that my Testosterone level number was 8 and it should be or could be as high as 33 in a healthy male.

The doc offered me Testogel 50mg/5g to be used everyday - I have read on this site and also in the supplied medication documentaion that 10 % max of Testosterone is absorbed from the gel in a 24 hour peroid into the body - this would be 5mg Test absorbed per day per gel application or 35mg of Testosterone absorbed total per week.


My questions are - has anybody on this forum used this Testogel 50 mg product for a decent amount of time and did they find it neccessary to use an Ai while on it. { I intend to be on TRT for good }

Do you think 35 mg of TRT aweek will give me symptoms of " Bitch tits" or Testicle shut down and shrinkage eventually ?

Should I mention "Arimidex " before hand to my Doctor before I start this TRT - most of the posts here on this forum say your a dickhead if you dont have your PCT sorted out before starting a cycle { By the way I have never used a steroids cycle before in my life and don't intend to but I will start TRT for life soon }.

Does this PCT advice apply to me starting a 5mg absorption of Test per day from a gel app or 35 mg total per week { This seems quite a low amount of Test to me but then again I don't know NOTHING at all about this TRT/HRT business }

If anyone could reply to these ?'s before I start my TRT I would be for ever in your debt.

Cheers Chopper999

[TRT2010]

First welcome to the board. And No you do not need PCT. You are on TRT which meens prob for the rest of your life just like me "26". and there is no need for it. You will not be getting off it any time soon unless you dont want to cont therepy. If you mention that you would rather have injections i am certain he would agree to it. Yes you can also mention arimidex ( anastrozole) incase you aromatize testosterone quickly. .5 mg twice a week will take care of that.

[chopper999]

First welcome to the board. And No you do not need PCT. You are on TRT which meens prob for the rest of your life just like me "26". and there is no need for it. You will not be getting off it any time soon unless you dont want to cont therepy. If you mention that you would rather have injections i am certain he would agree to it. Yes you can also mention arimidex ( anastrozole) incase you aromatize testosterone quickly. .5 mg twice a week will take care of that.

G'day TRT2010 - thanks a million for the helpful info and posting a reply so quick.
A couple of ?'s - Do you think 35 mg of TRT aweek will give me symptoms of " Bitch tits" or Testicle shut down and shrinkage eventually ? or will I just have to wait and see what happens.

If and When I need to take .5mg of Arimidex twice a week do I take that dose permanently while on TRT for good.

Cheers Chopper999

[Vettester]

Welcome to the HRT Forum, glad you joined! I'm not sure about your testosterone score/reference range either, but it obviously looks to be low no matter how you stack it.

I used AndroGel when I first started out. Hard to say if 10% gets absorbed, or 8%, 11% ... Lot of factors including clothing and contact with people, pets & other obstacles. I started feeling sick after about 5 or 6 months on the stuff, and my test score was all over the place on it. In my case it wasn't very stable or consistent. Switched to injections and everything leveled out!

I would ask your doctor to test your estradiol level (E2) before starting up. Only then will you know where you need to be at with taking any AI meds. You will want to retest in about 6 weeks to see what your scores are. Your testicles are probably shut down already, which is why you're needing TRT. Your doctor should have ran a panel showing your LH/FSH levels. Permitting you're LH is low and you are secondary, you can look into some HCG to compliment your program. HCG will take a sack of nuts that have been LH deprived and make them stallions again!

[Epic Ed]

You are very unlikely to run into high estrogen issues or gyno problems running a TRT dose of any gel. We all react differently, but it's unlikely.

When looking at your blood work numbers, the number isn't as important as knowing where the number lies in relation to the reference range for the category. If he said your number is "8" you need to know the reference range for the value in order to understand the whole picture. It would also be helpful to know what your estrogen values are -- that would give you a better idea of whether you might need an AI or not.

