Need opinions guys. 200 test level. Should i bother with HCG only trt?

[jaxbrah]

New member here.

So, i got my results and i have a test level of 200. Im 24 btw. I have 1 kid and i do have a desire to have another kid 3 or so years down the line. So fertility is a little bit of an issue. Because of this, my doc recommended i start by taking hcg only.

My question is, will hcg be enough to bring a 200 level up to a respectable number? I am also very very interested in the bodybuilding advantages of trt, so what im reakly interestes in is the combination of hcg and test injections. Is this relatively safe for future furtility? I feel my doc may be trying to be alittle more conservative than i like. Any thoughts?

[JD250]

Got any blood work results you can post for us?

[jaxbrah]

Got any blood work results you can post for us?

Im at work right now but ill gladly post them when i get home. Which numbers are you particulary interested in?

If it helps any, she is willing to put me on any treatment i want ( hcg , hcg+androgel , hcg+test). I have a very low sex drive and is causing problems within my marriage. Also my ambition in life has been depleted along with all my energy and i see little to novfesults in the gym. So if there is a relatively decent shot at retaining fertility then im all over the hcg+test injection treatment. Furtility is a concern but my overall well being is more of a concern. I already have a child so if worst case scenario happens, it wont be entirely devastating.

Id like to also add that she said that sperm banking is also an option

[sirupate]

Well, your doctor sounds great in that she is willing to treat you as you want. Wish I had access to her. I'd keep the HCG in whatever protocall you establish. The gel or injections will help things in terms of libido and tolerance to workouts. Up to you on gel versus injecting. Some guys do better on one or the other...pro's and con's to each method of delivery. You could try HCG for a while and see what your levels do, then add the gel or injections if the HCG isn't bringing your levels up enough. But I'd keep the HCG no matter what.

[jaxbrah]

Well, your doctor sounds great in that she is willing to treat you as you want. Wish I had access to her. I'd keep the HCG in whatever protocall you establish. The gel or injections will help things in terms of libido and tolerance to workouts. Up to you on gel versus injecting. Some guys do better on one or the other...pro's and con's to each method of delivery. You could try HCG for a while and see what your levels do, then add the gel or injections if the HCG isn't bringing your levels up enough. But I'd keep the HCG no matter what.

Thanks for the reply. Ive talked with her since i made this thread, and after telling her a littke history of myself she said a good plan would be hcg plus test along with sperm banking as insurance. She recommended the once per 2 weeks dosage. I know you guys all do once a week but will that cut its effectiveness in half since i will be taking half the dose at once? Surely there has to be a reason they dose you for every other week.

[sirupate]

Thanks for the reply. Ive talked with her since i made this thread, and after telling her a littke history of myself she said a good plan would be hcg plus test along with sperm banking as insurance. She recommended the once per 2 weeks dosage. I know you guys all do once a week but will that cut its effectiveness in half since i will be taking half the dose at once? Surely there has to be a reason they dose you for every other week.

Every other week seems to be what they learned in med school. Heck, my endo and my sports doctor have mentioned every 3 weeks or every month for injections. Problem is, test. cyp. has a half-life of 5-7 days. Meaning, your body will have used up half of the injected amount in 5-7 days. The remaining period of time until your next injection will find you in a low state. Injecting less frequently than once a week is a emotional roller coaster for most guys. A few guys may be able to tolerate this hormone level roller coaster, but it doesn't work out so well for most. You have to earn her trust I suppose...I don't know if you have the option of injecting on your own and splitting the 2 week dose in half and administering once a week. If she insists on giving you the injections every 2 weeks, you can try it and see how you feel, but I might just opt for the gel which provides stable levels.

[APIs]

Furtility is a concern but my overall well being is more of a concern.

I think you've answered yourself right here. Most of us have been where you are now and believe me, life is great on the other side. Because of your age I would suggest working with yr doc on the HCG first and see what happens. But yr in a good position with this doc anyway it seems. If you do go the Test/HCG route, she'll likely come around for weekly, self-administered injections. BTW, that's a decent starting dose you mention and you can adjust with Blood Work results from there. As for the sperm bank, that's a definite option as I've heard that many body builders do this. This was the first thing my Doc asked me before going on TRT...

[JD250]

At 24 I would look at the REAL reason you have low test, maybe it can be fixed, ever use AAS before?, an extensive blood panel is needed.

[steroid.com 1]

New member here.

So, i got my results and i have a test level of 200. Im 24 btw. I have 1 kid and i do have a desire to have another kid 3 or so years down the line. So fertility is a little bit of an issue. Because of this, my doc recommended i start by taking hcg only.

