Finally shutdown?

I've been on Androgel 5gms/daily for just under 4 months. LH/FSH were in the lower rangers to start.

They were unchanged as of 6 weeks into TRT, indicating that I wasn't shutdown.

However, lately I've been having a general "meh" feeling about life. Passing up social events/situations, feeling bad about grades, just running through the motions in AND out of the gym.

Is it possible that after 4 months of TRT, I'm finally shutdown? I know AndroGel is pretty "weak," but is 4 months typical/within the realm of possibilities?

Bloodwork in 3 weeks.
Dr. visit in 4 weeks.

anyone on anyform of test should shut down...i dont understand...arent we running on the test we inject, smear on, put patches on the huevs, etc. etc? isnt this what i signed up for?

are u saying you were fine for 4 months and now not? this is a common complaint i hear from people that were on gel...they say it just quits working or they feel fine then worse...but we are expected to be shutdown naturally and running on the exogeneous product

my .o2

My question was: Is this what feeling shutdown is like? 5gms of 1% gel is pitifully small, and placed me at 500 (300-900ish range) with my natty production still going.

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Originally Posted by funkymonk

My question was: Is this what feeling shutdown is like? 5gms of 1% gel is pitifully small, and placed me at 500 (300-900ish range) with my natty production still going.

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how did u feel before the gel? you must have felt like shit or why else start trt?

and i dont understand the bold? are you thinking that at 500 test level with lh and/or fsh still showing signs of life that one should feel better than if at 500 and lh and fsh at next to nil...i guess this is what youre saying...my train of thought is that 500 aint cuttin the mustard...
bump for more o's

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Originally Posted by jpkman

how did u feel before the gel? you must have felt like shit or why else start trt?

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Worn down.
Tired.
"Meh" about life.
Snippity.
"Meh" about opposite sex.

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Originally Posted by jpkman

and i dont understand the bold? are you thinking that at 500 test level with lh and/or fsh still showing signs of life that one should feel better than if at 500 and lh and fsh at next to nil...i guess this is what youre saying...my train of thought is that 500 aint cuttin the mustard...
bump for more o's

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No no. When my levels were 500, LH and FSH were still decent (as in, NOT zero), so the 500 ng/pl was a product of my endogenous production and the gel.

If you take Test your LH and FSH values will drop like a rock. There is no way around this, and if they did not drop that means you are not supplementing with nearly enough T. Forget about low LH and low FSH. Quite frankly, if you are taking T there really is no point in even testing for those anymore. They are going to be low, so why test for them?

I have no experience with gel. If jp says your it is a common complaint for people on gel to have it stop working, I would take jp's word for it and consider an alternative such as injections. If your T is only at 500 then at the very least you really need to up the dosage.

Did you have your E2 tested? That can also contribute to feeling crappy.

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Originally Posted by GotNoBlueMilk

If you take Test your LH and FSH values will drop like a rock. There is no way around this, and if they did not drop that means you are not supplementing with nearly enough T. Forget about low LH and low FSH. Quite frankly, if you are taking T there really is no point in even testing for those anymore. They are going to be low, so why test for them?

I have no experience with gel. If jp says your it is a common complaint for people on gel to have it stop working, I would take jp's word for it and consider an alternative such as injections. If your T is only at 500 then at the very least you really need to up the dosage.

Did you have your E2 tested? That can also contribute to feeling crappy.

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Exactly. LH and FSH don't mean anything any more.

In shut down and no hCG can cause some men to feel exactly what the OP is stating. Many men who start hCG after shutdown claim to feel a much better state of being and hCH improves mental functioning among a lot of other things.

Also agree, high E2 levels can also cause the exact same symptoms as well.

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Originally Posted by gdevine

. . . high E2 levels can also cause the exact same symptoms as well.

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What I was thinking but didn't spell out in my comment above is that if you have high E2 (and the symtoms are there so it is a possible explination) that means your T is being converted to E2. That means you have lower T that you would otherwise. Bullseye was on a big old T protocol and still had rock bottom T levels. Then he found out his E2 levels were on a first name basis with the moon. That explained where his T was all going.

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Originally Posted by GotNoBlueMilk

What I was thinking but didn't spell out in my comment above is that if you have high E2 (and the symtoms are there so it is a possible explination) that means your T is being converted to E2. That means you have lower T that you would otherwise. Bullseye was on a big old T protocol and still had rock bottom T levels. Then he found out his E2 levels were on a first name basis with the moon. That explained where his T was all going.

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Totally agree.

In reality, this is a pretty classic scenario for men who don't have the proper protocol or who try to manage it themselves without the right labs and drugs...or right Physician for that matter (LOL!).

That's true gdevine....but... has ANYONE found the RIGHT physician? :) I'm still learning this stuff by using myself as a guinea pig, GPs don't have a clue nor do they give a shit about trt.......I say the only way is to educate yourself and do blood work, learn from others and go for it.

i have a question......why is it that almost everyone who uses the gel or anything besides an injection seems to end up worse than before....is this stuff such a low dose that it just makes things worse? Is this just the Pharmacuetical companies putting out a CHEAP inferior product and charging insurance companies TOP dollar for it, while the good doctor who doesn't know squat about low T prescribes it left and right because the nice pharm rep said that its the way to go? I just can't wrap my head around all the problems surrounding the gels.......or is it just me....do you guys know of a substantial amount of people who after a year on the gels are happy...or 6 months for that matter?

