Need help and no where to turn

[boxingfan30]

Hello to all. It's good to be here. I apologize if this has been asked before, but I think my situation is a bit unique, but forgive me if it's not.

I turned 33 years old just last week. For about 8 years now I have been into lifting and fitness in general. I love boxing ... hence my screen name, but I just do it for fun, but it's great cardio and has been a way for me to have fun and still do cardio.

My situation is this. Over the last year or 2 I noticed that I had started to become very aggressive. Not like getting into fights aggressive, but just a very short fuse. I had previously had an issue with anxiety and was even stuck in my home for about 10 years without being able to go more than about a quarter of a mile away.

I finally found a Doctor who was willing to come to my home and she got me to the point of being able to live a life. I now live with my Fiancee' and have a pretty much normal life, though I still am not fond of bridges.

My aggressiveness started at a very stressful time in my life... after I had gotten out of my home, but much of it revolves around the medications I had to take for panic, once the doses were lowered it greatly reduced. This will come into play later.

Over the past year I have noticed that I have just felt very lazy... I always wanted to be doing something, but I felt so low in energy, my body just feels pretty weak, it seems like things hurt more than they used to, I eat the same way but seem to easily gain fat around the midsection, of course I just cut my calories even more to compensate, I told my Fiancee last week that "I just didn't feel good". My vision is starting to also get a little worse which I know is part of aging, but it sucks either way. When I looked up my symptoms, they all pointed to low GH.

I went over my most recent blood work which was done 6 months-1 year ago. My total test was 670, but I did not have my free test results. My most recent free test results are more than a year ago, but they were 1.7 and 1.6 the following time.

Off to searching I went and did a lot on HGH as well as just test and different types of steroids .

There is a history of cancer in the family so any kind of HGH is likely not a good idea and so I had decided against that.

Testosterone Enanthate looked to be like a good idea for a while, but then as I had stated from before with my previous temper problems that was not going to be a good idea either.

Now I know many of you are probably going to say or are thinking that my numbers look pretty good ... I agree that they do. However, here is my problem and another reason I am considering some sort of HRT.

When I was born, my Doctors actually thought I was going to be a dwarf... I had a soft spot in my head until I was 5 years old, I didn't lose my first tooth until I was 8 years old. I was deemed "a slow developer". I was the last kid in school to grow very tall. I didn't reach my current height until I was around 20 years old. While for my size I was considered by most to be a pretty strong guy, my amount of muscle on my body wasn't much and everything I have now I had to work very hard to get.

As a result of some of my slow developer issues, I have scoliosis as well as a bad shoulder that has a misshapen socket that cannot take anymore lifting. I will do push-ups, but can only do them with my hands in 1 particular position and even then the next day I feel at least a little pain.

The shoulder must have surgery (Glenoid Osteotomy) ... where they will basically have to take my shoulder, make it normal and take a piece of bone from my hip to do it. The surgery isn't anything i'm worried about, the recovery will be long and probably pretty painful which is also fine.

What will not be fine is the muscle wasting and fat gain that will happen while I have to sit around and do nothing. If I cannot lift, my test levels will also likely drop more. It makes me sick just thinking about it. I had to lose 50 lbs years ago and I don't want to have to go through with that again.

I am asking for help with what might be best for me. I have had full bloodwork done and am awaiting the results which I should get in the next few days (8 vials of blood they took!!).

Anavar seemed to be a possible good choice because it's very mild, it doesn't seem to cause aggression, some liver toxcidity, which I plan on taking milk thistle and perhaps some others.

My diet is in check with carbs being kept low, protein kept high and fats are all good fats.

I take a Multi-vitamin, ALA, Ubiquinol 200 mg 1x daily, fish oil 3,000 per day, garlic, and vitamin C with rose hips 1000 mg 2x daily.

Please, I understand this is my first and very long post, but I need good solid advice and would like comments from those who have used what I am asking about and/or something else that might be good for my situation. I don't want to take massive doses of the stuff, I don't want to be huge or anything of the sort. I enjoy being thin, lean and fit. Anavar seemed to fit that bill in helping me with my goals especially through recovery. My other question however is would it help with my other symptoms?

Thank you all for any help you can recommend.

[boxingfan30]

I forgot to add among some of the symptoms I am experiencing that morning erections are non existant and hardness sort of comes and goes.

[boxingfan30]

wow, no one? I am that bad off.

[Bigfoot66]

I'm going to take a stab at this but there are some other routine posters on here who know what they are talking about. They will step in.

Prior to TRT my I did not have the aggression you talk about. Had similar symptoms to you but not to the extreme you described. Yes your T level seems adequate but everyone's levels are not the same when it comes to what's. Considered normal. I take 200 mg weekly with an AI to keep my levels at the top of what's normal for my age. Anything less and I began to become lethargic and lose the mass I gained.

