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  1. #1
    flatscat's Avatar
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    Random thoughts on TRT and this board.

    1. High BF in males more often than not leads to higher E2 levels. One should do all he can to reduce BF, change diet, and start Cardio and strength training to develop more lean mass and redo BW to determine the need for trt at that point if at all possible. The addition of an AI alone may be sufficient enough to get over the hump. The addition of HCG may also help get one "over the hump" without adding extra t whether by gel or inj's. If you can't get this done and are low, then by all means you can go about the transformation of your low t body with the use of added t. The high BF will be your worst enemy though until you get it under control. If you have high BF, E2 and your doc knows nothing or wont prescribe and AI to start with start looking elsewhere immediately for a more knowledgeable physician.

    2. Most of us are deficient in Vit D. Get plenty of sun, or supplement if so.

    3. Frequent BW (every ten or so weeks) is essential your first 6 months on a trt protocol. Semi annual is okay after you have learned what works for your body and what doesn't. One of the really cool benefits of trt is you will get to know your body better than anytime in the past. You should pay attention to what it is saying at all times.

    4. Pay attention to this board - it is your BEST resource for information. I can almost promise you whatever concern you have has been talked about here. If not, there are a ton of good guys (and gals) that will try to point you in the right direction.

    5. Make friends with folks that may not necessarily hang out in the trt board much. You will need advise at some point on diet, exercise, maybe peptides, and general life questions as you go through this journey.

    6. Always be respectful and try to help others on this board as much as you can - pass it down as you have your own experiences.

    7. Never let anyone tell you or feel that what you are doing is wrong in any way.

    8. Resist the temptation to draw the plunger back a little more or rub some extra on - first, more is not always better. You will be on a roller coaster for a while until your body levels things off. Any change in dosage will make that process harder and you will probably feel worse. Establish your baseline BW results and constantly compare how you are doing with each subsequent lab work. Second, you will run out of your script early and may be without your t until you can get a refill. And lastly, your numbers might be higher than what the doctor wants which may lead to him lowering your dose because he didn't know you were taking more than he prescribed.

    9. TRT is not a perfect science. Most people go through periods of problems no matter how long they have been on. Don't give up - see #4!

    10. Remember that everything you take will effect everything you take. T should raise total and free t and E2, an AI should raise free and lower E2, HCG should raise total, free and E2 and so on and so on.

    11. Read #10 again!

    12. Use TRT to transform not only your body back where it should be normally, but your life as well. It helped me refocus on my wife, kids, job, friends, family and my body. It has the power to do all of these things if you do it right, take care of yourself, and are patient. Do not get in a rush to be beach ready (if you are overweight) in a month. It took a while for most of us to get to the point of needing trt, or realizing that we needed to make a change. It will take a while to get back to where you should be.

    13. Always take before pic's. It not only gives you something to compare your transformation to, they can serve as a motivation to NEVER go back to the way you were. If you do, for whatever reason, crank it back down and get with the program again - you will have already done it so you will know what you have to do. And take pic's again. Recent advise was given that you should never trust a mirror - how true that is. I looked in a mirror for over twenty years and told myself as I sucked in my gut that it wasn't so bad. Even with my wife asking me to lose weight, being immobile and lethargic, it didn't look so bad in the mirror or on the scale.

    14. If you choose not to do #12, and think that adding t will work miracles just by injecting or rubbing it on and that's it - you will probably be very disappointed in the results. You will probably gain BF, feel the same or worse, and your treatment will most likely fail in the end.

    That's it for now. There is a million other things. Feel free to post your thoughts and advise.

  2. #2
    D7M's Avatar
    D7M
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    Nice post!

  3. #3
    Dont wanna be old's Avatar
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    Good post !

    Never new about vitamin D until last blood work I was recommended 2000 UI / day .
    From my understanding it plays a big part in out immune system . I thought I got enough sun and vitamin D milk .

  4. #4
    flatscat's Avatar
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    http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/newsl...2007-mar.shtml

    Check this article out on Vit D - some other bs in there, but a good one overall.

  5. #5
    subnet's Avatar
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    awesome post flats

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    Nice post, although the Vitamin D thing is new to me. Do you have any references to info about it's as relation to LowT and HRT?

  7. #7
    flatscat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forrest_and_trees View Post
    Nice post, although the Vitamin D thing is new to me. Do you have any references to info about it's as relation to LowT and HRT?
    No, just think most men these days are deficient regardless of lowT and Hrt. But it should be included in BW labs and your supplements if you are low.

  8. #8
    Vettester is offline Banned
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    Excellent post!! Thanks for putting it together.

  9. #9
    SlimmerMe's Avatar
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    Great post---and INSPIRING to stay the course!

  10. #10
    olderfella is offline Associate Member
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    Well written nice post

  11. #11
    flatscat's Avatar
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    Thanks Slimmer.

    Welcome to the board older.

  12. #12
    flatscat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vetteman08 View Post
    Excellent post!! Thanks for putting it together.
    Thanks Vette,

    Know you can add a ton of your own here.

  13. #13
    flatscat's Avatar
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    This thread belongs to all of us, not just me my good fellas. Chime in with your own random thoughts, ideas and experiences.