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Originally Posted by JD250

That's true gdevine....but... has ANYONE found the RIGHT physician? :) I'm still learning this stuff by using myself as a guinea pig, GPs don't have a clue nor do they give a shit about trt.......I say the only way is to educate yourself and do blood work, learn from others and go for it.

i have a question......why is it that almost everyone who uses the gel or anything besides an injection seems to end up worse than before....is this stuff such a low dose that it just makes things worse? Is this just the Pharmacuetical companies putting out a CHEAP inferior product and charging insurance companies TOP dollar for it, while the good doctor who doesn't know squat about low T prescribes it left and right because the nice pharm rep said that its the way to go? I just can't wrap my head around all the problems surrounding the gels.......or is it just me....do you guys know of a substantial amount of people who after a year on the gels are happy...or 6 months for that matter?

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in my 5 plus years on this site ive seen countless posts confirming what you suspect of the gel in all regards you stated and seen only a few that said the gel worked for them longterm and even then its been a few years...again, this is based on posts read here only..the gel WAS working for me but i switched as soon as i could ...prolly 4-6 months into my trt so i dont remember a reversal that many claim

Do you suppose it's just hard to get a large enough dose to keep a person in the upper range? What about AIs, JPK did you use AIs with the gel? I guess it doesn't really concern me but it sure seems like an awful lot of gel users have problems, not that we all don't need to adjust things from time to time.

I agree with the above, it is very common to feel this bleh feeling, and HCG will help this for sure. with the gel though it just becomes to hard to maintain stability IMO, thats why injects are so much better for most.

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Originally Posted by JD250

it sure seems like an awful lot of gel users have problems

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I have a theory: Gel was marketed for HRT! Injectible T has the steroid abuse stigma. It is easier for a conventional doc to jump on the gel bandwagon since that is a new product exclusively for HRT with little appeal for body builders and T abusers. Sub optimal HRT docs are much more likely to prescribe gel, so the less than optimal docs are the bulk of the ones prescribing it. If this is so, then the less than optimal docs will prescribe the too low of an amount, not watch E levels, not shoot for appropriate T levels in the 800+ range.

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Originally Posted by JD250

Do you suppose it's just hard to get a large enough dose to keep a person in the upper range? What about AIs, JPK did you use AIs with the gel? I guess it doesn't really concern me but it sure seems like an awful lot of gel users have problems, not that we all don't need to adjust things from time to time.

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yes...i aromatized on the 10g/15g of gel i was slathering on but i got on shots and arimidex around the same time so like i say i dont know if i would have continued doing well on all that gel but i doubt it...ridiculous form of therapy anyway

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Originally Posted by GotNoBlueMilk

I have a theory: Gel was marketed for HRT! Injectible T has the steroid abuse stigma. It is easier for a conventional doc to jump on the gel bandwagon since that is a new product exclusively for HRT with little appeal for body builders and T abusers. Sub optimal HRT docs are much more likely to prescribe gel, so the less than optimal docs are the bulk of the ones prescribing it. If this is so, then the less than optimal docs will prescribe the too low of an amount, not watch E levels, not shoot for appropriate T levels in the 800+ range.

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agree

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Originally Posted by jpkman

agree

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Me too.

dont mean to be rude,but its all in your head, its your state of mind about what you think hrt is going to do to you........you sought it out, now you question it? dude its not a drug to make you high, like lortabs!...it takes time to adjust to it and notice the benefits, relax!!!!!!

Got my own bloods in. I called it, I'm shutdown now.

Test is now 232
LH and FSH are now 0.
Estadiol is 22

Basically, my values are back to where they were when I started TRT, with test being about 70 ng/pl lower and LH/FSH at 0 obviously.

When I go to the doc in 4 weeks I figure he'll probably push that damn pellet or want to double me androgel dosage. No way in hell I'm going for that, I'm going to finally push for 100mg cyp/wk. After getting THESE bloods back, I was gonna move up my appt with him, but between midterms, finals, graduation, and Memorial day, 4 weeks out is LITERALLY the first day available. :(

Thankfully, I still feel pretty positive on the whole. By the end of the day, I'm TOTALLY burned out though.
I'll just be eating at maintenance for these next 4 weeks, and switching to a different lifting program that's a little less intensive than what I was doing. Hopefully I won't lose too much more on my lifts -or- too much muscle mass in these coming weeks.

IM taking 200 mg of Test Cyp every week. im 36, 200 lbs, and doc doesnt recommend HCG. Based on all these posts, it seems like I should be taking HCG. Any suggestions?

I dont plan on having kids right now, but maybe one day !

HCG works!!

Funkymonk......damn bro 4 weeks!!!! If you can afford it I would look at an AA clinic.


I sent you a PM

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Originally Posted by gdevine

Many men who start hCG after shutdown claim to feel a much better state of being and hCH improves mental functioning among a lot of other things.

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I have a bad pituitary and brain fog, my LH was low also. Is it possible HCG would have a different effect on me than supplemental testosterone? Like clearing up my brain fog?