Recieved PARTIAL Lab Results Today. Is this Enough Info for Any Advice?

[Titleesq]

Good Evening Everyone:

I received the bulk of my lab results today, but I'm not sure if I have enough information for anyone to try to make an informed opinion as to my problem(s). I'm a 38 year old male, 5 foot 6, and weighing 190lbs. There was plenty of overkill as far as tests performed (at least I think so), so I will just try to list what I think may be relevant:

Keep in mind that as of June 20, 2011 my Total T was 252ng. The test that was just performed included my Total T as well as Free T, but those results have not arrived yet. Another important piece of the puzzle that did not come back today either, is SHBG.

I have had two injections of Test Cyp at 200mgs. The first one was Thursday June 23, and the last injection that I had was last Monday June 27.


TSH, 0.79 mIU/L (.40-4.50)
Ferritin, 35 ng/mL (20-345)
WBC, 6.7 Thousand/uL (3.8-10.8)
RBC, 4.32 Million/uL (4.20-5.80)
Hemoglobin, 13.7 g/dL (13.2-17.1)
Hematocrit, 40 % (38.5-50.0)
Reticulocyte Count, Absolute, 108000 cells/mcl (25000-90000)
Cholesterol, 215 MG/DL (125-200)
Triglyceride, 331 MG/DL (<150)
HDL Cholesterol, 35 MG/DL (> or = 40)
LDL Cholesterol, Calculated 114 MG/DL (<130)
Cortisol, Total, Serum, 11.8 mcg/dL (AM) 4.0-22.0 mcg/dL (PM) 3.0-17.0 mcg/dL
Progesterone <0.5 ng/mL (<1.4)
Prolactin, Serum 11.4 ng/mL (2,0-18.0)
LH, Serum, <0.2 mIU/mL (1.5-9.3)
FSH, Serum, <0.7 mIU/mL (1.6-8.0)
T4, Total, 5.9 ug/dL (4.5-12.0)
T3, Total 136 ng/dL (76.181)
T3, Free, 3.7 pg/mL (2.3-4.2)
T3, Uptake, 30.7 % (27.8-40.7)
T4 Free, Calculated, 1.8 UG/DL (1.6-3.7)
T4 Free, Non-Dialysis, 0.8 ng/dL (0.8-1.8)
Estradiol, 72 pg/mL (13-54)
PSA, Total 0.4 ng/mL (0.0-4.0)
IGE, Serum 14 kU/L (0-114)

Without the results of Testosterone, both Total and Free, as well as SHBG, IGF-1, and IGF-BP3, is it possible to guess what the hell is going on with me and what my next course of action should most likely be?

Thanks to all of you in advance,

Ari

[Titleesq]

Sorry for the double post, but I am kind of freaking out right now. I feel like absolute crap, and do not know whether or not to stop my treatments, or just stay the course. The only medication in my protocol is Test Cyp. Looking at some of these numbers, don't I need to add something to the mix?

Any and all suggestions will be totally appreciated. I am concerned that there may be something major wrong with me. Am I just being crazy?

Thanks

Ari

[lifter65]

stick in there i know its bad but you will eventually get better
besides the tests highlighted your prolactin is very high as well. which is bad

[Titleesq]

Thanks a ton for the response lifter. Do you have any clue as to whether or not my results could indicate a tumor? Also, do you have any suggestions for changing up my protocol? Perhaps adding an AI or some hcg? What could the prolactin number indicate? When will I start to feel better and experience all of the excellent benefits that everyone is always talking about? Sorry if I am inundating you with questions, I just feel like I'm at the end of my rope and don't know what to do. I'm only 38 and can't imagine living the rest of my life like this.

Thanks for everything....

[JD250]

Well your estradiol is out of whack, an AI is needed which will help with prolactin also........that e2 has got to have you feeling like shit.

Who ordered this blood panel without Testosterone included?