My question is, will hcg be enough to bring a 200 level up to a respectable number? I am also very very interested in the bodybuilding advantages of trt, so what im reakly interestes in is the combination of hcg and test injections. Is this relatively safe for future furtility? I feel my doc may be trying to be alittle more conservative than i like. Any thoughts?

Mono HCG therapy can and will work but it all depends if you are primary or secondary. Do you know?

If your LH is low causing your low test HCG can cause you to produce more natural test. At your age and wanting kids in the future a mono HCG therapy may be just the trick.

But again, are you primary or secondary?

gd

[GotNoBlueMilk]

^^^ what he said

[steroid.com 1]

Jax - This may help you understand the difference between primary and secondary. If you're secondary then HCG should be of help assuming you are still producing albeit as lower volumes due to low LH and FSH. And welcome to the community you will find great guys here, lots of support and education

Hypogonadism in a man refers to a decrease in one or both of the two major functions of the testes: sperm production and testosterone production. These abnormalities usually result from disease of the testes (primary hypogonadism) or disease of the pituitary or hypothalamus (secondary hypogonadism). In occasional cases, however, a defect in the ability to respond to testosterone is the cause of hypogonadism. (See "Diagnosis and treatment of disorders of the androgen receptor" and "Steroid 5-alpha-reductase 2 deficiency".)

The distinction between primary and secondary hypogonadism is made by measurement of the serum concentrations of luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH):

•The patient has primary hypogonadism if the serum testosterone concentration and the sperm count are below normal and the serum LH and FSH concentrations are above normal.
•The patient has secondary hypogonadism if the serum testosterone concentration and the sperm count are subnormal and the serum LH and FSH concentrations are normal or reduced.

I was secondary. Low normal T, LH and FSH with all the symptoms.

[jaxbrah]

A lot of great replies.

It seems i am secondary as my lh and fsh are both in normal ranges. My free test is at 4.8 which according to the range is rather significantly low.

I might have missed this in the thread but, will taking half the dose once a week cut its effectiveness in half? Shes allowing me to self inject btw

[jaxbrah]

Also i have never used aas.

[JD250]

A lot of great replies.

It seems i am secondary as my lh and fsh are both in normal ranges. My free test is at 4.8 which according to the range is rather significantly low.

I might have missed this in the thread but, will taking half the dose once a week cut its effectiveness in half? Shes allowing me to self inject btw

No!! In fact you'll have much steadier levels without as much tendancy to convert to e2....as for hcg it's been done several ways, I believe gdevine mentioned doing 250units eod....so I've been trying that and I THINK it may actually help with an overall feeling of well being, also utilizing the idea of keeping things at a steady level throughout the week.

[steroid.com 1]

No!! In fact you'll have much steadier levels without as much tenancy to convert to e2....as for hcg it's been done several ways, I believe gdevine mentioned doing 250units eod....so I've been trying that and I THINK it may actually help with an overall feeling of well being, also utilizing the idea of keeping things at a steady level throughout the week.

^^^Yep.

And keep your doses low i.e., 250 iu per injection but keep the frequency consistent. I like 250 iu EOD BUT that's on a TRT protocol. Jax may do just fine on 250 iu E3D.

Again, be consistent with your injections; your body likes and responds well to regularity PLUS your natural T levels will not only increase but stay consistent and that my friend is a formula for success!

[jaxbrah]

Lol, guys im not really following on the injection part. What is EOD?

Ill be on hcg as well as T injections. Im just trying to build a regimen from the tips you guus are giving me. So far what i gather is that i should take my biweekly dose and take half every week to keep consistent levels. Which will be equally as potent as a full dosage every two weeks correct? As far as hcg goes, how often should i be injecting that? Every other day?

[MastaMan]

According to what you told us from your bloodwork, you do have secondary hypogonadism, since your LH and FSH are in the normal ranges. So it would be smarter to start off with just HCG and see if that helps.

Secondary: Problem with HPTA(Hypothalamus pituitary testicular axis). Testicles are completely functional, but they are not receiving the signals to produce test or sperm from the HPTA. Can be treated with HCG, which mimics the effects of LH.

"The patient has secondary hypogonadism if his serum testosterone concentration and the sperm count are low and his serum LH and FSH concentrations are normal or low" http://www.uptodate.com/contents/cau...adism-in-males

Start with HCG only!

[jaxbrah]

According to what you told us from your bloodwork, you do have secondary hypogonadism, since your LH and FSH are in the normal ranges. So it would be smarter to start off with just HCG and see if that helps.