[zaggahamma]

5mg(50mg) gel is an often starting point for conservative doctors...

if you're truly low T and are suffering those symptoms you should however feel better (at first) also increase mood, energy, libido...

it really becomes a pain to rub on that shiat EVERYDAY and wait to dress, etc....agree with above....very few people i've ever heard happy on gel therapy...

i wouldnt imagine you would have gyno on such a small dose but u never know...blood work as stated by vette, etc. will be your best friend also pay attention to how u feel...as far as the nuttage....you could have some atrophy after time as youre testis stop producing their own due to your smearage applications...

as said above and once again...you'll like a once a week injection better

welcome

[chopper999]

Welcome to the HRT Forum, glad you joined! I'm not sure about your testosterone score/reference range either, but it obviously looks to be low no matter how you stack it.

I used AndroGel when I first started out. Hard to say if 10% gets absorbed, or 8%, 11% ... Lot of factors including clothing and contact with people, pets & other obstacles. I started feeling sick after about 5 or 6 months on the stuff, and my test score was all over the place on it. In my case it wasn't very stable or consistent. Switched to injections and everything leveled out!

I would ask your doctor to test your estradiol level (E2) before starting up. Only then will you know where you need to be at with taking any AI meds. You will want to retest in about 6 weeks to see what your scores are. Your testicles are probably shut down already, which is why you're needing TRT. Your doctor should have ran a panel showing your LH/FSH levels. Permitting you're LH is low and you are secondary, you can look into some HCG to compliment your program. HCG will take a sack of nuts that have been LH deprived and make them stallions again!

G'day Vetteman - thank you for the helpful info - I will ask my doc to test my E2 level before starting TRT. { I am surprised he did not mention it {E2 level} he just gave me a 6 month supply of 50mg Test Gel although I have not applied 1 application yet.}

My doc sent me for several Testosterone blood test's at least that all it said on the Pathology paper I took to the blood center i.e. Test for testosterone I did not see LH/FSH mentioned on the pathology paper or is that included anyway when they test for testosterone levels ?

I will mention the HCG to my doc as well - I hope he knows what I am talking about i.e. LH/FSH levels and HCG without thinking I am being a smart ass sounds like the HCG supplementation with the TRT could be just the double barrel shot blast I need to feel normal and good again.

Thanks again for the info - Cheers Chopper999

p.s. Thank you everyone else for all the help - Epic Ed and jpkman.

[flatscat]

Welcome to the board! You are at the right place my friend.
X2 on the above advise.

Flats

[flatscat]

I might also ask what your stats are: height, weight, bf%, diet, cardio, strength training?

[chopper999]

I might also ask what your stats are: height, weight, bf%, diet, cardio, strength training?

G,day Flatscat - my height is 5 feet 10.5 inches my weight is 253 pounds I need to lose about 5 to 6 stone - as far as bf% goes all my doctor told me was that I was obese.

My diet and cardio I have just started 15 km aday cardio on the bike 5 to 6 days a week and smaller potions of food on my plate.

As far as training goes I have not trained for several years I just let this Low testosterone take over my life - lost motivation hoping to get it all back on TRT. - funny thing though my arm size is still 16.75 inches the same it was before I stop weight lifing as a hobby several years ago - I started weight training at age 40 and stopped at age 44 arms went from 14 inches to 16.75 no roids cycles and also in that 4 years of training I took heaps of time off so I would say I only trained for 18 months to 2 years max in a 4 year peroid.

Cheers Chopper999

[chopper999]

Oh - another thing I also suffer from sleep apnoea had operation to open up nasal passage but still suffer now and then from sleep apnoea at night time.

I have read that TRT can cause/make worse sleep apnoea in people anyone on the forum had trouble with sleep apnoea after starting TRT.

Cheers Chopper999

[zaggahamma]

Oh - another thing I also suffer from sleep apnoea had operation to open up nasal passage but still suffer now and then from sleep apnoea at night time.

I have read that TRT can cause/make worse sleep apnoea in people anyone on the forum had trouble with sleep apnoea after starting TRT.

Cheers Chopper999

cpap?

