First time on TRT. Lots of Question?

**biggymrat** · 04-15-2011, 08:20 AM

Today is my first day on TRT. My doctor is giving me test cream at 100mg daily. I asked if I should be worried about estrogen levels and she said no. I don't get my blood tested again for 3 months. That seems like a long time. I'm worried about estrogen becoming a problem and not knowing about it.

Am I too paranoid?

Also, my doc made it sound like I would never be cycling off of testosterone . Is that normal for TRT or should I be cycling with HCG ?

**NOSUPERMODEL** · 04-15-2011, 08:34 AM

I am also new to this. I am currently on Test Cyp 200 mg once a week and Tamoxifen to help prevent the estrogen from rising. I would think you would want something to treat the estrogen. I would wait to see what some of the more experienced guys tell you, but I am sure they will tell you need to watch the estrogen.

**GotNoBlueMilk** · 04-15-2011, 08:43 AM

Tamoxifen is a SERM, not an AI. It will not lower estrogen levels.

**sirupate** · 04-15-2011, 09:35 AM

You'll know if the E2 levels get too high, I think. It may not be a problem depending on how much test. is really getting into your bloodstream from the cream. I think I was retested after about 6 weeks when first on TRT. Not sure I would worry about an AI until you really know if you need it.

**biggymrat** · 04-15-2011, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by sirupate

You'll know if the E2 levels get too high, I think.

I guess I'll know if my nipples get sore, right?

**GotNoBlueMilk** · 04-15-2011, 10:00 AM

Yes, sore nipples is bad and comes from high E2. If you get them, get strong AI right away. You can even buy some from our sponsor to keep in hand just in case.

**biggymrat** · 04-15-2011, 11:16 AM

From what I gather I shouldn't worry about having too much estrogen unless I have symptoms. However, I will make sure that my doctor test for estrogen levels next time I have lab work.

Thanks for the advice.

What about my question on cycling? Is it necessary with TRT?

**sirupate** · 04-15-2011, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by biggymrat

From what I gather I shouldn't worry about having too much estrogen unless I have symptoms. However, I will make sure that my doctor test for estrogen levels next time I have lab work.

Thanks for the advice.

What about my question on cycling? Is it necessary with TRT?

In most cases, TRT is for life. Some guys who need TRT also cycle, but usually for training/bodybuilding reasons. Normal TRT doesn't cycle on and off. The objective is to maintain a high normal level of free testosterone .

**Ratt** · 04-15-2011, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by biggymrat

Today is my first day on TRT. My doctor is giving me test cream at 100mg daily. I asked if I should be worried about estrogen levels and she said no. I don't get my blood tested again for 3 months. That seems like a long time. I'm worried about estrogen becoming a problem and not knowing about it.

Am I too paranoid?

Also, my doc made it sound like I would never be cycling off of testosterone. Is that normal for TRT or should I be cycling with HCG?

What are your stats? Height, weight body fat and if you have any of your results the guys here should provide you with sound advise.
Just watch out for symptoms associated with elevated E2 levels.
Also as mentioned by others, if you are on TRT you don't cycle on/off like someone who is blasting. Your body doesn't produce enough T naturally and must get it through an external method. Unless they find out a reason why and can correct it, you will need to continue indefinitly.
HCG will help prevent your boys from shrinking, but my experience is that the higher your T levels are, the smaller your nut will be.
When I started with my injections I had some nipple sensitivity but it only last for a couple of days after each shot. The doc never put me on an AI and now that my levels are stablized there is no need to take any.
Good luck and make sure you document any changes so you can better explain to your doc what is happening.

**Whitecollar10** · 04-15-2011, 01:08 PM

To add on... My understanding is that the absorption rate of the topical T is roughly 5%. Thus, for 100mg per day, you get 5 in your system. So your weekly input would be 35mg per week. To compare to the 200mg of Test-c weekly, I understand that the ester takes up 30%, so when your body separates the T out, you are left with 70% Test out of the 200mg of Test-c. Or in this case, 140 mg of T.

Some people report feeling much improved at the 100mg cream/day. For others that is just enough to shut them down completely. Blood tests and your own feelings will tell.

**biggymrat** · 04-15-2011, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by Ratt

What are your stats? Height, weight body fat and if you have any of your results the guys here should provide you with sound advise.

Height: 5' 7"
Weight: 165
BF: 16-17%

About 2 months ago I was 150lbs and 11% but it is so hard for me to maintain. Hopefully, being on TRT will help me be more disciplined.

**Ratt** · 04-15-2011, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by biggymrat

Height: 5' 7"
Weight: 165
BF: 16-17%

About 2 months ago I was 150lbs and 11% but it is so hard for me to maintain. Hopefully, being on TRT will help me be more disciplined.

