I screwed up

[JD250]

Here's the story....A couple months ago I got tired of the sides from Anastrozol so I decreased my dosage drastically, I started taking only .25 gram twice a week and felt decent without the sides so I stopped taking it all together for about a month, well about 2 to 3 weeks ago I realized that I was kinda moody at times and didnt have the energy I should and just wasn't quite right in some ways so I thought to myself....of course, I need to get back on the AI and see if that helps, it's probably just an estrogen issue and I'm not dropping the coin for blood work every time I feel a little off, I've just learned to slow down and pay close attention to how I feel.

So I started back on the AI at .25 gram EOD which seems to be the recommended amount for the test that I pin...blah blah blah.....anyway here I am approximately 2-2 1/2 weeks later and I feel freakin great, this stuff sort of sneaks up on me, it's not like I all of a sudden feel terrible or great, it happens slowly and then one day I realize that I feel that way. So here I feel fantastic, have tons of energy, think clearly, more focused, I feel like I did when I first started TRT........

So here's where I screwed up.....I broke the cardinal rule when trouble shooting anything....only change one thing at a time....I totally forgot about changing the AI dosage a few weeks back and exactly 5 days ago I started with my first injection of deca to help with joint pain, I pin T every 5 days and am doing the deca at the same time.....100mg deca every 5 days along with 165mg Test


Since I have no experience with deca other than my research of the sides....I was hoping for some input....is it possible that my improvement came from the deca or am I correct in thinking that it's highly probable that the improvement was from the AI adjustment which would have decreased E and at the same time increased T, I also would note that I haven't noticed any improvement in joint pain yet, but I feel GREAT otherwise.

I can't believe I forgot about the AI adjustment.....I should keep a written log and this wouldn't happen.

[zaggahamma]

you feel great so at least to me the cardinal rule only applies when things go array bringing another red bird rule

if it aint broke dont fix

get that bloodwork when you can for a little more piece of mind but based on what your saying...the AI was more of your "fix"...

also imo, i would be doing 150-200 of deca with your test dose you can even go 165 - 165 if it made you feel more comfortable

oh btw, what were the sides you WERE getting from the AI and what WERE those doses?

[NOSUPERMODEL]

I am interested also in what the sides were on the AI. I am just now starting Anastrozol, so I would like to know.

[JD250]

When I started I was told to take 1MG every day for 3 days straight after my T shot.....I had a constant lower back ache, I mean from my middle back down to my ass and it couldn't be pinpointed everything just ached, I also had gas issues, I could fart for 5 straight seconds and do that about every 10 minutes. lol at least they were dry. Anyway, I don't have any symptoms that I can identify with this dose of .25mg every other day.

JPK....how long does it take to feel any effects from the deca ? Also, I've heard conflicting reports on how long a person should run a low dose like this, some say indefinitely others say to cycle off from time to time, whatever that means.

I hope the HCG still helps with keeping the nuts alive.....I guess I'll find out on that one. Hoping to achieve a little joint relief without making my dick useless and my balls shrivel.

[THE-DET-OAK]

JP has ya covered.

[bass]

When I started I was told to take 1MG every day for 3 days straight after my T shot.....I had a constant lower back ache, I mean from my middle back down to my ass and it couldn't be pinpointed everything just ached, I also had gas issues, I could fart for 5 straight seconds and do that about every 10 minutes. lol at least they were dry. Anyway, I don't have any symptoms that I can identify with this dose of .25mg every other day.

JPK....how long does it take to feel any effects from the deca ? Also, I've heard conflicting reports on how long a person should run a low dose like this, some say indefinitely others say to cycle off from time to time, whatever that means.

I hope the HCG still helps with keeping the nuts alive.....I guess I'll find out on that one. Hoping to achieve a little joint relief without making my dick useless and my balls shrivel.

yup, those are the sides i got when i screwed with the AI dose! for me deca took affect at around 4 weeks but i was only on 50 mgs per week. as for AI adjustment, when i was on test and deca my clinic put me on 1mg per day and my e2 was at about 30, but when i came off deca they put me on 1/2 mgs five days a week. and i agree with JP regarding AI helping you reduce the sides!

[steroid.com 1]

When I started I was told to take 1MG every day for 3 days straight after my T shot.....I had a constant lower back ache, I mean from my middle back down to my ass and it couldn't be pinpointed everything just ached, I also had gas issues, I could fart for 5 straight seconds and do that about every 10 minutes. lol at least they were dry. Anyway, I don't have any symptoms that I can identify with this dose of .25mg every other day.

JPK....how long does it take to feel any effects from the deca ? Also, I've heard conflicting reports on how long a person should run a low dose like this, some say indefinitely others say to cycle off from time to time, whatever that means.