Research Dr. Crislers trt protocol for a good example of where to start and what you need........BUT FIRST, get a complete blood panel so you aren't guessing.


Any blood work from before you started injections?

[sirupate]

What JD250 said...plus your LH and FSH are quite low. You'd expect that result if you were already shut down from TRT, but since you've only had two shots of test., that may indicate that your pituitary isn't functioning up to snuff. That could be several things...one of which is a benign tumor. Diagnosing that may require a MRI of the pituitary. It can be treated with meds., or with surgery. But, it sounds like you may need an endocrinologist if your doctor thinks that is a possibility. No reason to panic at this point. Good TRT takes some time...a number of doctor visits and labs. Be patient and stay the course. You'll be feeling better before too long.

[lifter65]

title... if you are dead freaking serious about getting better go see dr crisler, you could prolly get an appt within 2 weeks

[zaggahamma]

What JD250 said...plus your LH and FSH are quite low. You'd expect that result if you were already shut down from TRT, but since you've only had two shots of test., that may indicate that your pituitary isn't functioning up to snuff. That could be several things...one of which is a benign tumor. Diagnosing that may require a MRI of the pituitary. It can be treated with meds., or with surgery. But, it sounds like you may need an endocrinologist if your doctor thinks that is a possibility. No reason to panic at this point. Good TRT takes some time...a number of doctor visits and labs. Be patient and stay the course. You'll be feeling better before too long.

^^this^^^

to add...in your other post you mention you being 5' 6" 190 ...not sure how relevant but seing your triglycerides made me wonder what your bf% is? how good/bad is the diet?

[Titleesq]

JD250,

I do indeed feel like SHIT. What do you recommend as far as an AI and a dosing schedule? Testosterone, both Total and Free were ordered, however the lab had to send it out and I will not have the results until next week. Before I started the injects, the only test that was performed was Total T, and that came back at 252ng.

Sirupate,

So in your opinion, PRIOR to treatment I already had abnormally low levels of LH and FSH? If that is indeed the case, was it a mistake to start trt with Test Cyp injects only, or should something else have been added (or substituted)? Besides an MRI, is there any way to rule out a tumor? I know I'm jumping ahead of myself here, but if it is a tumor what is the standard protocol for treatment necessary, and what is the recovery like?

jp,

Not too sure of exact bf%, but I know it ain't good. Prior to experiencing all of my symptoms I was a regular at the gym, but I TOTALLY lost the motivation. At one point not too long ago I did the Atkins for 2 months but lost 0. I am not the cleanest of eaters, but I certainly have been making an effort after finding out I had low T.

Thanks to all, you guys are GREAT!!!!!

[Ratt]

Titleesq
The higher your body fat the more E2 that is stored in your body and given you pinned 400mg in a week I can only imagine the roller coaster effect you're facing. I'm sure much of the test you injected was converted to E2 resulting in you feeling like shit. Don't try to rush this whole process.
When I started trt my my mid section was doughy, I had no motivation to work out, zero libido and would take a week to recover from a light work out. My doc started me on 75 mg/week and then moved it up to 100 mg/week where I have been for the last 10 months. Lately I have changed my dose to 80mg e5d and have not felt this good in 20 yrs. I would eat junk food and drink soda like crazy looking for any type of energy boost. Since trt I rarely eat junk food and have lost 10 lbs and the wife says I look like I'm 20 again.
You definitely need something to lower your E2, keep dosing at what your doc has prescribed. It may take 6-8 weeks to get adjusted right but it will be well worth it in the end. I'm sure you'll find that your energy levels will increase and with eating properly you'll find the weight start to drop off. Post your T levels when you get them.
Best of Luck

[sirupate]

"Sirupate,

So in your opinion, PRIOR to treatment I already had abnormally low levels of LH and FSH? If that is indeed the case, was it a mistake to start trt with Test Cyp injects only, or should something else have been added (or substituted)? Besides an MRI, is there any way to rule out a tumor? I know I'm jumping ahead of myself here, but if it is a tumor what is the standard protocol for treatment necessary, and what is the recovery like?"