Your stats are much like mine. I think that if your T levels improve with the cream you will find that after a month or so your BF will drop and you will feel much better. If the cream doesn't work you may want to seek IM injections.
When I started I was 158 with a small pot belly forming. After month I gained 5 lbs but my body was changing and my stomach fat was slowly fading away. Now I sit at 160ish with body fat around 10%. Good luck!
Like I mentioned, I you are experience any of the gyno symptoms tell your doctor.

**Ratt** · 04-15-2011, 04:33 PM

What were the results of your blood work. (free, total T, E2 etc....)

**zaggahamma** · 04-15-2011, 04:43 PM

some doctors just dont get the estrogen issue(nice way to say dumbasses)....3 months IS a bit long to wait after first starting....you may want to ask for bloodwork sooner for piece of mind and to see where your levels are...3 months isnt going to do much harm but it would be more professional to do first test after 2weeks to a month, imo..

hcg has its added benefits that you should check into

welcome, btw..

how old are u bro

**biggymrat** · 04-15-2011, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by Ratt

What were the results of your blood work. (free, total T, E2 etc....)

Total T: 212
Free T: 58.2
Free T %: 2.7
E2: Not tested

**biggymrat** · 04-15-2011, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

how old are u bro

32 years old

**Forthelooks** · 04-16-2011, 11:22 AM

Do your test with an AI. If you get itchy or sore nipples, go running to your doctor. Arimidex would be better suited than clomid while on IMO.

**Shol'va** · 04-16-2011, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by biggymrat

Today is my first day on TRT. My doctor is giving me test cream at 100mg daily. I asked if I should be worried about estrogen levels and she said no. I don't get my blood tested again for 3 months. That seems like a long time. I'm worried about estrogen becoming a problem and not knowing about it.

Am I too paranoid?

Also, my doc made it sound like I would never be cycling off of testosterone. Is that normal for TRT or should I be cycling with HCG?

More than likely estrogen will never be a problem on androgel or testim creams. Just not enough absorbsion. Also there are several men who just dont get any improvement whatsoever on it. There is an absorbsion issue with their skin and the creams and gels wont penetrate so your test levels never go up. Not all men have this issue but several do and are switched to injections. Your test results will bear out whether you are one of those that dont absorb it. And if you ever want to go the injection route, ask some here for advice on what to tell the ole doc to get them to switch you over. There are several negatives to those gel and creams, including the transferrance issues to your wife and kids or grandkids causing premature puberty from rubbing against your body not to mention the deepening of your wifes voice and facial hair growth. Nice huh?

**steroid.com 1** · 04-16-2011, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by Shol'va

More than likely estrogen will never be a problem on androgel or testim creams. Just not enough absorbsion. Also there are several men who just dont get any improvement whatsoever on it. There is an absorbsion issue with their skin and the creams and gels wont penetrate so your test levels never go up. Not all men have this issue but several do and are switched to injections. Your test results will bear out whether you are one of those that dont absorb it. And if you ever want to go the injection route, ask some here for advice on what to tell the ole doc to get them to switch you over. There are several negatives to those gel and creams, including the transferrance issues to your wife and kids or grandkids causing premature puberty from rubbing against your body not to mention the deepening of your wifes voice and facial hair growth. Nice huh?

Excellent response. I see the OP put up some BW numbers but no ranges so it's hard to tell if the 100 mg of the gel will do anything for him and with an absorption rate of maybe 10% it's really putting a band aid on a tumor if he's clinically low.

More importantly, the OP is asking questions his MD should have covered with him when he started.

**johnwynnejr** · 04-16-2011, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by biggymrat

Today is my first day on TRT. My doctor is giving me test cream at 100mg daily.

Switch to injectable test. Get over your fear of needles. You'll get bigger muscles, but also more fat (I'm having a little trouble with bloat. I am going to up my Nolva intake and see what happens. I am also going to try a t3/t4 combo rather than straight t4 also.

Originally Posted by biggymrat

I'm worried about estrogen becoming a problem and not knowing about it.

Get a script for Nolva from your doctor.

Originally Posted by biggymrat

Also, my doc made it sound like I would never be cycling off of testosterone.

You're on the stuff for life. Bright side is that an injectable test quite possibly is going to be available that only has to be injected once every 3 months (Guys into TRT will probably do once a month though).

**biggymrat** · 04-19-2011, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by gdevine

I see the OP put up some BW numbers but no ranges so it's hard to tell if the 100 mg of the gel will do anything for him and with an absorption rate of maybe 10% it's really putting a band aid on a tumor if he's clinically low.