Secondary: Problem with HPTA(Hypothalamus pituitary testicular axis). Testicles are completely functional, but they are not receiving the signals to produce test or sperm from the HPTA. Can be treated with HCG, which mimics the effects of LH.

"The patient has secondary hypogonadism if his serum testosterone concentration and the sperm count are low and his serum LH and FSH concentrations are normal or low" http://www.uptodate.com/contents/cau...adism-in-males

Start with HCG only!

Interesting. From what i understand, hcg uses my own body to produce its own T by jumpstarting the signals. Ive always had relatively low T but over the past 2 years the symptoms have gotten worse. So my concern is that hcg would help resend my signals, but that it would just get me back to where i was a few years ago which wasnt very good either. I told my doc this and that was when she said hcg+t would be a good plan. Along with sperm banking

[MastaMan]

In the end, whatever you think will work best, will work best.

But i think starting with HCG , then adding in the test if there is no improvement might be a good plan.

[jaxbrah]

In the end, whatever you think will work best, will work best.

But i think starting with HCG, then adding in the test if there is no improvement might be a good plan.

Thanks bro, all opinions are very much appreciated. I just want to live on the other side for once like you guys.

[jaxbrah]

Just wanna bump this thread cuz im still a little confused about the weekly doseage. Lets say my dose is 200 eow. If i take 100 ew will that be just as potent as 200 eow? What i mean is, will i feel more effect initially with 200eow since its twice the amount?


Also i have almost no facial hair. What i do have is rather thin. Will trt help me grow something respectable?

Oh yea, can someone tell me what AI is? Thanks

[lovbyts]

Just wanna bump this thread cuz im still a little confused about the weekly doseage. Lets say my dose is 200 eow. If i take 100 ew will that be just as potent as 200 eow? What i mean is, will i feel more effect initially with 200eow since its twice the amount?


Also i have almost no facial hair. What i do have is rather thin. Will trt help me grow something respectable?

Oh yea, can someone tell me what AI is? Thanks

It's not that it is as potent. Taking 200 mg every other week you will feel good, then really good, then Ok and maybe no so good before it's time for your next injection. In other words it does not work for 2 weeks. Some doctors are uneducated about this and dont understand the 1/2 life of Test.

Injection 1x a week is much better and even better is 2x a week, it keeps the levels even more steady but most dont like to do that.

Read more of the sticky notes at the top to understand more and ask more questions. I'm someone who HATES needles but I still do 1x a week because I know it's better.

[steroid.com 1]

It's not that it is as potent. Taking 200 mg every other week you will feel good, then really good, then Ok and maybe no so good before it's time for your next injection. In other words it does not work for 2 weeks. Some doctors are uneducated about this and dont understand the 1/2 life of Test.

Injection 1x a week is much better and even better is 2x a week, it keeps the levels even more steady but most dont like to do that.

Read more of the sticky notes at the top to understand more and ask more questions. I'm someone who HATES needles but I still do 1x a week because I know it's better.

Agree 100%

[lovbyts]

I read another post a while back that made a LOT of sense. The reason we are doing 1x a week or more is to keep the test levels steady. Part of keeping the levels steady is so we dont have test spikes. Test spikes can be converted into E2 so we have to take an AI. For those who are E2 sensitive then pinning 3x, 5x or even 7x a week small amounts would stop the test spikes also stopping or minimizing the E2 conversion.

[steroid.com 1]

I read another post a while back that made a LOT of sense. The reason we are doing 1x a week or more is to keep the test levels steady. Part of keeping the levels steady is so we dont have test spikes. Test spikes can be converted into E2 so we have to take an AI. For those who are E2 sensitive then pinning 3x, 5x or even 7x a week small amounts would stop the test spikes also stopping or minimizing the E2 conversion.

Agree 100%. The more we can reproduce the way our bodies regulate the more natural the process. All hormones fluctuate but smaller doses on a regular basis should eliminate a lot of issues. The only problem is the dedication and number of pins that is required. Sticking yourself every day would get old real soon.

[zack67360]

Somewhere on this forum I read a study (or a link taking you to the study results) that stated Testosterone blood levels were the same for injecting SQ as it was for IM. I self injected SQ for the first time today.
z

[steroid.com 1]

Somewhere on this forum I read a study (or a link taking you to the study results) that stated Testosterone blood levels were the same for injecting SQ as it was for IM. I self injected SQ for the first time today.
z

It was a Candian study. You can go to PubMed and find it.