Bloodwork results....After 6 weeks on TRT

Okay, well I got my blood test back and I will have to say I am not impressed as of yet.

Here is what I was taking
200mg Test Cyp once a week
10mg Tamoxifen for 1st two weeks and then one 10mg pill on shot day

Results:

Testosterone 693 Range 241-827
Estradiol 60 Range 13-54
PSA .5 Range .8<

That estrogen being that high is the exact reason why I asked him about Arimidex.

I will go back in 6 weeks to redo bloodwork. Here is what i will be doing now.

Test Cyp 1.25 ml once a week
Tamoxifen 10mg on shot day
Arimidex .50mg EOD
HCG 1/2ml twice a week under tongue.

With my estrogen being that high, is that why I am not really seeing any results as of yet? How long will it take for the Arimidex to start lowering the estrogen levels? Is .25mg enough or should I bump it to .50mg EOD He prescribed 1mg twice a week, but I figure it would be better to break up the dosages to EOD versus just twice a week.

Opinions and suggestions are always welcomed.

No Free Test scores? Yeah, it will be good to get that E under control.

I don't know anyone taking oral HCG. Usually the oral stuff is not real, it is a herbal BS replacement. Did you get a scrip for it, and if so, are you sure you are taking it correctly? I am not saying you are doing anything wrong, I want to learn as I have never heard of this.

yes. estrogen is ALMOST ALWAYS the negative culprit. ditch the tamoxifen, it lowers Igf-1 and other things, its terrible choice for E control IMO. you could try .25mg EOD first cause your E is not too out of control. I think adex will reach stable serum levels in about 14 days.

when did you do your test in relation to your most recent inject???? be careful adding HCG at this moment, it could further complicate the E problem your having, might want to get E in control, then add HCG.

I also agree about oral HCG, ditch it and get the real thing. HCG will help your libido as well.

Johnny Vegas....I did get a prescription for the HCG and they mixed it at a compounding pharmacy. I take 1/2mL under the tongue twice a week. And I have know idea why he did not test for Free Test. I definately will get him to test that next time.

The Det Oak....I had a shot on Tuesday night and was tested the following Thursday(so 9 days, or 8 days and about 8 hours I guess) So I should just drop the Tamoxifen all together and just take the Arimidex? He said something I believe that the Tamoxifen on shot day will help with losing some of the test?

I guess I could ask him about the injectable HCG (Although I am not real keen on the idea of pinning another couple times a week) But you are saying do not add the HCG at this time? I haven't had any shrinkage so thats why I haven't used as of yet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by THE-DET-OAK

yes. estrogen is ALMOST ALWAYS the negative culprit. ditch the tamoxifen, it lowers Igf-1 and other things, its terrible choice for E control IMO. you could try .25mg EOD first cause your E is not too out of control. I think adex will reach stable serum levels in about 14 days.

when did you do your test in relation to your most recent inject???? be careful adding HCG at this moment, it could further complicate the E problem your having, might want to get E in control, then add HCG.

I also agree about oral HCG, ditch it and get the real thing. HCG will help your libido as well.

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^^carve in stone^^

I will hold off on the HCG for now. I guess it won't hurt, but if I start noticing some shrinkage I am definately going to use it.

Just a question but about how long does it take to get your levels where they need to be? How much trial and error did it take?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NOSUPERMODEL

I will hold off on the HCG for now. I guess it won't hurt, but if I start noticing some shrinkage I am definately going to use it. perfect plan, imo

Just a question but about how long does it take to get your levels where they need to be? How much trial and error did it take?

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if it is indeed your slightly elevated estro, the AI should go to work quick and your e2 will be down in a week...since a lot of people make new threads instead of updating their first that describes symptoms and shows initial bloodwork it makes it harder for me to give best advice...just by assuming you were real low T and doing 200mg shots of test ew I am a bit surprised you arent seeing ANY difference at all.....

Here is where I was at when I first started TRT. These are the results before any test at all.

