Took my first hCG shot!

[bass]

not sure what my does is in terms of IUs, but i have 5000 units in a 5 ml vial, i added 2.75 ml bact water, then draw with insulin syringe to the 25 mark for one dose, twice a week. i simply followed the clinic's instructions and forgot to ask for the details! besides getting my boys back, what else am i expecting to feel and when will i feel anything?

[rebel70]

Not good with math..I use 2ml bac and draw to 10 on the syringe for 250iu's.I usually get a sudden feeling of needing to make a run at the girl friend.It just seems to make me even more horny.

[JohnnyVegas]

I started hCG a month or so after starting TRT and didn't feel any different. I also didn't see any size difference. I assume that is because they hadn't started to shrink yet. Let us know how it makes you feel.

Mine comes premixed, so I don't know how the math is done when you add the water. For me, the .25 would be 250iu. My doc has me on two 400iu injections per week.

[subnet]

not sure what my does is in terms of IUs, but i have 5000 units in a 5 ml vial, i added 2.75 ml bact water, then draw with insulin syringe to the 25 mark for one dose, twice a week. i simply followed the clinic's instructions and forgot to ask for the details! besides getting my boys back, what else am i expecting to feel and when will i feel anything?

so lemme see if we can figure this out bass:
5000 iu / 2.75 ml = 1818.18 iu/ml. If you take 1/4 that (.25), then it's approx 454.5455 per dose . I know my clinic prescribed me 500iu on day 5 and 6 of my protocol, so we're close. I think Chrisler and his protocal states 250iu x 2 times per week, same as what Rebel gets.

And for me, I saw a definite increase in size, although my boys didn't shrink WAY down like they do here. My first week on the HcG, I felt really sick but not sure if it's related as I haven't had that experience since... One thing that you might have to monitor of course, is your E2/Estradiol level now that you're taking HcG.

[JohnnyVegas]

^^^Question: when you add 2.75 ml water to a substance, won't the total volume of the solution be more than just the 2.75 water? don't they normally tell you to add the appropriate amount of water to give you 5 ml of final solution? I am NOT correcting... I am honestly asking.

[GotNoBlueMilk]

Yes Johnny, but the powder is soluable and the difference is minimal. Also, they account for all that when they put the powder in the vial. So in the end 0.25 ml has exactly the amount of hCG as it is supposed to.

[subnet]

Johnny - I've thought about this before as well, and technically I think you're right, except that in our case the amount of powder is really so little in comparison to the amount of bac water, that it really doesn't impact the volume that much. My opinion of course and I think I've probably been wrong once or twice before lol.

edit: beaten to it by gnbm!

[JD250]

Different clinics say different things....it's a matter of math so the amount of water added doesnt matter.....the volume of compound of HCG is insignificant......Crisler recomends 250 units twice a week....most clinics prescribe exactly twice that much.......ever wonder why? I just cut my dose back to 250 units and it's just fine, now my HCG goes exactly twice as far......the same thing happens with anastrozol, clinics always prescribe more than is needed.....$$$$$$$

[bass]

thanks for the responses guys, and for the math! i agree with you JD regarding the clinics prescribing more than needed!

JohnnyV, i will definitely keep you guys posted!

[GotNoBlueMilk]

I have dropped my hCG down to 100 IUs 2x/week. It's been two weeks now and haven't seen any shrinkage yet. I noticed definate shrinkage after two weeks of TRT, back before doing hCG. So this dose may be sufficient.

And interestingly enough, I actually feel a little better now. I don't know if hCG raises prolactin or anything, but this past week I have definately been feeling a little better. And it isn't because E2 is lower, since my E2 never gets above 28 w/o me getting gyno symptoms. So my E2 wasn't high before I dropped the dosage, this is definate.

That being said, I am a firm believer in hCG still.

[steroid.com 1]

Glade to see you finally on HCG Bass! Co-administering HCG with T provides for much more then just shrunken balls. You need pregnenolone and without natural LH HCG will tell your testes to produce it and a lot of other stuff that you need as well.

My advise for what it's worth; don't use the size of your balls as measurement indicator...they are not. You need to provide enough HCG to make sure the testes are optimized. Keep doses low to manage intra-testicular E2. Lower doses and more frequent will manage E2 in the testicles, won't over stimulate the receptors on the Leydig cells and make the boys produce what they are supposed to produce.

I inject 120 T Cyp weekly and inject 250 iu of HCG EOD. Many men who start a HCG protocol Bass report a greater sense of well being. And of the biggest pluses for the use of HCG is the natural production of T in many men.