[chopper999]

Yes - jpkman I have an appointment with the sleep clinic next week for application for a cpap machine I guess I will just have to tell them about me TRT so if it does make my sleep apnoea worse they can set the settings of the cpap machine higher to compensate.

Cheers Chopper999

[Vettester]

If you want some inspiration just look at Flatscat's pics in his public profile. It shows what can be done in actually a short period of time. Hope that's OK, flats.

[chopper999]

G'day Vetteman I received the following message when I tried to access flatscat public profile -

chopper999, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

[chopper999]

If you want some inspiration just look at Flatscat's pics in his public profile. It shows what can be done in actually a short period of time. Hope that's OK, flats.

G'day Vetteman I received the following message when I tried to access flatscat public profile -

chopper999, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation

[zaggahamma]

G'day Vetteman I received the following message when I tried to access flatscat public profile -

chopper999, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation

gave in and posted

here's a link to mr. transformer's pics....you'l note he posted the after pics first post #1 and the before post #15....we'll wanna see the same from u by march

[zaggahamma]

p.s.

you prolly gotta have 25 posts for such security clearance.....go check out the lounge and make some jokes you'll have 25 b4 the weekend

cheers

[zaggahamma]

What you think

[flatscat]

If you want some inspiration just look at Flatscat's pics in his public profile. It shows what can be done in actually a short period of time. Hope that's OK, flats.

It is all good.

PS take your own before pic now chopper - u will freak out in 5-6 months if u work hard when u look back on it.

[flatscat]

gave in and posted

here's a link to mr. transformer's pics....you'l note he posted the after pics first post #1 and the before post #15....we'll wanna see the same from u by march

how bout this

[flatscat]

G,day Flatscat - my height is 5 feet 10.5 inches my weight is 253 pounds I need to lose about 5 to 6 stone - as far as bf% goes all my doctor told me was that I was obese.

My diet and cardio I have just started 15 km aday cardio on the bike 5 to 6 days a week and smaller potions of food on my plate.

As far as training goes I have not trained for several years I just let this Low testosterone take over my life - lost motivation hoping to get it all back on TRT. - funny thing though my arm size is still 16.75 inches the same it was before I stop weight lifing as a hobby several years ago - I started weight training at age 40 and stopped at age 44 arms went from 14 inches to 16.75 no roids cycles and also in that 4 years of training I took heaps of time off so I would say I only trained for 18 months to 2 years max in a 4 year peroid.

Cheers Chopper999

lots to talk about here. those numbers sound real familiar to me. your prolly 25-30% bf with seeing pic's.

too much to talk about tonight though. will be back in a couple of hours and write a novel

[chopper999]

gave in and posted

here's a link to mr. transformer's pics....you'l note he posted the after pics first post #1 and the before post #15....we'll wanna see the same from u by march

jpkman - No worries as we say in Australia - flatscat weight loss is great and impressive I am sure I can match it by March.

On another note I have attached an avatar it is a pic of me after 1 to 4 years of TRT LOL

Cheers Chopper

p.s. My next post will have a current pic of me attached at 253 pounds.

[chopper999]

jpkman and flatscat as promised a current photo of me August 31st - 2010 - I am 253 pounds of excess lard in this photo lol

[Epic Ed]

RE: Sleep apnea -- I've got it pretty bad. I've been on a CPAP for about three years and it really helps. Getting a sleep study done and subsequently getting on a CPAP was actually my first step in a rather long road back to health and fitness. If you're not getting restful sleep everything else is an up hill battle. I did not notice my apnea getting worse after starting TRT, but that's probably due to two factors -- first, I'm already on a CPAP, and secondly TRT has helped me lose weight. The greater the weight loss the less the sleep apnea symptoms for most people.

[flatscat]

Chop, see random thoughts thread. Most of it is applicable to you I think.

[chopper999]

G'day - I forgot to mention that I was 46 years old with no kids -

but if I go on TRT will it mean that I will have no kids in the future { Balls shutting down for good } or can I stay on TRT for 10 years and if I meet a woman come off it for a while and use some drugs to kick start my balls into action again - get her pregnant - then go back on the TRT.