Find a reputable MD who will hear what you are saying. You may find that your mental dilemma is all because of a hormone deficiency.

Hope this helps.

[JD250]

Get a total blood panel done with sensetivity e2 test............your numbers don't mean anything as is......just because your total test seems OK doesn't mean that your e2 isnt way out of whack.......thyroid? There's are 4 pages of tests that are relatively important to understanding what is wrong with you.......if you don't have this info you are only guessing, sorry I know thats not what you wanted to hear but that's what is needed.

[boxingfan30]

No that's cool man, I appreciate any info I can get. They called me today and I asked about my total test which was now at 647 from 670... of course I know that can change just throughout the day, so i'm not putting much on that... they are mailing me a copy of everything else. She said everything was in the "normal" range... I am beginning to HATE that word.

[devildog1967]

Whats normal for one is not necessary normal for the next person . We are all individuals and different and not clones .

[Ryanmcd]

It sucks but you are going to have to do some work, I had to get a expert involved to work on my case Dr John Crisler, look him up he's good and has lots of free papers to read that can help you.

[boxingfan30]

Thanks for the advice so far all. I appreciate it.

My Dr's office called me and told me my liver function is up about 3 times what it was from my last test which was about as I said earlier 6 months - 1 year ago. I have been drinking probably a gallon of diet soda for a while, I was taking Arginine 6-12 g's a day with Orinthine about 5 g's a day as well. I was told to stop both of those supplements.

I am going to stop the diet soda drinking as well as the 2 aminos and see if that helps. I haven't been doing anything else to bring up liver function. It could have just been a random fluke when it came to the test. My pharmacist even said that the local spraying for mosquitos here could cause higher numbers.

Anyway, i'm pretty sure with these few changes that things will come down. I have to go back in 2 weeks to get retested, so we'll see what happens.

In the meantime... keep any other ideas coming! Thanks all

[devildog1967]

Milk thistle will help

[boxingfan30]

yeah i'm going to get some of that... any brand will work or is one any better than the other really?

I would just like to know what caused it to go up so much. Everyone's body does work differently I know so maybe the Arginine and Orinthine just isn't something my body tolerates well.

[devildog1967]

Milk thistle is milk thistle .. Go for the highest strength you can get, I take 2 a day. Just stop all other pills and let your liver time to recover , They say it takes upto 6 months to get your liver back to normal as its the only organ that heals.

[boxingfan30]

stop all other supplements too? By the way, is it possible that R-ALA 3x a day at 100 mg's each would cause it?

[boxingfan30]

By the way devildog... thanks for all of the info. I have to go to smart and im going to pick up some milk thistle while im there and check how much I can take when I get home.. im interested if you do think I should stop all supplements completely. Im not taking any ibuprofen .. only as needed and even then its only one. Trying to up water intake and slow down aspartame and/or splenda. Honestly though water such as deerpark makes my stomach feel sort of upset. Home filtered water works better for me tbh.

[boxingfan30]

After getting a full nights sleep.. only waking up one time and went back to sleep within 10 minutes or so, I still feel pretty exhausted. I'm getting quite impatient and tired (no pun intended) of feeling like this ... at 33 years old this is pretty ridiculous.

I went and got the Milk thistle today... the directions say to take 2 tabs 2 times a day, so that's what I will do. My phamacist asked if there were any thyroid issues or anything of the sort... I said no that everything was perfectly normal. She feels the test may have just been a fluke and that the next one will come back normal. Still I will stay off of the arginine and orinthine and do not plan on going back on it.

I also spoke with her about using some sort of test. She said they had a pill that can be put under the tongue and that it was faily new. I told her to be honest, i'd rather give myself a shot once a week or whatever I need.

After I find out more about the liver issue, I let her know that whether my doctor will prescribe me something or not doesn't matter, as all of the things I am experiencing right now are low test symptoms and there is no denying. I have to do what I must and I will inform my Doctor that I am planning on going on something one way or the other. I'm not going to work my a@@ off all over again with my body not functioning as well as it could be and with surgery not far off, I want to cut the fat off that I have now quickly and not have to work 4 times harder because my test isn't where it should be.

Sorry all... been a VERY frustrating day for me.

[Bigfoot66]

I guess I'd question the validity of having to get off of T prior to surgery. To me being on T during the recovery period would be better on you than not.

Also, insist that a PT begin work with you immediately. When you're with him/her for your therapy, ask if they can work in a workout program with you so that you don't lose your mass while maintaining your shoulder.

I do agree that you'd go crazy sitting around doing nothing but worrying about losing your mass...I'd hope that your MD and PT would see your concern enough to consult about a solution that would benefit both. Good luck!