Happy for you Bass, keep us posted on how you feel.

gd

[Black]

Glade to see you finally on HCG Bass! Co-administering HCG with T provides for much more then just shrunken balls. You need pregnenolone and without natural LH HCG will tell your testes to produce it and a lot of other stuff that you need as well.

My advise for what it's worth; don't use the size of your balls as measurement indicator...they are not. You need to provide enough HCG to make sure the testes are optimized. Keep doses low to manage intra-testicular E2. Lower doses and more frequent will manage E2 in the testicles, won't over stimulate the receptors on the Leydig cells and make the boys produce what they are supposed to produce.

I inject 120 T Cyp weekly and inject 250 iu of HCG EOD. Many men who start a HCG protocol Bass report a greater sense of well being. And of the biggest pluses for the use of HCG is the natural production of T in many men.

Happy for you Bass, keep us posted on how you feel.

gd

So you take about 1000iu a week? I used to administer 250iu 2x a week. Didn't really notice anything. So I switched to 500iu 2x a week and noticed physicall changes (testicles). And for the last week, I've been administering 750iu 2x a week and have been feeling an improved sense of well being. I also take 160mg Test Cyp a week.

Do you think I'll utilized the HCG better if I switch to EOD dosing?

[bass]

Glade to see you finally on HCG Bass! Co-administering HCG with T provides for much more then just shrunken balls. You need pregnenolone and without natural LH HCG will tell your testes to produce it and a lot of other stuff that you need as well.

My advise for what it's worth; don't use the size of your balls as measurement indicator...they are not. You need to provide enough HCG to make sure the testes are optimized. Keep doses low to manage intra-testicular E2. Lower doses and more frequent will manage E2 in the testicles, won't over stimulate the receptors on the Leydig cells and make the boys produce what they are supposed to produce.

I inject 120 T Cyp weekly and inject 250 iu of HCG EOD. Many men who start a HCG protocol Bass report a greater sense of well being. And of the biggest pluses for the use of HCG is the natural production of T in many men.

Happy for you Bass, keep us posted on how you feel.

gd

Thanks GDevine! funny you mention all the benefits especially the way I feel, not sure if its too soon to credit hCG but i been feeling so great today, today was my second shot, i just feel normal! not sure if that makes sense, but i feel this greater sense of well being as you put it, and the usual lower back pain (muscle tightness) is like going away and feel more flexible! then again i am taking deca as well, but i took deca and didn't feel this way before, its a different feeling altogether, maybe in couple of weeks I'll now more, but so far so good! or maybe its placebo effect!

[bass]

So you take about 1000iu a week? I used to administer 250iu 2x a week. Didn't really notice anything. So I switched to 500iu 2x a week and noticed physicall changes (testicles). And for the last week, I've been administering 750iu 2x a week and have been feeling an improved sense of well being. I also take 160mg Test Cyp a week.

Do you think I'll utilized the HCG better if I switch to EOD dosing?

this just gets better!

[JD250]

So you take about 1000iu a week? I used to administer 250iu 2x a week. Didn't really notice anything. So I switched to 500iu 2x a week and noticed physicall changes (testicles). And for the last week, I've been administering 750iu 2x a week and have been feeling an improved sense of well being. I also take 160mg Test Cyp a week.

Do you think I'll utilized the HCG better if I switch to EOD dosing?

Interesting stuff, I suppose we can assume that this , like most things concerning TRT, is an individual thing. Many people use 1000units a week, but administer it quite differently as is made obvious by this thread. If it works I say go for it, each of us will respond a little differently.


A question for Gdevine......how long have you been doing250 units EOD? I'm asking because my understanding is that by giving it a break 5 days out of the week you in turn lessen the chances of becoming desensitized, of course I believe that actual experience ALWAYS trumps a good theory

Enjoy feeling better Bass, good for you bro.

[GotNoBlueMilk]

Interesting stuff, I suppose we can assume that this , like most things concerning TRT, is an individual thing.

hCG mimics LH. So you will need an amount in accordance with your sensativity to LH. Keep in mind that some people have low T because thier pitutitary doesn't produce enough LH for some reason. Others have good LH levels but low T because their leydig cells don't respond to the LH.

For me, I had low LH baseline values. So my boys respond well to LH, they just weren't seeing enough of it to make enough T. Bottom line is Ijust don't need much hCG to keep the leydig cells functioning. Dante's leydig cells must not respond to LH as well as they should, so he needs a higher does to accomplish the same goal.

[Far from massive]

hCG mimics LH. So you will need an amount in accordance with your sensativity to LH. Keep in mind that some people have low T because thier pitutitary doesn't produce enough LH for some reason. Others have good LH levels but low T because their leydig cells don't respond to the LH.