RESULTS RANGE
Testosterone, Total, LC/MS/MS 419 250-1100ng/dL
Testosterone, Free 44.9 46.0-224.5pg/mL
Testosterone, Bioavailable 108.0 110.0-575.0ng/dL
SHBG 40 8-48nmo/L
Albumin, Serum 5.3 3.6-5.1pg/dL----Not sure about this one, copy is not very dark
Estradiol 33 13-54 pg/mL
PSA, Total .8 < or = 4.0 ng/mL

So yes the test scores have gone up some. But the estrogen has really gone up. I am not saying that I have not notice ANY change at all. I have noticed I have put on some muscle mass. I feel like I recover a little bit easier. I can definately workout longer and with more intensity.

I guess what I was trying to ask is how long does it take to get to that "sweet" spot everybody talks about. Or maybe I am just expecting that I am going to feel like Superman from this stuff and that really is not the case. But overall I do feel somewhat better. Maybe my expectations are a little to high.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NOSUPERMODEL

Here is where I was at when I first started TRT. These are the results before any test at all.

RESULTS RANGE
Testosterone, Total, LC/MS/MS 419 250-1100ng/dL
Testosterone, Free 44.9 46.0-224.5pg/mL
Testosterone, Bioavailable 108.0 110.0-575.0ng/dL
SHBG 40 8-48nmo/L
Albumin, Serum 5.3 3.6-5.1pg/dL----Not sure about this one, copy is not very dark
Estradiol 33 13-54 pg/mL
PSA, Total .8 < or = 4.0 ng/mL

So yes the test scores have gone up some. But the estrogen has really gone up. I am not saying that I have not notice ANY change at all. I have noticed I have put on some muscle mass. I feel like I recover a little bit easier. I can definately workout longer and with more intensity.

I guess what I was trying to ask is how long does it take to get to that "sweet" spot everybody talks about. Or maybe I am just expecting that I am going to feel like Superman from this stuff and that really is not the case. But overall I do feel somewhat better. Maybe my expectations are a little to high.

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thanks for the reminder info..

yes i remember you had/have a decent amount of test being made natty but alot of it bound up by shgb...your last sentence(s) i think answer your question(s)...the fact that you are seing gains where you werent before should be something to be thankful for and this sweet spot or the fact that some like myself called trt the fountain of youth or they feel like superman is because they might have been running on test levels of 200 or even lower..can you imagine going from 200 to 1,000????? their going to notice that more than your 400 to 600...not saying you have to stay at 600 either, just saying that maybe a little patience and take notice of what you've been getting from your trt and keep observing...only you know if you should/can feel better than currently....you're doing the right thing and taking the perfect steps to see if you can tweak it and get a little closer to that sweet spot by adding in the AI, then possibly the hcg soon, you just started bro...my guess is your shgb is still high as well since 600 something isnt where i would guess 200mg of test ew would place you...so some is converting into e2 and some still bound...there are a couple of compounds that are said to lower your shgb....

bump for more opinions

Can you tell me what compounds to use to lower it? Or can you PM me if you can't list them on the open board.

Also, so there is a lot more to look at other than just Testosterone and Estrogen levels I am finding out.

Is there somewhere on here that will give you an idea of the ratios you are supposed to have on all the different items? For example: What is the ratio supposed to be for testosterone to estrogen? What is a good level for SHBG?

What about Albumin, Serum. Looks to me like that is high also. What is that?

There is so much to learn about blood work. Did you guys actually ask your doctor what levels were supposed to be, or did you learn it all by research and being on this forum?

My doctor didn't even test SGBG this time. All he tested was testosterone, estrogen and PSA.

I am definately getting a complete blood work panel done next time, and then have a sit down and get it all explained to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by THE-DET-OAK

yes. estrogen is ALMOST ALWAYS the negative culprit. ditch the tamoxifen, it lowers Igf-1 and other things, its terrible choice for E control IMO. you could try .25mg EOD first cause your E is not too out of control. I think adex will reach stable serum levels in about 14 days.

when did you do your test in relation to your most recent inject???? be careful adding HCG at this moment, it could further complicate the E problem your having, might want to get E in control, then add HCG.

