If so, what's the best time?
Thanks,
F/T
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If so, what's the best time?
Thanks,
F/T
I have never seen any recommendations on t.o.d. - I do it any time never noticed any differences.
On my TRT script, my doc say to use 2 shots, 48 and 24 hours prior to test shot.
i thought he was talking about time of day
TOD is not important.
When and how much you inject is.
General consensus is up to 1000 iu/wk on 100 mg of T. I like 250 iu EOD. Keeps intra-testicle E2 in check. Remember, high amounts of hCG will cause spikes in intra-testicle E2 which an AI is very in affective in controlling. So, lower doses over time seems to work for a lot of men.
Subcutaneous injections with an insulin needle. I pinch the fat on my love handles (what's left of them LOL) and inject there.
Remember, draw and inject slowly as hCG molecules are easily damaged if drawn or injected too quickly.
I probably should have been more specific, but yes, I was referring to when to take HCG in correlation to Test. I started doing both at the same time; 100mg Test and 300iu HCG every Tues morning and Friday night. Then I bumped the HCG to 250 3x a week; ever third day. But that overlaps with my T injections every so often.
gdevine, based on what you're saying, with that much test, I should have no problem bumping the HCG to 250iu EOD?
Lots of recommendations on doing it two days before and the day before you do the T injection. This all comes from one source, who was a forerunner on using hcg (forget the doc's name).
Interestingly enough, my doc said do it at the same time I do my T injection. I do my T 2x/week. When he told me to do it the same day I brought up the convention of doing it between T injections. He gave a rather complicated explination of why doing it on the same day as the T is best when doing T 2x/week. My doc is well read on this stuff and does a great job of explaining things. Unfortunately, this explinations went in one ear and mostly out the other ear. It had to do with duration of effectiveness, blood serum levels, and time for the hcg to have a postive affect on hormone levels.
OK... so now we've got some conflicting answers here, can we get a consensus? ...Anyone? ...Anyone? :shrug:
The primary point of doing hCG in low doses (250 iu) on a EOD or E3D basis is to keep intratesticular E2 levels pretty consistent. When a man spreads out his hCG injections E2 levels in the testicles will rise and fall much like T levels when injections are greater than a week apart. The result in having fluxuating E2 levels is all bad symptoms we are well aware of; plus it converts T as well which is not what we want. I've been on 250 iu EOD protocol for over a year and I have E2 levels in the low 20's and the boys are plump and happy.
Additionally, evenly spaced injections also keeps the boys working pretty consistently...more natural and consistent T production as an added benefit:)
Remember, high doses of hCG will increase intra-testicular E2 levels and anti aroamtase inhibitor is largely ineffective in controling it in the glands.
gdevine: is this your only protocol or do you do T too? If you do T too, do you mind sharing how much?Quote:
Originally Posted by gdevine
I have been feeling that my T (2 50 mg shots a week) + HCG (2 250 IU shots a week) script is too much. In some ways I feel better than with just the T, but I really felt better when I was just doing 2 40mg shots a week of T except for the pain in my groin from the shrunken boys.
Problem with the 80 mg T a week is that my blood levels are not quite where I wanted them and my workout recovery was not quite where I wanted it. But I felt better than I do now. So I am thinking of lowering my T again, but I am also thinking maybe just a HCG protocol would do the trick. My low T was mainly due to low LH and FSH levels. My pituitary simply wasn't kicking out enough.
GNBM - My protocol for the past year is as follows:
Monday AM: 60 mg T Cyp & .5 mg of AI
Thursday PM: 60 mg of T Cyp & .5 mg of AI
250 iu of hCH EOD
My last BW (and I won't throw all the numbers here) had me at:
Total T: 1180
Free T: 2.58%
Bio Avail: 68%
E2. 22.8
My MD, who is a TRT specialist. was not concerned with the Total T being at peak. We were both very happy with the Free T and Bio Available combined with the E2 levels. He doesn't want to change a thing and neither do I.
GNBM without seeing your BW your protocol is rather conservative as it is. You need hCG to keep your testicles healthy for a ton of reasons beyond just swore and shrunken balls. If you are producing T on your own and were not clinically in the low T range (combined with low LH and FSH values) then a mono hCG therapy may just work for you. It works great for a lot of guys who can produce on thier own and want to naturally pump up thier T levels without exogenous T to optimal levels.
Remember, hCG is about as close to LH as there is so your body will react accordingly.
You will still need to keep an eye on E2 as the boys will generate more natural T both intra-testicle and out.
Thanks for the info gdevine. I haven't had bloodwork done since starting hcg, and the last bloodwork I had I was only doing 80mg T a week. I'm going to do the privatelabs thing and get some numbers to see where I am at now.
I suspect that part of my problem now is that I simply don't tolerate the AI very well. When I was doing 80 mg T a week I could get away w/o taking any, but I had borderline gyno symptoms. With 100 mg T a week + the hcg I have to take the AI. Even when I take just enough and still have boarderline gyno symptoms, I just don't feel that good. So it isn't my E2 level. I switched from Anastrozole to Letro and that helped quite a bit, but still not great.
I should mention that the hcg diminishes the sides of the AI for me. And I have noticed other benefits from it, not just growing my boys back so they don't jam up under my pubic skin and pubic bone.
GNBM- What size dose Anastrozole were you taking?
I gave up on Anastrozole and switched to Letro. Seems to have less negatives on me. I am currently doing 0.35 mg twice a week. 0.25 mg is too little with my current protocol.
I did try switching off the AI and doing Nolva; that experiment went horribly wrong. I don't think I will ever touch that stuff again.
Ha! I have looked into this as well,and consensus is not possible. Seems like everyone does something different. I inject 200mg Test twice a week, and inject 400iu the day before each Test shot. I bump it up to 500iu when I up my Test dose.Quote:
Originally Posted by forrest_and_trees