For me, I had low LH baseline values. So my boys respond well to LH, they just weren't seeing enough of it to make enough T. Bottom line is Ijust don't need much hCG to keep the leydig cells functioning. Dante's leydig cells must not respond to LH as well as they should, so he needs a higher does to accomplish the same goal.

Nice reply

[steroid.com 1]

Crisler states in his protocol for HCG:
It is important that no more than 500IU of HCG be administered on any given day. There is only just so much stimulation possible, and exceeding that not only is wasteful, doing so has important negative consequences. Higher doses overly stimulate testicular aromatase, which inappropriately raises estrogen levels, and brings on the detrimental effects of same. It also causes Leydig cell desentization to LH, and we are therefore inducing primary hypogonadism while perhaps treating secondary hypogonadism. 250IU QD is an effective, and safe, dose. After all, we are merely replacing that which is lost to inhibition.

In my previous report I recommended 250IU of HCG twice per week for all TRT patients, taken the day of, along with the day before, the weekly test cyp injection. After looking at countless lab printouts, listening to subjective reports from patients, and learning more about HCG, I am now shifting that regimen forward one day. In other words, my test cyp TRT patients now take their HCG at 250IU two days before, as well as the day immediately previous to, their IM shot. All administer their HCG subcutaneously, and dosage may be adjusted as necessary (I have yet to see more than 350IU per dose required).

I made this change after realizing that the previous HCG protocol was boosting serum testosterone levels too much, as the test cyp serum concentrations rise, approaching its peak at roughly the 72 hour mark. The original goal of supporting serum androgen levels with HCG had overshot its mark.

I highly recommend his paper on HCG protocol; the paper is here: http://www.allthingsmale.com/word_docs/HCGupdate.doc

[steroid.com 1]

So you take about 1000iu a week? I used to administer 250iu 2x a week. Didn't really notice anything. So I switched to 500iu 2x a week and noticed physicall changes (testicles). And for the last week, I've been administering 750iu 2x a week and have been feeling an improved sense of well being. I also take 160mg Test Cyp a week.

Do you think I'll utilized the HCG better if I switch to EOD dosing?

750 is too much. Read Crisler above.

Yes, 250 EOD in my personal opinion is a much better approach than 750 twice a week.

EOD is not 1000 iu / wk. Think of it as 3.5 / wk.

This protocol works great for me. My Doc originally want me to do 500 iu two and one day before T. I didn't like that as it was hitting the boys to hard back to back potentially causing spikes in E2. So, I spread out my T injections to twice a week (60 mg per) and moved his originally 1000 per week to 250 iu EOD (some weeks 1000 some weeks 750).

My BW is damn near perfect. So for me, this works; I feel and look great.

[steroid.com 1]

Thanks GDevine! funny you mention all the benefits especially the way I feel, not sure if its too soon to credit hCG but i been feeling so great today, today was my second shot, i just feel normal! not sure if that makes sense, but i feel this greater sense of well being as you put it, and the usual lower back pain (muscle tightness) is like going away and feel more flexible! then again i am taking deca as well, but i took deca and didn't feel this way before, its a different feeling altogether, maybe in couple of weeks I'll now more, but so far so good! or maybe its placebo effect!

EVERYTHING you state here Bass is a common thread among men who were not on HCG during thier protocol and then added later.

Enjoy a great Father's Day Bass; you now have even more to be grateful for

[bass]

EVERYTHING you state here Bass is a common thread among men who were not on HCG during thier protocol and then added later.

Enjoy a great Father's Day Bass; you now have even more to be grateful for

thanks gd, and if you are a dad have a great one too!

[JD250]

Happy fathers day fellas! Thanks for the explanations guys, I appreciate you guys sharing your experiences and protocols, it makes the learning curve a little easier to handle.

[bass]

so lemme see if we can figure this out bass:
5000 iu / 2.75 ml = 1818.18 iu/ml. If you take 1/4 that (.25), then it's approx 454.5455 per dose . I know my clinic prescribed me 500iu on day 5 and 6 of my protocol, so we're close. I think Chrisler and his protocal states 250iu x 2 times per week, same as what Rebel gets.

And for me, I saw a definite increase in size, although my boys didn't shrink WAY down like they do here. My first week on the HcG, I felt really sick but not sure if it's related as I haven't had that experience since... One thing that you might have to monitor of course, is your E2/Estradiol level now that you're taking HcG.

Subnet, i did the calculation without looking at your formula and came up with exactly the same results! thanks again for taking the time to post it!

[Black]

750 is too much. Read Crisler above.

Yes, 250 EOD in my personal opinion is a much better approach than 750 twice a week.

EOD is not 1000 iu / wk. Think of it as 3.5 / wk.