Here are the BW ranges:
Total T: 212 (280-1100)ng/dl
Free T: 58.2 (47-244) pg/ml
Free T % 2.7 (1.6-2.9)
T Bioavailable: 158.7 (131-682) ng/dl

**zaggahamma** · 04-19-2011, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by biggymrat

Here are the BW ranges:
Total T: 212 (280-1100)ng/dl
Free T: 58.2 (47-244) pg/ml
Free T % 2.7 (1.6-2.9)
T Bioavailable: 158.7 (131-682) ng/dl

how long you been smearin the stuff on bro....feel any different?

you will check your estro at one point....whether sooner or later...very few ppl i've seen post here dont...and youre worried about it anyway so its always gonna be back of your mind and why wouldnt you test anyway? hopefully not cuz the fem endo said no....wuts the name of the cream youre using?

**biggymrat** · 04-20-2011, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by jpkman

how long you been smearin the stuff on bro....feel any different?

Today will be day 6. I have felt good some days and really tired and crappy other days. I don't know if it's affecting me or not. Today I feel kinda depressed and angry. Could be the T I guess.

Originally Posted by jpkman

....wuts the name of the cream youre using?

It just says testosterone . I was looking for some other info, but that's it.

**steroid.com 1** · 04-20-2011, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by biggymrat

Here are the BW ranges:
Total T: 212 (280-1100)ng/dl
Free T: 58.2 (47-244) pg/ml
Free T % 2.7 (1.6-2.9)
T Bioavailable: 158.7 (131-682) ng/dl

Low across the board. With these numbers, IMO, you should be injecting...but that's just me.

**frawnz** · 04-20-2011, 03:02 PM

My endocrinologist refuses to test my E2 unless I have visible bitch tits, so I had to test it on my own, and of course, is was high. Doctor's just don't make sense some times. I'm petty sure I know more about TRT than my endocinologist at this point. I asked him today if he had heard about Nebido and he looked at me like I was speaking Latin. I pretty much just depend on myself to research things now.

**steroid.com 1** · 04-20-2011, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by frawnz

My endocrinologist refuses to test my E2 unless I have visible bitch tits, so I had to test it on my own, and of course, is was high. Doctor's just don't make sense some times. I'm petty sure I know more about TRT than my endocinologist at this point. I asked him today if he had heard about Nebido and he looked at me like I was speaking Latin. I pretty much just depend on myself to research things now.

Sorry to hear man. Did you show him your E2 labs? Was he willing to put you on an AI to lower? You konw your options, right?

Hope you get your E2 down my friend; it's converting all that good T!

G

**frawnz** · 04-20-2011, 04:13 PM

Ya, I have to go through the AA clinic to get that shit though. It's annoying, but eh.

**steroid.com 1** · 04-20-2011, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by frawnz

Ya, I have to go through the AA clinic to get that shit though. It's annoying, but eh.

Good for you; you're doing the right thing for yourself. Show this "MD" your new E2 labs after your next round...then see what he has to say!

**biggymrat** · 04-25-2011, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by Whitecollar10

Some people report feeling much improved at the 100mg cream/day. For others that is just enough to shut them down completely. Blood tests and your own feelings will tell.

What do you mean by "shut them down"? Do you mean that it is just enough for your body to stop producing it's own T, but not enough to make you feel any better? Because I have kind of felt like this may be the case for me.

**steroid.com 1** · 04-25-2011, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by biggymrat

What do you mean by "shut them down"? Do you mean that it is just enough for your body to stop producing it's own T, but not enough to make you feel any better? Because I have kind of felt like this may be the case for me.

Google is your friend;-)

FYI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypotha...y-gonadal_axis

Sufficient amounts of exogenous testosterone shuts down the natural production of testosterone through HPTA shutdown (in some men on gel isn't enough to put them in HPTA shutdown). In short, the Pituitary gland is not releasing LH anymore so the testes are no longer working...and why you need hCG !!!

g

**NOSUPERMODEL** · 04-25-2011, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by GotNoBlueMilk

Yes, sore nipples is bad and comes from high E2. If you get them, get strong AI right away. You can even buy some from our sponsor to keep in hand just in case.

Which one do you suggest? Is it an oral or injectable? I asked my doctor about Arimidex and he said that the Tamoxifen has worked fine with his patients and will not give me an AI right now. I go back to him on May 12th to get my BW done. I will definately be talking to him then.

**NOSUPERMODEL** · 04-25-2011, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by frawnz

My endocrinologist refuses to test my E2 unless I have visible bitch tits, so I had to test it on my own, and of course, is was high. Doctor's just don't make sense some times. I'm petty sure I know more about TRT than my endocinologist at this point. I asked him today if he had heard about Nebido and he looked at me like I was speaking Latin. I pretty much just depend on myself to research things now.

I am beginning to believe this after reading more and more on this forum.