TRT treatment is failing..

**TrennK** · 09-10-2010, 08:51 AM

So I posted a while ago that my Doc has taken me off the Cyp 200mg/wk and placed me on Novarell starting at 1000ui week. well it 3 mnths later and my dose is 5000ui week, pritty much 1000ui everyday. T levels are 350ish. when i was on 4000ui T lvls were 330ish. Had my boys checked, he says there fine. Id took 200mg/week Cyp, and Adex 1mg ED, and my T lvls were 1100. So what gives with the Novarell? He said maybe thats all the test my nuts can make? Am I missing something here?

* what if I had him put me on HGH, would that help? (not even shure if he would, but id make a great argument for it)

Tnx Trenn.

**pittbulldad** · 09-10-2010, 09:19 AM

Novarell is HCG it generally is used to keep your testicular function up while taking things such as Test. I don't think taking it while not taking anything thats suppressing it is going to do much.

I will tell you that taking that high of a dosage can in the long term damage your testicles.

HGH won't help your test levels

**TrennK** · 09-10-2010, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by pittbulldad

Novarell is HCG it generally is used to keep your testicular function up while taking things such as Test. I don't think taking it while not taking anything thats suppressing it is going to do much.

I will tell you that taking that high of a dosage can in the long term damage your testicles.

HGH won't help your test levels

The reason he switched me to the HCg was because my nutz shrank to the size of a pea, and I want to have more children in the future. So i was freaking out about the boys. Since ive been on Just the HCG, nutz size hasnt changed. my concern was were they damged, or even shut down. He said they werent. My T lvls are under 200 when off TRT, i was off TRT for almost 2yrs, and my T was 125. and I felt like utter shit, bad muscle cramps, joint pain, injuries dont heal. Thats why I was asking if asking Doc to put me on HGH might help overall?

So what are my options at this point?

**pittbulldad** · 09-10-2010, 09:43 AM

you should still be on Test.. thats the only thing that's going to bring your test levels up..

what your should be doing is taking test 1xweek, hcg 250iu 2xweek.. test to keep your levels up and hcg at that dosage will keep your testicles working...

oncie again HGH won't help

**EZ E** · 09-10-2010, 10:26 AM

At this point I think you should stop the HCG and do Clomid/Nolvadex to get your pituitary working again. High dosages of HCG for too long can cause more harm than good. After that get all your levels tested again (test, LH, FSH, E2) and also get a sperm count done. If your levels have recovered to what they were (remember they will probably be low-you were on TRT for a reason) and you have an acceptable sperm count then you should be able to go back on TRT with HCG 2-3x per week at 600iu-750iu per week to keep the boys functioning.

**Vettester** · 09-10-2010, 10:28 AM

I'm worried that you may have desensitized your leydigs with taking too much of that for too long. If that's the case the party is over! As PBD stated, HCG should be administered in the smaller, frequent doses if it is going to taken for a continuous therapy. Those 'blast' doses should only go for a few weeks at most. I have no idea why your doctor would pull you from the "T" and go this route. He could have just lowered your "T" dosage and gone light with the HCG, and you would have probably been on top of the world.

Also agree with PBD ... HGH won't resolve any testosterone issues.

**Vettester** · 09-10-2010, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by EZ E

At this point I think you should stop the HCG and do Clomid/Nolvadex to get your pituitary working again. High dosages of HCG for too long can cause more harm than good. After that get all your levels tested again (test, LH, FSH, E2) and also get a sperm count done. If your levels have recovered to what they were (remember they will probably be low-you were on TRT for a reason) and you have an acceptable sperm count then you should be able to go back on TRT with HCG 2-3x per week at 600iu-750iu per week to keep the boys functioning.

I don't know, EZ. His testes aren't responding the LH signal with HCG . If they won't respond with HCG then I don't know what good the LH signal from the pituitary is going to do. If desensitization has occurred then it's basically same thing as having primary failure.

**zaggahamma** · 09-10-2010, 10:40 AM

malpractice?

**crg** · 09-10-2010, 10:47 AM

tell the doc you want a sonogram of your boys, make sure they are getting enough blood flow, no tumors, etc. if you dont respond to hcg maybe there is some physical damage that can be detected

**rebelstate** · 09-10-2010, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by TrennK

The reason he switched me to the HCg was because my nutz shrank to the size of a pea, and I want to have more children in the future. So i was freaking out about the boys. Since ive been on Just the HCG, nutz size hasnt changed. my concern was were they damged, or even shut down. He said they werent. My T lvls are under 200 when off TRT, i was off TRT for almost 2yrs, and my T was 125. and I felt like utter shit, bad muscle cramps, joint pain, injuries dont heal. Thats why I was asking if asking Doc to put me on HGH might help overall?