I hope the HCG still helps with keeping the nuts alive.....I guess I'll find out on that one. Hoping to achieve a little joint relief without making my dick useless and my balls shrivel.

First, I got to say this line had me on the floor pissing myself...and that's funny!

An AI in and of itself does not have sides but low or very low E2 sure as hell does! Rule of thumb, without labs, is 1 mg of AI per 100 mg of test. BW will then allow you to dial that in to the correct ratio.

AI's for men are very powerful and fooling around with them can have negative results so a word of caution as you now know. BTW I like that you are taking your AI in small doses EOD that seems to work real well for a lot of men...smooths things out and keep E2 at a pretty consistent level.

hCG will help you in many positive ways and yes they will keep your boys from looking like a 5 year old. Plus you get the added benefit of getting more natural T production as well. hCG is a good thing for most men here.

[zaggahamma]

First, I got to say this line had me on the floor pissing myself...and that's funny!

An AI in and of itself does not have sides but low or very low E2 sure as hell does! Rule of thumb, without labs, is 1 mg of AI per 100 mg of test. BW will then allow you to dial that in to the correct ratio.

AI's for men are very powerful and fooling around with them can have negative results so a word of caution as you now know. BTW I like that you are taking your AI in small doses EOD that seems to work real well for a lot of men...smooths things out and keep E2 at a pretty consistent level.

hCG will help you in many positive ways and yes they will keep your boys from looking like a 5 year old. Plus you get the added benefit of getting more natural T production as well. hCG is a good thing for most men here.

just to clarify you are probably meaning 1mg PER WEEK (AI) with 100mg of test per week..

AND i wonder what is better WITHOUT labs ...to err on the side of taking too much AI or too little...at 100mg of test imo i'd have to see symptoms of high e2 or labs confirming to take a whole mg of AI

just my .02

[zaggahamma]

When I started I was told to take 1MG every day for 3 days straight after my T shot.....I had a constant lower back ache, I mean from my middle back down to my ass and it couldn't be pinpointed everything just ached, I also had gas issues, I could fart for 5 straight seconds and do that about every 10 minutes. lol at least they were dry. Anyway, I don't have any symptoms that I can identify with this dose of .25mg every other day.

JPK....how long does it take to feel any effects from the deca ? Also, I've heard conflicting reports on how long a person should run a low dose like this, some say indefinitely others say to cycle off from time to time, whatever that means.

I hope the HCG still helps with keeping the nuts alive.....I guess I'll find out on that one. Hoping to achieve a little joint relief without making my dick useless and my balls shrivel.

i got jacked in a short time...i took my deca more in the beginning of my trt and it seemed to just take hold from week one...got stronger, etc.

i had although been losing weight all while gaining strength...seems as if i maintained or gained all muscle even though losing weight...i went from 22%bf to around 13% and gained significant strength in 6 weeks on 150-200mg of deca and i believe 300 of test...dont know about how long you can run it...i only ran it that one time....if it were me i would run it in cycles....i wouldnt see any harm in 12 week runs since you'll be running test along with always and continuous while off the deca...2 a year..

for me gas on AI off AI gas after shake, bread, milk, egg, EVERYTHING....i am a one man band...i have only internet friends

[bass]

for me gas on AI off AI gas after shake, bread, milk, egg, EVERYTHING....i am a one man band...i have only internet friends

thats hilarious! but for me once i started TRT my gas problems went away! thats one thing my wife is happy about me being on TRT!

[JD250]

JPK, are you saying that you started out trt with 200 deca and 300 test per week? What sort of shape were you in, did you work out regularly before you started this? I'm just starting to work out again in a regular way so I dont want to over do it too soon and injure myself, from what research i've done deca at 200 or lower won't produce huge results in mass gain........I'm really looking for joint relief to go with my test levels while I hit the gym and bicycle, kayak this summer, trying to loose another 15 pounds of fat and build a good base and core strength, I'll consider higher doses down the road.

What do you guys think of my doses? am I on track? 165mg test every 5 days and I think I'll bump my deca to 150 mg every 5 days also ....My script is actually 220 test every 7days and 200deca every 7 days.....I pin every 5 to avoid the 2 day drop I was feeling with the test. I like my test dosage but I'm clueless on the deca, just trying to be conservative I always think start out small and go up but I also see the value in others experience. Technically at every 5 days this dose is close to using the same amount as the script calls for, just keeps the levels at a steadier high level without the drop.

[THE-DET-OAK]

If you are trying to get collagen effects from nandrolone you must keep your T doses under 200mg a week, otherwise the decreased synthesis from the T will offset the benefits of the nandrolone.