I doubt that two injections is enough to crash your HTPA axis, resulting in very low LH and FSH levels. But, it isn't probably a mistake to start TRT anyway. I think I started the gel, then got tested for a pituitary tumor. MRI is the only way I know of to diagnose, but I'm not a doctor. In most cases they can shrink the tumor with meds. If surgery is necessary (unusual), they go in through your sinus cavity...so it isn't like they cut a hole in your noggin. From what I read, most of the time they don't find a benign tumor of the pituitary and they conclude that your pituitary is just malfunctioning for "unknown" reasons..."etiology unknown". Then...continue usual TRT. My endo said he didn't even know of a malignant tumor of the pituitary...so don't be concerned there.

[Titleesq]

Titleesq
The higher your body fat the more E2 that is stored in your body and given you pinned 400mg in a week I can only imagine the roller coaster effect you're facing. I'm sure much of the test you injected was converted to E2 resulting in you feeling like shit. Don't try to rush this whole process.
When I started trt my my mid section was doughy, I had no motivation to work out, zero libido and would take a week to recover from a light work out. My doc started me on 75 mg/week and then moved it up to 100 mg/week where I have been for the last 10 months. Lately I have changed my dose to 80mg e5d and have not felt this good in 20 yrs. I would eat junk food and drink soda like crazy looking for any type of energy boost. Since trt I rarely eat junk food and have lost 10 lbs and the wife says I look like I'm 20 again.
You definitely need something to lower your E2, keep dosing at what your doc has prescribed. It may take 6-8 weeks to get adjusted right but it will be well worth it in the end. I'm sure you'll find that your energy levels will increase and with eating properly you'll find the weight start to drop off. Post your T levels when you get them.
Best of Luck

Thanks Ratt,

What do you suggest as far something to lower my E2 (type of med, dosage, frequency)? What is the optimal range? Somewhere around 30? Any idea how long it will take me to get E2 down to optimal levels? 6-8 weeks? I guess I better learn some patience, as well as how to better accept this diagnosis.

Thanks a million.......

[Titleesq]

"Sirupate,

So in your opinion, PRIOR to treatment I already had abnormally low levels of LH and FSH? If that is indeed the case, was it a mistake to start trt with Test Cyp injects only, or should something else have been added (or substituted)? Besides an MRI, is there any way to rule out a tumor? I know I'm jumping ahead of myself here, but if it is a tumor what is the standard protocol for treatment necessary, and what is the recovery like?"

I doubt that two injections is enough to crash your HTPA axis, resulting in very low LH and FSH levels. But, it isn't probably a mistake to start TRT anyway. I think I started the gel, then got tested for a pituitary tumor. MRI is the only way I know of to diagnose, but I'm not a doctor. In most cases they can shrink the tumor with meds. If surgery is necessary (unusual), they go in through your sinus cavity...so it isn't like they cut a hole in your noggin. From what I read, most of the time they don't find a benign tumor of the pituitary and they conclude that your pituitary is just malfunctioning for "unknown" reasons..."etiology unknown". Then...continue usual TRT. My endo said he didn't even know of a malignant tumor of the pituitary...so don't be concerned there.

sirupate,

Thanks for the reassurance that I'm not gonna have to have my head cracked open. I guess that's a positive.

Quick question for anyone who wants to answer: What were your thoughts/feelings upon first being diagnosed with low T? If you care to elaborate, how did you handle the weeks leading up to being "cured"?

Thanks everyone............

[Ratt]

sirupate,

Thanks for the reassurance that I'm not gonna have to have my head cracked open. I guess that's a positive.

Quick question for anyone who wants to answer: What were your thoughts/feelings upon first being diagnosed with low T? If you care to elaborate, how did you handle the weeks leading up to being "cured"?

Thanks everyone............