So what are my options at this point?

asked doc 2-days ago about my nuts cause i thought they shrank too,he explained to me that test tones all your muscles which includes your nut shack causing it to tighten up and pull your nuts up.asked about hcg and he told me it would only cause a cosmetic affect and not make my nuts make anymore test than they did before i started taking test (241),therefore my nuts were broke then and cant be fixed and not to worry unless you like looking at them.ive been on test for 11 months and he said they were still firm and not soft so they are fine..

**TrennK** · 09-10-2010, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by EZ E

At this point I think you should stop the HCG and do Clomid/Nolvadex to get your pituitary working again. High dosages of HCG for too long can cause more harm than good. After that get all your levels tested again (test, LH, FSH, E2) and also get a sperm count done. If your levels have recovered to what they were (remember they will probably be low-you were on TRT for a reason) and you have an acceptable sperm count then you should be able to go back on TRT with HCG 2-3x per week at 600iu-750iu per week to keep the boys functioning.

I did nova and clomid before starting the Novarell, results were the same. keep in mind I also take 1 Arimadex ED also.

So I made a Doc app for monday, what would be a ful work up to ask him to check? Normally he just checks T-lvls and Estragin, and B-12.

**Vettester** · 09-10-2010, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by TrennK

I did nova and clomid before starting the Novarell, results were the same. keep in mind I also take 1 Arimadex ED also.

So I made a Doc app for monday, what would be a ful work up to ask him to check? Normally he just checks T-lvls and Estragin, and B-12.

How much (mg) Arimidex are you taking??

**TrennK** · 09-10-2010, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by vetteman08

How much (mg) Arimidex are you taking??

1mg. ED

**pittbulldad** · 09-10-2010, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by TrennK

1mg. ED

at that level he should be getting 50% increase to his test.. if his prior levels were in the 200 range that explains the increase to 300ish...

I think you really need to talk to your doc or even get a second opinion.

**Vettester** · 09-10-2010, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by TrennK

1mg. ED

This is probably the worse protocol I have ever seen. Not throwing darts at you Trenn, but at I am tossing some big ones at the Dr. Kevorkian that is treating you. Surprised your eyes haven't gone yellow yet. Pull out while you still can!

**TrennK** · 09-10-2010, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by vetteman08

This is probably the worse protocol I have ever seen. Not throwing darts at you Trenn, but at I am tossing some big ones at the Dr. Kevorkian that is treating you. Surprised your eyes haven't gone yellow yet. Pull out while you still can!

he had been treating me for the last several years, the Novarell switch has only been the last 6mnths. My normal TRT was 200mg/wk of Cyp & 1mg Adex ED, and id been on it for several years.

I asked about the HCG dose few mnths back, because when i was on 1000ui a week I had no sides, heck even 2000ui a week still no sides other then the next day after the shot, I got really tired. But once i went from 2000ui to 3000ui I noticed stuff. Then once I hit 4000ui, sides got bad. Migranes, joints ache, Muscles ache hair loss. I told him about the sides, he said they arent normal side for HCG, so he bumped it to 5000ui week. Now I feel like I got run over by a truck everyday, So tierd, i got to drag my arse out of bed, and the headaches are so bad, i FEEL LIKE my heads gunna explode.

-I know this sounds like he doesnt know what hes doing, but he is 1 of the TOP Endos in my state, he really does know his stuff, I think were just missing something here. Thats why I ask here ,

**TrennK** · 09-10-2010, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by pittbulldad

at that level he should be getting 50% increase to his test.. if his prior levels were in the 200 range that explains the increase to 300ish...

I think you really need to talk to your doc or even get a second opinion.

Yep, i deff think the increase in T-lvls is from the Adex.

**TrennK** · 09-10-2010, 02:29 PM

Is it possible the Novarell isnt doing a damm thing?

**Vettester** · 09-10-2010, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by TrennK

Is it possible the Novarell isnt doing a damm thing?

Ya think?

**flatscat** · 09-11-2010, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by rebelstate

asked doc 2-days ago about my nuts cause i thought they shrank too,he explained to me that test tones all your muscles which includes your nut shack causing it to tighten up and pull your nuts up.asked about hcg and he told me it would only cause a cosmetic affect and not make my nuts make anymore test than they did before i started taking test (241),therefore my nuts were broke then and cant be fixed and not to worry unless you like looking at them.ive been on test for 11 months and he said they were still firm and not soft so they are fine..

This is a joke right?