This protocol works great for me. My Doc originally want me to do 500 iu two and one day before T. I didn't like that as it was hitting the boys to hard back to back potentially causing spikes in E2. So, I spread out my T injections to twice a week (60 mg per) and moved his originally 1000 per week to 250 iu EOD (some weeks 1000 some weeks 750).

My BW is damn near perfect. So for me, this works; I feel and look great.

Definintely don't want to cause any e2 problems. I will try 250iu EOD and go from there. Thanks Gd.

[steroid.com 1]

Definintely don't want to cause any e2 problems. I will try 250iu EOD and go from there. Thanks Gd.

Give it a try. I think you will you will be fine. 250 iu is a low dose and spread out EOD will keep E2 in check and the Leydig receptors in good shape. Keep us posted on Dante.

gd

[JD250]

Give it a try. I think you will you will be fine. 250 iu is a low dose and spread out EOD will keep E2 in check and the Leydig receptors in good shape. Keep us posted on Dante.

gd

I take AI eod also.....do you think it would matter if hcg was done on the same days or on opposite days.......or would make no difference at all? I'm just considering giving the eod dosing a try for a while.

[steroid.com 1]

I take AI eod also.....do you think it would matter if hcg was done on the same days or on opposite days.......or would make no difference at all? I'm just considering giving the eod dosing a try for a while.

JD - We're sort of hijacking Bass's thread...but good stuff is being said here so unless he says otherwise...

Personally, very small doses of an AI EOD is a nice protocol especially in controlling non-testicular E2 as it provides less of the high and low and mimics a more natural balance.

However, Aromatase inhibitors have proven to be largely ineffective in controlling intra-testicular E2...why the low doses more frequently. So it really won't make a difference when you take the AI in cycle to the HCG.

However, I take .5 mg of Anastrozole the same day I take my 60 mg of Test Cyp (Twice a week). Both have about the same half-life on average (and it really depends on a mans metabolism) so when my T is peaking so is the AI...a good balance.

My TRT Doc is in full support of this.

Last BW had my E2 at 22.9...nice

[JD250]

Yea, sorry Bass. gdevine, I'm gonna try eod for HCG and see how I feel. Thanks for your input man!

[bass]

well its been three weeks and the only thing i noticed is the sack hangs in stead of shriveled up and tucked inside! no size change! i remember the clinic saying each vial is about 7 shots, well i took my sixth shot and there is still quite a bit in the vial! but the dose based on everyone's calculations is about 500iu. i take it twice a week, should i increase the frequency? maybe do eod with smaller dose! or is 3 weeks too soon to see any results?

[steroid.com 1]

To soon. See results in about 90 days and depends the stage of atrophy your boys are in. Patience bass!

[zaggahamma]

ac/dc plays in the background

[HitIt]

fwiw i started out at 250 UI eod....that wasn't enough to keep my sack from getting tight so i bumped it to 500 UI eod and now i"m good and free hanging....balls are a little smaller but only i can tell (maybe lost 2mm of diameter) 200mg/wk TE - age 40 in a month

[bass]

so no need to adjust the dose?

[HitIt]

unknown..i've considered lowering my dose to find the edge of the eod dosage that keeps my sack from tightening up (thinking of saving $$)...but i think i'd rather be over that line on the more side at this point .....and i know it's more than 250 UI eod ....to me shrinkage of the nuts isn't the issue..it's the tight sack that drives me nuts..pun intended (and 500 UI eod seems to do the trick)

[steroid.com 1]

Even Crisler writes that 500 iu at one time is too much and can desensitize the receptors on the leydig cells. Try an EOD schedule bass at 250 or 300 iu. Lower dose each injection but more over time and consistent which is good in controlling intratesticular E2.

[bass]

ok, thanks guys! I'll will talk to the clinic as well to see whats their take on it.

[Black]

Even Crisler writes that 500 iu at one time is too much and can desensitize the receptors on the leydig cells. Try an EOD schedule bass at 250 or 300 iu. Lower dose each injection but more over time and consistent which is good in controlling intratesticular E2.

Are there any tests that can be done to show leydig cells desensitization? What about any tests that can tell the effectiveness of HCG?

[oscarjones]

Not to try and hijack the thread or anything, but is the general consensus is that one may stay on HCG and a low dose of AI continuously throughout their HRT/TRT? I find this awesome if so!

[steroid.com 1]

Not to try and hijack the thread or anything, but is the general consensus is that one may stay on HCG and a low dose of AI continuously throughout their HRT/TRT? I find this awesome if so!

Correct.

[bass]

update!

4 weeks and finally i felt the boys a little hard as apposed to soft mush, also noticed some weight to them and a little more sensitivity, so far so good!