My thoughts on being diagnosed were relief to start with. I was glad it was something that could be treated. Prior to being diagnosed the doc thought it may have been fibromyalga (spelling) and having a couple of friends pass away from cancer I had that in the back of my mind. After the couple of injections and seeing the positive results I came to the quick conclusion that I could live with weekly injections as long as I never felt that shity again.
I had chronic back/upper leg/groin and lower abs issues for 2-3 yrs and after my 2nd injection they cleared up and I have not felt better.
Once you and your doc figure out your protocol life will be so much more enjoyable.

As for you question about the E2, my body doesn't convert the T to E2 very much so with the dose I'm currently on my E2 is right in the mid range.
There are numerous guys on this forum who can provide more insight wrt the E2 issues and proper medication.

Cheers

[steroid.com 1]

I guess I just don't get it. Are you self medicating? These are all questions for your Doctor to answer. No one here I believe is a doctor and you're looking for a cure. You need to see a specialist right away with this panel (and what you get next week) and have them conduct a diagnosis and a course of action.

As stated, you're E2 is pretty damn high and with all the bad sides and why you are not seeing any relief from your test injections. I suspect it jumped up to where it is because of the 400 mg of test you blasted. Once the Test you injected runs out your E2 level may drop to wherever it was before your injections. A Doc who understands TRT protocols will put you on a Aromatase Inhibitor to bring that down right quick. I would imagine something like .25 mg EOD for 10 days...something like that. Then a weekly dose coadministered with your Test protocol.

As for your low FSH and LH; some here are saying that you may not be in HPTA shutdown yet, and you may not be; but with the 400 mg of Test that you took could very well explain why they are so low. Your pituitary gland is not producing these hormones because of your current test levels; your pituitary is not being signaled to produce these hormones so they are naturally low. IF you stop taking the Test they most likely will rebound to whatever level you were producing at befor the injections.

See a competent Doctor as soon as you can for the right medical advise. That's the best advise I can give you my friend!

gd

[Titleesq]

I guess I just don't get it. Are you self medicating? These are all questions for your Doctor to answer. No one here I believe is a doctor and you're looking for a cure. You need to see a specialist right away with this panel (and what you get next week) and have them conduct a diagnosis and a course of action.

As stated, you're E2 is pretty damn high and with all the bad sides and why you are not seeing any relief from your test injections. I suspect it jumped up to where it is because of the 400 mg of test you blasted. Once the Test you injected runs out your E2 level may drop to wherever it was before your injections. A Doc who understands TRT protocols will put you on a Aromatase Inhibitor to bring that down right quick. I would imagine something like .25 mg EOD for 10 days...something like that. Then a weekly dose coadministered with your Test protocol.

As for your low FSH and LH; some here are saying that you may not be in HPTA shutdown yet, and you may not be; but with the 400 mg of Test that you took could very well explain why they are so low. Your pituitary gland is not producing these hormones because of your current test levels; your pituitary is not being signaled to produce these hormones so they are naturally low. IF you stop taking the Test they most likely will rebound to whatever level you were producing at befor the injections.

See a competent Doctor as soon as you can for the right medical advise. That's the best advise I can give you my friend!

gd

Nah, not self-medicating (except for the idiotic move of taking my 2nd inject way too soon). I'll never do that again, but you live and learn sometimes. I was stupid and uneducated, and when the doc told me I had low T, I figured the more I took, the better I'd feel. Like I said, stupid mistake. I have only had one consultation with my current doc, and I think something may be fishy. Why she prescribed me Test injects with only my presenting symptoms and a single blood test (Total T) makes me suspect. While there may not be any doctors on this forum, it sure seems like there is lots of good information. All I'm trying to do is educate myself properly so I can question my doctors advice and not follow it blindly. I want to get better, and I'm willing to do whatever that may take.

Thanks for chiming in.......