Alternatively the Biotest company have a product or should I say 2 products { Tribex Blue and Alpha Male } - The goal of these products is to stimulate the body to increase its own Testosterone levels all the way up to what's considered high normal (+1000 ng/dl) but do it in a way that's not inhibitory, like steroids are.

websitesfound here -

http://www.biotestaustralia.com/products/tribex.html

http://www.biotestaustralia.com/prod...lpha_male.html

They cliam that -

The secret to the success of Tribex is found in its super potent extract of genuine, Bulgarian Tribulus terrestris, Vitex agnus castus and Eurycoma Longifolia. As mentioned before the goal is to stimulate the body to increase its own Testosterone levels all the way up to what's considered high normal (+1000 ng/dl) but do it in a way that's not inhibitory, like steroids are.

So if this is true I could take either one of these products for life cycling on and off - get my test levels up to HIGH NORMAL (+1000 ng/dl). and NEVER having to worry about any side effects such as Bitch tits or Balls shrinking or permanant impotency.

BIG ? - Has anybody on this forum used these Boitest products or considered using these products to achieve high normal test levels without TRT side effects.

Cheers Chopper.

p.s. Anyone know how to load an avatar up on the site - thanks.

[ds53]

I'm on TRT with a extreme diet and have dosed up to 600mgs a week to prevent muscle wasting. I was givin this dose after quite a bit of muscle wasting even though I am working out heavy with weight. The only time I have had any e-sides was dosing above 300mg weekley at this dosage I was able to get something at a nutrition shop called Aromidex and it worked fine, it even brought my nuts back to normal. At 600 mg a week I am using .5 anastrozole (arimidex ) daily and have no sensitivity in the nips and holding way less water. I happy apnea as well and have been using a c-pap for 10 yrs. That is probably the best thing I ever did for my overall long term health. I adjusted my machine up 1 setting when I started the trt and have not had any problems. My wife would let me know if I am snoring or showing signs of apnea!! Good luck on the therapy!

[chopper999]

I'm on TRT with a extreme diet and have dosed up to 600mgs a week to prevent muscle wasting. I was givin this dose after quite a bit of muscle wasting even though I am working out heavy with weight. The only time I have had any e-sides was dosing above 300mg weekley at this dosage I was able to get something at a nutrition shop called Aromidex and it worked fine, it even brought my nuts back to normal. At 600 mg a week I am using .5 anastrozole (arimidex) daily and have no sensitivity in the nips and holding way less water. I happy apnea as well and have been using a c-pap for 10 yrs. That is probably the best thing I ever did for my overall long term health. I adjusted my machine up 1 setting when I started the trt and have not had any problems. My wife would let me know if I am snoring or showing signs of apnea!! Good luck on the therapy!

G'day Ds53 - yes just got back from the sleep disorder clinic - have to spend 1 more night with them before I get my cpap machine - great news to hear you can turn these machines up a setting or 2 it your apnoea starts to get worse.

On the subject of TRT - My Doc gave me 6 months supply of TESTOGEL 50.mg to be applied every day although when I asked him if he would give me an AI if I should show signs of gyno he just gave me a look and said he would stop the TRT treatment instead if that happened.

Thats why I been looking into the products by biotest company { see my previous post } their goal is to stimulate the body to increase its own Testosterone levels all the way up to what's considered high normal (+1000 ng/dl). And not only that, but do it in a way that's not inhibitory, like steroids are. i.e. No side effects what so ever.

Anyway thanks for the info - by the way do you know how
upload an avatar on this site, - Cheers Chopper.

[zaggahamma]

ask that biotest company if you can pay when your test levels reach 1,000 like their claming....

been reading posts for over 4 years here and own research and have heard of compounds to boost natty test SLIGHTLY but never this claim

[chopper999]

ask that biotest company if you can pay when your test levels reach 1,000 like their claming....

been reading posts for over 4 years here and own research and have heard of compounds to boost natty test SLIGHTLY but never this claim

G'day jpkman - The Biotest company who makes alpha male and tribex test boosters is located in the U.S.A. - If you google the words ******** a link will come up or just press here -

http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&sour...87b69bb73dd8af


I guess the only way to find out is to try the product for a while and then have your BW done.