I also agree about oral HCG, ditch it and get the real thing. HCG will help your libido as well.

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excellent advice!

NOSUPERMODEL, armidex should take effect within a day or two! my e2 was at 102 and one week later taking Arimidex at .5 mgs ed it went down to 18, so it works fast.

bump for shgb lowerage for mr nosupermodel

proviron...stinging nettles?...????

SHBG is prolly high do to infrequent injects, aromasin is best AI at lowering SHBG. I wouldnt throw proviron in just yet cause it will make his thing hard, but its kind of a false positive. meaning it masks libido issues, would rather get to the bottom of true issue first. High estrogen can also raise SHBG.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by THE-DET-OAK

SHBG is prolly high do to infrequent injects, aromasin is best AI at lowering SHBG. I wouldnt throw proviron in just yet cause it will make his thing hard, but its kind of a false positive. meaning it masks libido issues, would rather get to the bottom of true issue first. High estrogen can also raise SHBG.

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I don't have any issues. I want it everyday. No problems performing. Now I am not "ready" to go round two immediately after round one but I have not had any problems yet. But it seems like your telling me that if I lower my SHBG I will even be for of a hornball? My wife would tell you to tell me how to fix it NOW!!! LOL!!!

I did some research on Proviron. Seems like something that would help me. But I honestly think I am going to stick to my protocol right now (without the HCG) and see what the bloodwork says in about 6 weeks. Now of course I do run the risk of losing 6 weeks of progress, but I can't keep just throwing stuff into the mix without first learning what is working and what is not. Isn't that correct? Or should I just do everything right now and see what happens in 6 weeks?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NOSUPERMODEL

I don't have any issues. I want it everyday. No problems performing. Now I am not "ready" to go round two immediately after round one but I have not had any problems yet. But it seems like your telling me that if I lower my SHBG I will even be for of a hornball? My wife would tell you to tell me how to fix it NOW!!! LOL!!!

I did some research on Proviron. Seems like something that would help me. But I honestly think I am going to stick to my protocol right now (without the HCG) and see what the bloodwork says in about 6 weeks. Now of course I do run the risk of losing 6 weeks of progress, but I can't keep just throwing stuff into the mix without first learning what is working and what is not. Isn't that correct? Or should I just do everything right now and see what happens in 6 weeks?

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no....be patient like you been...correct the e2 (interesting about the aromasin..i may try that instead of arimidex/anastrazole) first...slow and steady wins the race bro

^^^^^ agree. by piecing this together 1 at a time, you will be able to come up with the perfect protocol for you, then once you got that, you can play with all kinds of things:hitit:

That's what I think I am going to. Let's get the estrogen fixed then work on the SHBG. Who knows maybe it will change to next blood work.

exactly, fixing E may just fix SHBG

Quote:

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Originally Posted by THE-DET-OAK

exactly, fixing E may just fix SHBG

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To the OP. Sorry for reviving an old thread... I can;t PM so I was hoping you might PM me or reply here. I was just wanting to follow up on your experience with TRT. I have just started on 200mg Test E. It seems most logs I have found are in the 100mg range and having someone on a similar regimen would be helpful to have some more data for. Not on any anti-E and haven;t had my first follow up test, but original tests were in the 150 range ng/ml. (tt)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jeffh3c

To the OP. Sorry for reviving an old thread... I can;t PM so I was hoping you might PM me or reply here. I was just wanting to follow up on your experience with TRT. I have just started on 200mg Test E. It seems most logs I have found are in the 100mg range and having someone on a similar regimen would be helpful to have some more data for. Not on any anti-E and haven;t had my first follow up test, but original tests were in the 150 range ng/ml. (tt)

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I have really been trying to dial in my estrogen since the beginning. Your estrogen will follow the testosterone, so it will go up. You want to keep it fairly low, but not to low. I noticed quite a bit of strength increase when I first started so be careful with jumping the weights to quickly. I have another thread that I have posted more blood work on and my protocols for that blood work. You can see how much things change by tweaking stuff. You definately need to get an AI though.