[steroid.com 1]

Nah, not self-medicating (except for the idiotic move of taking my 2nd inject way too soon). I'll never do that again, but you live and learn sometimes. I was stupid and uneducated, and when the doc told me I had low T, I figured the more I took, the better I'd feel. Like I said, stupid mistake. I have only had one consultation with my current doc, and I think something may be fishy. Why she prescribed me Test injects with only my presenting symptoms and a single blood test (Total T) makes me suspect. While there may not be any doctors on this forum, it sure seems like there is lots of good information. All I'm trying to do is educate myself properly so I can question my doctors advice and not follow it blindly. I want to get better, and I'm willing to do whatever that may take.




Thanks for chiming in.......

Glad to help...

Without a doubt lots of experience here (both good and bad) with guys who have seen and been through it all...some a number of times! But remember one thing; everyone is different so what the guys here tell you is what they experienced and what you experience may well be much different. So, get with a competent TRT Doc and get the help you so deservedly owe yourself. There is no reason for you to feel like you do and with the right help you will feel like a new man.

My guess, to put your mind at ease a bit, is that your LH, FSH and E2 will all stabilize when the test you injected is metabolized. You were diagnosed as Low T; but the question is why? Are your primary or secondary? You won't know till that Test in you has run it's course and all levels stabilized so you can be checked again and diagnosed properly. There are a lot of guys here who have been totally mismanaged by uneducated and ignorant Doc's so make sure you find the right healthcare.

The labs you have now are all F'd up and not accurate because of the 400 mg of Test.

[Titleesq]

Glad to help...

Without a doubt lots of experience here (both good and bad) with guys who have seen and been through it all...some a number of times! But remember one thing; everyone is different so what the guys here tell you is what they experienced and what you experience may well be much different. So, get with a competent TRT Doc and get the help you so deservedly owe yourself. There is no reason for you to feel like you do and with the right help you will feel like a new man.

My guess, to put your mind at ease a bit, is that your LH, FSH and E2 will all stabilize when the test you injected is metabolized. You were diagnosed as Low T; but the question is why? Are your primary or secondary? You won't know till that Test in you has run it's course and all levels stabilized so you can be checked again and diagnosed properly. There are a lot of guys here who have been totally mismanaged by uneducated and ignorant Doc's so make sure you find the right healthcare.

The labs you have now are all F'd up and not accurate because of the 400 mg of Test.

Awesome information gdevine, and I really appreciate you sticking with me. I have gotten conflicting opinions on this, but do you honestly think that I actually injected enough T to lower my levels of LH and FSH to basically nil? Blood work was drawn 8 days after last 200mg inject. Second question, I am due for my next inject on Monday, which would put me back on my EOW schedule. I am agonizing over this now. What do you suggest I do? Should I completely stop everything, wait until all the supplemental T has left my system, and then get retested? If so, how long should I wait to get an accurate reading? I sent my doc the below email (in bold), but unfortunately haven't heard anything back:

My concern is this:

I am due for my next 200mg Test Cyp injection this coming Monday, July 11 (which will put me back on the EOW schedule). Do you think that I should continue with this protocol, or should I change it? Some of the options that I would like to discuss with you are as follows:

Should I maybe start injecting 100-150 mgs EW as opposed to 200mgs EOW?
Should I start taking an anti-estrogen medication to reduce what appears to be extremely high levels of Estradiol?
Should I consider adding something to stimulate LH production? The only thing I'm aware of is hCG.
Is there a possibility, based on the values presented, that I could have a pituitary tumor? If so, is this serious and/or does it need to be treated ASAP?

Thanks for everything man. This shit is rough............

[steroid.com 1]

Awesome information gdevine, and I really appreciate you sticking with me. I have gotten conflicting opinions on this, but do you honestly think that I actually injected enough T to lower my levels of LH and FSH to basically nil? Blood work was drawn 8 days after last 200mg inject.