Cheers Chopper

p.s. Can you please tell me where I go on this site to add an avatar to my profile.

[Vettester]

ask that biotest company if you can pay when your test levels reach 1,000 like their claming....

been reading posts for over 4 years here and own research and have heard of compounds to boost natty test SLIGHTLY but never this claim

Chopper, read what jpkman has posted real carefully. The stuff you're looking at isn't going to work as a TRT substitute. If those supplements really do raise test levels to 1,000+ don't you think most of us would already be doing it already? If your test levels are fine, then maybe adding some of those products will help give some minor enhancement. If you have confirmed hypogonadism then what you really need is TRT. Plus, you don't need a doc threatening to drop your program if you get gyno!!! ... What you need is a doc to administer and monitor a proper protocol that will keep your body balanced, which includes making sure you never come close to ever seeing gyno in the first place.

As for your Avatar ... Scroll to the top of the page and click "User CP". Scroll down on the left hand side and click "Edit Avatar". You can upload a picture from there.

[chopper999]

Chopper, read what jpkman has posted real carefully. The stuff you're looking at isn't going to work as a TRT substitute. If those supplements really do raise test levels to 1,000+ don't you think most of us would already be doing it already? If your test levels are fine, then maybe adding some of those products will help give some minor enhancement. If you have confirmed hypogonadism then what you really need is TRT. Plus, you don't need a doc threatening to drop your program if you get gyno!!! ... What you need is a doc to administer and monitor a proper protocol that will keep your body balanced, which includes making sure you never come close to ever seeing gyno in the first place.

As for your Avatar ... Scroll to the top of the page and click "User CP". Scroll down on the left hand side and click "Edit Avatar". You can upload a picture from there.

G'day Vetteman08 - Thanks for all the helpful info and your concern - I would have thought the major reason people have not tried Biotest's products is not the fact if they work as cliamed BUT rather the price of staying on them full time - once they find out if they do indeed raise test to 1,000+ - I guess what they should say in their advertising is " These products will only work in raising test if you already have healthy levels - so are you saying they are outright liars and should be stopped for false advertising or is it has I said the only way to truly find out is to use them and see what happens or is it the case with hypogonadism that no matter what you chuck at your balls IT AIN'T NEVER GONNA WORK - they will never work again to produce high test levels.

Your right about my Doc - what a prick so now I have 6 months supply of TESTOGEL but I am scared to start using it cause really the first thing I gotta do is find another Doctor who will do as you say :

{ What you need is a doc to administer and monitor a proper protocol that will keep your body balanced, which includes making sure you never come close to ever seeing gyno in the first place } that sort of sounds like pretty hard to achieve if they start upping your dose of Test to a higher level.

Thanks for the avatar info - Cheers Chopper.

[Vettester]

The supplement companies are in place to make $$, plain and simple. Take most of your protein and pre-workout drinks ... They all have guys like Jay Cutler doing endorsements about how "you" will get ripped with this product. It's just sales and marketing! If you have a medical condition that requires TRT then the way to treat it is by taking TRT. Plus, aiming for 1,000 "T" score really doesn't make sense. Aim for what the body needs for being optimal. That might be 700 or 790, or some other number ... That's what a balanced HRT program is all about.

A properly administered program will also include estrogen supervision. This is real easy to overcome with just a little AI added throughout the regiment.

[chopper999]

The supplement companies are in place to make $$, plain and simple. Take most of your protein and pre-workout drinks ... They all have guys like Jay Cutler doing endorsements about how "you" will get ripped with this product. It's just sales and marketing! If you have a medical condition that requires TRT then the way to treat it is by taking TRT. Plus, aiming for 1,000 "T" score really doesn't make sense. Aim for what the body needs for being optimal. That might be 700 or 790, or some other number ... That's what a balanced HRT program is all about.