  14. #14
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    Nice post, Flat.

    I'd also add:

    - Take charge of your medical plan. Get informed, educate yourself about HRT, and step into the pilot's seat of your treatment program. Too many docs are novices acting like experts when it comes to HRT protocols and it is your responsibility to self advocate for treatment you believe is necessary and worthwhile, and against ineffective protocols that are based on old research or pure conjecture. The docs are your advisors, but you are in charge.

  15. #15
    flatscat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epic Ed View Post
    Nice post, Flat.

    I'd also add:

    - Take charge of your medical plan. Get informed, educate yourself about HRT, and step into the pilot's seat of your treatment program. Too many docs are novices acting like experts when it comes to HRT protocols and it is your responsibility to self advocate for treatment you believe is necessary and worthwhile, and against ineffective protocols that are based on old research or pure conjecture. The docs are your advisors, but you are in charge.
    nice

  16. #16
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    Nice post Epic.... But would you please change that avatar for Pete's sake? That thing disturbs me.
    Last edited by forrest_and_trees; 08-31-2010 at 07:34 PM.

  17. #17
    Vettester is offline Banned
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    The variable that really sits at the top for me is running blood work and understanding how your body is responding to HRT. Flats comment about running labs frequently when you first start out is spot-on! Awhile back, I got a PM from a member who wanted to start his TRT right out of the gate with some rather high doses. I obviously advised against it until his program gets dialed in and balanced, which is only attainable by running lab work. He told me that he can't do blood work, so that's not an option.

    IMO, not running lab work in your initial phase is like driving with a blindfold. As many of you reading this know, having your hormones depleted or out of balance can pretty much turn your life upside down. HRT/TRT gives you the opportunity, or 2nd chance if you will, to get your life back again. However, like the driving analogy, it must be given the utmost respect or it can just as easily backfire and make conditions worse than what you experienced prior to jumping on HRT. If you can't or won't do labs then you should probably give some reconsideration with your plan to start HRT to begin with. It's a lifetime commitment so it's crucial to start off on the right foot! You'll be glad you did!

  18. #18
    Epic Ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forrest_and_trees View Post
    Nice post Epic.... But would you please change that avatar for Pete's sake? That thing disturbs me.
    Yer not gonna like my next one...

  19. #19
    zaggahamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epic Ed View Post
    Yer not gonna like my next one...
    u bicth

  20. #20
    flatscat's Avatar
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    forgot zinc, I take 100mg's a day, and make sure I get at least 2mg's of copper. helps with t to e2 conversion and for me, helps with my load size

  21. #21
    Epic Ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flatscat View Post
    forgot zinc, I take 100mg's a day... helps with my load size
    Oh, really? Hmmm. I may have to buy some. There are few things more gratifying than hosing down a woman and making her fearful that she's going to drown.

  22. #22
    flatscat's Avatar
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    bumper

    read newbs

    add to it elders

  23. #23
    flatscat's Avatar
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    Read newbs

  24. #24
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    Awesome thread!

  25. #25
    flatscat's Avatar
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    Been meaning to add this for a while - and not many of us have or had this problem, but it comes across every now and then. Some of you young guys with low t symptoms need to look into this.

    Really low Cholesterol can lead to low testosterone since it is the ultimate precursor in hormone synthesis.

    This has not been mentioned much.

  26. #26
    VegasRenegade's Avatar
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    Great stuff

    The before pics are an eye opener. I see improvment week to week if I compare pics. The challenge got me doing thisl

    Vitimans and Minerials

    For sure I post everthing I eat on fit day and was surprised that I was eating clean but was very low on som V and M So starting taking a low dose Multiple.
    Vit D was one of those and Potasium as well it is still low most days. Zinc and Copper and B12 are well and goodl.


    I missed this thread spending lots more time in the gym these days than on the board

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    This is a Sticky if I ever read one! Rational, reasonable and to the point. Excellent read.

  28. #28
    flatscat's Avatar
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    I think sometimes we get lost in our quest for the sweet spot and think that we can make hrt and exact science. When you look at how our bodies produce t, there is nothing exact about it. Time of day (and I think time of year), nutrition, rest, strength training, muscle mass, body fat and on and on.

    I have become more diligent in varying my t injection days from 6 to 10. never going out of that span though. Same with Hcg and adex. Not promoting this at all for the noobs though. You have to be on for a long while before you know how the stuff you put in reacts and how your body deals with it. I think it takes the hypo male a good 5-6 months at least to get used to the new levels you obtain. With the half life of test c or e, I personally, really do not see the need to inject more than once every 6-10 days. I have seen no one on this board that has said it actually helped with e2 or acne or any other side by injecting twice a week with those hormones. Just my two cents.

    I think another definition of sweet spot can be it is when we know our bodies well enough to choose the correct protocol for all the things we are putting in it. And to vary that protocol is working for me. I don't feel best on day three or four after injection when my levels are their highest, I feel best on the first few and the last few - but still pretty damn good in the couple of days in the middle.

    But to each his own, and by all means after you really know your body, change things up a little - you might just find that sweet spot.