Yes, in my personal opinion I do think it suppressed your LH and FSH. You injected 400 mg of Test (almost blast level) a few days a part and even with avg half life (depending upon how your body metabolizes T) you probably still had very elevated T levels even at 8 days out. Once that happens there is no need for your Hypothalamus to signal your pituitary to release LH or FSH as your T levels were still high. Just think about it for a minute and it makes sense. I don't know how long it takes to go into HPTA shutdown but I do know it doesn't take long at all. So yes, I think you were in shutdown.


Second question, I am due for my next inject on Monday, which would put me back on my EOW schedule. I am agonizing over this now. What do you suggest I do? Should I completely stop everything, wait until all the supplemental T has left my system, and then get retested? If so, how long should I wait to get an accurate reading? I sent my doc the below email (in bold), but unfortunately haven't heard anything back:

IMPO, yes you can stay on your schedule and get your T level back to an optimal range so no worries there BUT you need an AI and make no mistake about it. All that T you are taking now is wasted and converting to E2 thru aromatization. You will need to get tested again in about 6 weeks to see where your T levels are to get dialed in and get past this little blast you did.

My concern is this:

I am due for my next 200mg Test Cyp injection this coming Monday, July 11 (which will put me back on the EOW schedule). Do you think that I should continue with this protocol, or should I change it? Some of the options that I would like to discuss with you are as follows:

Should I maybe start injecting 100-150 mgs EW as opposed to 200mgs EOW?
Yes, 100 mg a week or even better 50 mg twice a week. Helps control E2 and keeps T levels more consistent.
Should I start taking an anti-estrogen medication to reduce what appears to be extremely high levels of Estradiol?
Today isn't fast enough...answer you question?
Should I consider adding something to stimulate LH production? The only thing I'm aware of is hCG.
You need HCG for a lot of reason. Get is soon or in the next few weeks your balls are going to start to hurt and get smaller at the same time. Plus, with little to no Pregnenolone production you could feel like shit again![/B]Is there a possibility, based on the values presented, that I could have a pituitary tumor? If so, is this serious and/or does it need to be treated ASAP?
It's always a possibility man, but chances are it's either primary or secondary hypogonadism. Only a Doc can diagnose this for you. Wait to see how things work out with your TRT protocol.

Thanks for everything man. This shit is rough............

If you have the right Doc, one who knows how to use Test, HCG and an AI when called for, this can be rather easy to tell you the truth. The problem is that there are Docs out there who don't know what they are doing and end up hurting men...not good in my opinion.

Oh BTW, I wouldn't do another injection unless you get on an AI. You are going to feel really bad and can get hurt with high E2 levels.

[JD250]

Research Dr. Crislers protocols, maybe print off some info and take it to your doctor and see if you can get this thing back onto the middle of the road, Test, anastrozol, hcg.......research how it's used and present this to your doctor. I must've missed the part about 400mgs of test......don't do that! Don't worry bro, it does get better but you must educate yourself and sometimes your doctor too.

150mgs ew of test....... along with 250units eod of hcg ........and .25 mgs eod of anastrozol ........that's a vague rule of thumb......your doses should be dialed in and determined by blood tests after you've been on a protocol for 6 weeks or so.

The point was made by gdevine that we aren't doctors..........that's worth keeping in mind......these are general suggestions.

[Titleesq]

I just got a phone call from the doc. I suggested adding an AI and/or some hCG to the protocol, and she shut me down. Her response was that she wants me to continue with the Test Cyp EOW (so my next inject will be Monday), and that she doesn't want to "muck up the waters" (her words), by adding anything else at this time. It is her opinion that I continue on this course for awhile to see if everything "stabilizes". If it does not, then she will consider changing the protocol. In all honesty, I am SCARED SHITLESS to take that inject by itself. My biggest concern at the moment is that b/c of the high E levels, the majority of the T that I shoot will convert to E, leaving me with an even higher Estradiol level, and feeling way worse than I already do.

AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Thanks again to all who have chimed in with advice.