A properly administered program will also include estrogen supervision. This is real easy to overcome with just a little AI added throughout the regiment.

Vetteman08 - Your dead right about a properly administered program will also include estrogen supervision - my paky doctor was not having none of it infact when I began to explain to him GYNO in medical terms and the need for a AI he just gave me a look that said I was being a smart ass and that my TRT treatment would be stopped if gyno started to happen - bottom line NO AI to be handed out only TESTOGEL what a wanker. - Cheers Chopper

p.s. On the subject of supplements have you ever tried Ronny Colemans NO - EXPLODE pre workout drink I did and I was running around jacked up feeling like I just did a huge line of coke freaking toe tapping for hours on that shit lol

[zaggahamma]

Vetteman08 - Your dead right about a properly administered program will also include estrogen supervision - my paky doctor was not having none of it infact when I began to explain to him GYNO in medical terms and the need for a AI he just gave me a look that said I was being a smart ass and that my TRT treatment would be stopped if gyno started to happen - bottom line NO AI to be handed out only TESTOGEL what a wanker. - Cheers Chopper

p.s. On the subject of supplements have you ever tried Ronny Colemans NO - EXPLODE pre workout drink I did and I was running around jacked up feeling like I just did a huge line of coke freaking toe tapping for hours on that shit lol

if u responded that well to no explode then u got your money's worth

[chopper999]

UPDATE - Had false reading on weighing scales - I actually weigh 18.6 stone or 261 pounds and not 253 pounds which was what I thoght I weighed so I got an extra 8 pounds to lose lol -

Cheers Chopper.

[ds53]

I have been on TRT for 6 months while dieting using up to 300mg test cyp trying to prevent muscle wasting and did not have any real estrogen problems. Switched dr's to a HRT because of muscle wasting and the dosage was doubled! Dr. had me start off 1.5 arimidex for 5 days, then 1.5 mg every 3rd day. I also have apnea and agree that getting the c-pap machine may have been the single most important thing I have every done for my health, its just amazing how much GOOD sleep makes you feel. You start remembering phone numbers and things you had forgotten, and I hadnt had wood at night sleeping for years until I got the c-pap. Just wish I hadnt been so hard headed about the whole issue as I had the sleep study done 7 years before I decided to use c-pap.

[chopper999]

I have been on TRT for 6 months while dieting using up to 300mg test cyp trying to prevent muscle wasting and did not have any real estrogen problems. Switched dr's to a HRT because of muscle wasting and the dosage was doubled! Dr. had me start off 1.5 arimidex for 5 days, then 1.5 mg every 3rd day. I also have apnea and agree that getting the c-pap machine may have been the single most important thing I have every done for my health, its just amazing how much GOOD sleep makes you feel. You start remembering phone numbers and things you had forgotten, and I hadnt had wood at night sleeping for years until I got the c-pap. Just wish I hadnt been so hard headed about the whole issue as I had the sleep study done 7 years before I decided to use c-pap.

G'day ds53 - Thanks for the encouragement concerning Cpap - I have 1 more sleep over at the sleep clinic then I get my machine { Can't wait } I hate the choking at nighttime and waking up gasping for air jumping out of bed 3 foot in the air heart pounding out of my freaking chest so glad when it will be all over - ? does the cpap machine let you sleep all night without 1 incidence of apnea if that is true for me it will be Heaven.

Cheers - Chopper.

[zaggahamma]

G'day ds53 - Thanks for the encouragement concerning Cpap - I have 1 more sleep over at the sleep clinic then I get my machine { Can't wait } I hate the choking at nighttime and waking up gasping for air jumping out of bed 3 foot in the air heart pounding out of my freaking chest so glad when it will be all over - ? does the cpap machine let you sleep all night without 1 incidence of apnea if that is true for me it will be Heaven.

Cheers - Chopper.

that is what i have seen from from a friend...went from what your explaining to sleeping like a baby