[JD250]

At my current dose it would calculate out to roughly 230mg a week of test, is that close enough or should I knock it back a touch? Will it help to up the deca ?

[THE-DET-OAK]

prolly close enough let me go find this thread for you.......BRB

here it is, see my post on increase collagen synthesis. http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-stack-with-eq

[JD250]

Very interesting stuff OAK, I'm gonna run with this dose and see how it goes, but I saw another thread where you posted about peptides and HGH....i will do my homework on it, it sounds like maybe that would be a better long term or TRT solution. You got any more info sources, studies that you can share on the subject?


BTW when I say sources I mean sources for information not sources for product.....just wanted to clarify.

[zaggahamma]

JPK, are you saying that you started out trt with 200 deca and 300 test per week? What sort of shape were you in, did you work out regularly before you started this? I'm just starting to work out again in a regular way so I dont want to over do it too soon and injure myself, from what research i've done deca at 200 or lower won't produce huge results in mass gain........I'm really looking for joint relief to go with my test levels while I hit the gym and bicycle, kayak this summer, trying to loose another 15 pounds of fat and build a good base and core strength, I'll consider higher doses down the road.

What do you guys think of my doses? am I on track? 165mg test every 5 days and I think I'll bump my deca to 150 mg every 5 days also ....My script is actually 220 test every 7days and 200deca every 7 days.....I pin every 5 to avoid the 2 day drop I was feeling with the test. I like my test dosage but I'm clueless on the deca, just trying to be conservative I always think start out small and go up but I also see the value in others experience. Technically at every 5 days this dose is close to using the same amount as the script calls for, just keeps the levels at a steadier high level without the drop.

no...i started out on androgel 5mg packet ed....did wonders for me...i had previously lost approx 30lbs before trt approx 280 to 250lbs weightwise (guessing 29% to 25%) stuck there for 6 months with intense lifting and 30-40min cardio....found i was low t...started the gel and wellah....started losing more weight/fat gained a lil strength even on androgel...thought nice so doubled then tripled dose...more gains but bloodwork showed 78 e2 from 25 so added arimidex still doing well and shortly after got on injection (bring the vial home)...never really found the sweet spot but no complaints....started that ramped up to 400 for a little while just kind of played with it (not advising this) found clinic and ran deca at around 200 and test at 300 so kind of in the beginning but not right from the start (definitely within the first 6-10 months of my initial trt) i was pretty much where i wanted to be in less than a year maybe closer to half a year from start of trt....what can i say..it was simply test is what i needed....
originally i had insurance and i could do bloodwork but after a couple years i had to wing it and go by feel...i'm hoping this will change soon..

[THE-DET-OAK]

honetly dat b true is the guru right now on peptides. i have protocols and research from who i work for but it wouldnt be fair to me to share their protocols on open board. I already share enough of them. what i gave you is pretty much the deal on them, how to use and the effects should be just lke gh supplementation.

there ar TONS of studies on it though. the best way to find studies is to go to google, click on scholar, this is under the more tab, then search GHRH/GHRP.

you will find ample results between that and reading datbtrue's stuff.

hope this helps

[JD250]

Thanks for the answers guys, this helps a bunch, OAK....I'll google it, thanks for the input bro.

[zaggahamma]

i had relief from rotator cuff pain at 200mg deca so ......................

[THE-DET-OAK]

I hear ya JP, im not saying it wont help with higher T, but maybe it will help more with lower t, just a thought brother, i know you know your stuff!!!!

[zaggahamma]

I hear ya JP, im not saying it wont help with higher T, but maybe it will help more with lower t, just a thought brother, i know you know your stuff!!!!

all good more advice the better....makes me wanna run a nuther lil run

[zaggahamma]

I hear ya JP, im not saying it wont help with higher T, but maybe it will help more with lower t, just a thought brother, i know you know your stuff!!!!

after revisiting this thread and particular post...i actually see your point even clearer...do you recommend something like a deca 200 and test 150 protocol for joint pain relief, etc. ? or what numbers do you think?

[GotNoBlueMilk]

Is the join pain relief brought on by Deca permanent or does the pain eventually return after the deca is stopped?

JP, did your rotator cuff pain return?

[bass]

for me, the joint pain was improved by 90% and staid good so far, i only did 50 mgs deca for 5 weeks! i don't think deca did the healing, it was probably more of being bale to stretch further and get better range of motion, which helped the healing process.

[zaggahamma]

Is the join pain relief brought on by Deca permanent or does the pain eventually return after the deca is stopped?

JP, did your rotator cuff pain return?

good ?

i dont know how long it was relieved but i think for some time...i did that run 5 years ago and my shoulder only aches while lifting on shoulder lifts