[Ratt]

That's an absolute disgrace!!!!! These doctors need to get up to speed on hrt. The less educated they are the more the patient suffers.
You need to find a new doc or ask to refered to an Urologist.
Do you have med insurance or do you pay out of pocket?
You may want to look into a HRT clinics in your area.
Not sure if you have heard about Maximus HRT but if you live in the US they can treat you. I haven't heard anything negative about them.
I would try to call you doc and see if she would be will to do weekly shots at 100mg. Also you need to start an AI to get your E2 within range. The 200mg EOW is will raise both your t and E2 levels peaking at day 4-5 and then drop over the next 9 days.
Did you get your free and total T results yet?
Best lof luck, your not alone. There are a number of guys who have had the same challenges as you and are happy they stuck with it.
Take care and keep us posted.

[zaggahamma]

That's an absolute disgrace!!!!! These doctors need to get up to speed on hrt. The less educated they are the more the patient suffers.
You need to find a new doc or ask to refered to an Urologist.
Do you have med insurance or do you pay out of pocket?
You may want to look into a HRT clinics in your area.
Not sure if you have heard about Maximus HRT but if you live in the US they can treat you. I haven't heard anything negative about them.
I would try to call you doc and see if she would be will to do weekly shots at 100mg. Also you need to start an AI to get your E2 within range. The 200mg EOW is will raise both your t and E2 levels peaking at day 4-5 and then drop over the next 9 days.
Did you get your free and total T results yet?
Best lof luck, your not alone. There are a number of guys who have had the same challenges as you and are happy they stuck with it.
Take care and keep us posted.

he has the medicine at home!!!!!!!!

titleist....do 100mg ew or 90mgew then the e2 wont rise as much...e2 at 70 isnt going to be a problem short term...and with the smaller dose you prolly wont be that high...

[Ratt]

he has the medicine at home!!!!!!!!

titleist....do 100mg ew or 90mgew then the e2 wont rise as much...e2 at 70 isnt going to be a problem short term...and with the smaller dose you prolly wont be that high...

jp,
Can't believe I missed that!

Titleesq,

jp summed it up perfectly, 100mg/week is the way to go at this point. It's not like your adding more over the course of the 2 week period, you are just adjusting the frequency.

[steroid.com 1]

His E2 may drop a little on 100 EW but he's still aromatizing and until he's below 30 most of what he injects will still convert. Remember, this is the Quack that put him on 200 mg of Test with NO LABS!!!

He needs to find a new Doc right away.

[lifter65]

just get some liquidex

[zaggahamma]

just get some liquidex

good catch lifter...

u can get liquidex fast from THIS site

here..

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[Titleesq]

I really think that I must be losing some brain cells or something b/c I totally forgot that my mother in law's brother in law is an Endo in OH. Had a talk with him this afternoon and I decided that I am going to go against Drs. orders and inject 100mg EW as opposed to her suggested treatment plan of 200mg EOW. I have nothing to control E levels, and can't get anything in the foreseeable future, so hopefully this plan will stave off as much T from converting to E as possible. I spoke with him (the Endo) about the need for adding some hCG as well as adding an anti E, and he said not necessary. I know that he is an Endo, and this might sound kinda weird, but I kind of got the feeling that he was not as up to date on some of the trt protocols as a lot of members on here are. It was kind of a strange convo, but helped me to make a decision about the EW protocol.

gdevine:

I stated this in an earlier thread, but as soon as I discovered I had low T, the search was on for a specialist. I'm a 20 minute drive from John's Hopkins University, and so I did some research and scheduled an appt. with Dr. Adrian Dobs. Anyone heard of her? I asked the Endo in OH that I talked to today if he was familiar with her and he said that she is the top in the field. That's great and all I guess, but because of her high demand and expertise, the earliest appt. I could get was not until October. In the meantime I have been asking around town, and may (it's looking pretty good) have a hook-up who can either get me in to see Dobs much earlier, or find me someone just as good that could see me sooner.

Thanks everyone, and by the way, I LOVE THIS BOARD!!!!!!