  29. #29
    zaggahamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flatscat View Post
    I think sometimes we get lost in our quest for the sweet spot and think that we can make hrt and exact science. When you look at how our bodies produce t, there is nothing exact about it. Time of day (and I think time of year), nutrition, rest, strength training, muscle mass, body fat and on and on.

    I have become more diligent in varying my t injection days from 6 to 10. never going out of that span though. Same with Hcg and adex. Not promoting this at all for the noobs though. You have to be on for a long while before you know how the stuff you put in reacts and how your body deals with it. I think it takes the hypo male a good 5-6 months at least to get used to the new levels you obtain. With the half life of test c or e, I personally, really do not see the need to inject more than once every 6-10 days. I have seen no one on this board that has said it actually helped with e2 or acne or any other side by injecting twice a week with those hormones. Just my two cents.

    I think another definition of sweet spot can be it is when we know our bodies well enough to choose the correct protocol for all the things we are putting in it. And to vary that protocol is working for me. I don't feel best on day three or four after injection when my levels are their highest, I feel best on the first few and the last few - but still pretty damn good in the couple of days in the middle.

    But to each his own, and by all means after you really know your body, change things up a little - you might just find that sweet spot.
    another EXCELLENT post on your thread...i too feel the exact way...and i also run my protocol this way as well...i think i made a few posts to the such from time to time...how often would you run bloodwork if it were easy enough and cost not an issue or do u think seein those numbers is less important that how we are feeling?

  30. #30
    flatscat's Avatar
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    Thanks JP, that means a lot.

    I would run every three months. Kinda like looking at the scale to me - I pretty much know if I have gained or lost a few pounds, but since I have it I look at it every day and get pissed off about every fourth or fifth day. If I ran my labs every week or month I think the same thing would happen because the numbers would NEVER be perfect enough for me. So it is better to just go off of how you feel and how you perform than the numbers on a paper even though they serve a purpose.

    Flats

  31. #31
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    In regards to #2 , remember vit d Is a vitamin a antagonist and when supplementing vitamin d3 vitamin a supplementation must also occur. One must supplement retinol and Also beta carotine. Remember some people may need up to 20,000 iu d3 daily to reach good blood levels and everyone is different. However 2,000 iu is usually too little too late and 10,000iu seems to get most people decent levels.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10573558

  32. #32
    flatscat's Avatar
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    Thanks n00bs

  33. #33
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    nice update flats and I agree totally that this is not an exact science (yet?). I've been on injections every 3.5 days for quite some time, and did so to flatten my E2 levels and help my acne. Of course, it really didn't do that (I've been trying other things lately with much more effectiveness) and may go back to the weekly injects. I think you're 'bang on' with getting to know your body and how it's reacting to the medicine we're injecting into it! When first starting, everything's so new and I think most of us think 'more is better' so we really don't get to a good equilibrium for a long time. Now that I've been on TRT 16+ months, I'm getting to learn how my body feels when the dose is too high, when my E2 is too high or low etc. Of course, it might be the fact that I'm in a new job, in a new city and state and I don't have time to dwell on making everything regarding TRT totally perfect and worrying about every level. I know I've said in the past that I've always tried to get things 'perfect' with regards to levels and dosages. I'm not so sure it's possible, rather more important to learn your body and don't overanalyze!

  34. #34
    flatscat's Avatar
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    That's awesome Sub.

  35. #35
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    very inspiring, Just have my blood work done this morning, lets see the results in 3 days. Thanks .

  36. #36
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    Looking forward to seeing your thread on it. Pretty exciting huh?

  37. #37
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    Great post.. would add that it is important to remember that we are all individuals and everyone responds differently. We have to be careful about giving/receiving advice based solely on our own experience. i.e. one person gets side effect A while another only get side effect B. Same is true for symptoms, dosages etc. It's good to share what works for you, but we all have to filter the advice based on the fact that like flatscat said it takes time to learn what works for each individual.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by arizona32 View Post
    Great post.. would add that it is important to remember that we are all individuals and everyone responds differently. We have to be careful about giving/receiving advice based solely on our own experience. i.e. one person gets side effect A while another only get side effect B. Same is true for symptoms, dosages etc. It's good to share what works for you, but we all have to filter the advice based on the fact that like flatscat said it takes time to learn what works for each individual.
    agree..i try to stress this...its a great forum and a lot of the members care a great deal about each other and our ongoing therapies, etc.

  39. #39
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    FLATS , really nice post . The biggest mistake Ive made was not taking a before pic . 2 years ago my body was a mess ...took to the gym , work out hard , eat best i can ...funny thing is , im only 9lbs lighter but had to buy new clothes...twice . reading these boards has been a real eyes opener for me . You guys really are very nice and helpful. adding hrt to my life style i hope will be my cherry on top ! ....thx bro

  40. #40
    flatscat's Avatar
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    Take a pic NOW, so two years from NOW when you are really ripped and racing to the beach, you won't say "man I wish I had taken a pic two years ago".

    Thanks for your words - lot's of really good guys here, and most are striving for the same thing - that's what makes this forum so special, and informative.

    Flats

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