[Titleesq]

good cathc lifter...

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here..

http://www.ar-r.com/?utm_source=ster...er%2B400x80%2B

Thanks a bunch JP. Excuse my ignorance, but is this stuff real pharmaceutical grade medicine or is it a supplement of some sort (like the kind that can be had at GNC)? What would be the proper dosing schedule of LiquiDex 30mL 1mg/mL along with 100mg Test Cyp EW? For that matter, there is a bunch of stuff on that site, and I don't want to order the wrong thing, so is this what I want: LiquiDex 30mL 1mg/mL? I definitely don't want to be ****ing around and take the wrong shit.

Thanks man.......

[zaggahamma]

Thanks a bunch JP. Excuse my ignorance, but is this stuff real pharmaceutical grade medicine or is it a supplement of some sort (like the kind that can be had at GNC)? What would be the proper dosing schedule of LiquiDex 30mL 1mg/mL along with 100mg Test Cyp EW? For that matter, there is a bunch of stuff on that site, and I don't want to order the wrong thing, so is this what I want: LiquiDex 30mL 1mg/mL? I definitely don't want to be ****ing around and take the wrong shit.

Thanks man.......

yeh that looks right...directions should come with the package ....i havent tried myself but have read countelss posts/ppl swear to its effectiveness and equal to arimidex....other will chime in on dose as well

[steroid.com 1]

I really think that I must be losing some brain cells or something b/c I totally forgot that my mother in law's brother in law is an Endo in OH. Had a talk with him this afternoon and I decided that I am going to go against Drs. orders and inject 100mg EW as opposed to her suggested treatment plan of 200mg EOW. I have nothing to control E levels, and can't get anything in the foreseeable future, so hopefully this plan will stave off as much T from converting to E as possible. I spoke with him (the Endo) about the need for adding some hCG as well as adding an anti E, and he said not necessary. I know that he is an Endo, and this might sound kinda weird, but I kind of got the feeling that he was not as up to date on some of the trt protocols as a lot of members on here are. It was kind of a strange convo, but helped me to make a decision about the EW protocol.

gdevine:

I stated this in an earlier thread, but as soon as I discovered I had low T, the search was on for a specialist. I'm a 20 minute drive from John's Hopkins University, and so I did some research and scheduled an appt. with Dr. Adrian Dobs. Anyone heard of her? I asked the Endo in OH that I talked to today if he was familiar with her and he said that she is the top in the field. That's great and all I guess, but because of her high demand and expertise, the earliest appt. I could get was not until October. In the meantime I have been asking around town, and may (it's looking pretty good) have a hook-up who can either get me in to see Dobs much earlier, or find me someone just as good that could see me sooner.

Thanks everyone, and by the way, I LOVE THIS BOARD!!!!!!

Do yourself a huge favor and have a consult with Dr. John Crisler. You have your BW and he will review them and tell you what you need to do and not in October. This Physician is the top in the field for TRT and mens health. It will be the best $195 you will ever spend on yourself.

Go here: http://www.allthingsmale.com/aoc.html

Also, read the links on this site as well; very informative (see his paper on HCG and see why the Endo you spoke to today is WRONG!). http://www.allthingsmale.com/publications.html

No surprise on the response from the Endo you spoke to; we've that scenario played out over and over again.

Talk to Dr. Crisler and do yourself a giant favor.

gd

[lifter65]

i agree with gdevine...see dr crisler, however he will not treat you unless you go to his office first, which is 495... you can most likely get in very soon
and liquidex is legit

[Glycomann]

I would guess you have a high carb diet. That effects blood lipids a lot and most physicians have been brain washed to think that it is a problem related to dietary fat so they tell you to cut fats and reduce cals and the problem gets worse. So then they put you on a statin and your problems multiply. I would suggest you cut down on carbs so you are around 200 grams a day. That should positively affect your triglycerides and probably your HDL/LDL somewhat.