After getting a full nights sleep.. only waking up one time and went back to sleep within 10 minutes or so, I still feel pretty exhausted. I'm getting quite impatient and tired (no pun intended) of feeling like this ... at 33 years old this is pretty ridiculous.

I went and got the Milk thistle today... the directions say to take 2 tabs 2 times a day, so that's what I will do. My phamacist asked if there were any thyroid issues or anything of the sort... I said no that everything was perfectly normal. She feels the test may have just been a fluke and that the next one will come back normal. Still I will stay off of the arginine and orinthine and do not plan on going back on it.

I also spoke with her about using some sort of test. She said they had a pill that can be put under the tongue and that it was faily new. I told her to be honest, i'd rather give myself a shot once a week or whatever I need.

After I find out more about the liver issue, I let her know that whether my doctor will prescribe me something or not doesn't matter, as all of the things I am experiencing right now are low test symptoms and there is no denying. I have to do what I must and I will inform my Doctor that I am planning on going on something one way or the other. I'm not going to work my a@@ off all over again with my body not functioning as well as it could be and with surgery not far off, I want to cut the fat off that I have now quickly and not have to work 4 times harder because my test isn't where it should be.

Sorry all... been a VERY frustrating day for me.

[boxingfan30]

Thanks for the comment bigfoot. What do you, or anyone else reading think about using a short cycle of Deca to help with recovery? I know a guy who is into the pro bodybuilding thing and he suggested this to help speed the healing. Obviously i'm not just going to be stupid and take one persons word for it, but from what i've read... it does seem to be helpful to those who have had injuries and/or surgeries.

[Jredwine]

Wow boxing fan didnt know you had all that going on! I dont know about that short deca cyle, unless you want to drop your test levels even more. Most dont like a deca only cycle since it's not very androgenic . Your few nocturnal erections will turn into non-existent penis syndrome on a deca only cycle. Plus, with the ease and bioidentical nature of enanthate or cypionate , not to mention you can find the $hit everywhere, I'd roll with Test before deca or anything else.

It sounds like a lot of your issues are psych right now. Have you ever tried an SSRI? Man I hated the thought of taking "crazy meds", but these things just work for me when I need them. I get angry, irritated, and just fly off the handle for no good reason. It did cause me problems. I blasted some kid at the bar one night and I knew it was time to get "back on". I can take any SSRI and feel better in almost hours. I really seem to respond well to these. They just help me roll with the punches. I don't fell numb or any of that BS they say about these, I just feel normal and good. I will usually take them for 90 days minimum and I always just stop cold turkey. Never had a problem yet.

Well good luck man!

[boxingfan30]

Wow boxing fan didnt know you had all that going on! I dont know about that short deca cyle, unless you want to drop your test levels even more. Most dont like a deca only cycle since it's not very androgenic . Your few nocturnal erections will turn into non-existent penis syndrome on a deca only cycle. Plus, with the ease and bioidentical nature of enanthate or cypionate , not to mention you can find the $hit everywhere, I'd roll with Test before deca or anything else.

It sounds like a lot of your issues are psych right now. Have you ever tried an SSRI? Man I hated the thought of taking "crazy meds", but these things just work for me when I need them. I get angry, irritated, and just fly off the handle for no good reason. It did cause me problems. I blasted some kid at the bar one night and I knew it was time to get "back on". I can take any SSRI and feel better in almost hours. I really seem to respond well to these. They just help me roll with the punches. I don't fell numb or any of that BS they say about these, I just feel normal and good. I will usually take them for 90 days minimum and I always just stop cold turkey. Never had a problem yet.

Well good luck man!

Thanks man... yeah, there's been a lot happen to me throughout the last few years... but the worst part is behind me I feel.

Yes I am on SSRI's ... 2 actually.. I take effexor 37.5 mg's a day which is the lowest dose because it was causing a lot of my aggression. When I cut the dose down, much of the aggression went with it.

I also take 20 mg's of cymbalta which is basically because I can't take a higher dosage of the other. I take Klonopin as needed to anxiety or panicky type feeling times... but even at that I am allowed to take up to 4 g's a day, but most of the time I only take a pill in the morning and then sometimes at night, but that's only to keep me sort of level and helps with any sort of mild side effects I get from not taking it... headaches, etc.

Overall, the therapist has cut my visits down from once a week to once a month, as she doesn't feel that I am a danger to others any longer. My lifestyle was the biggest part of it, I was still living at home and was in a bad relationship, now i'm living with my Fiancee who is very very supportive and just that kind of person you just can't be mean to even if you tried you know? Definitely a lucky man there.

I asked about the Deca like I said mainly because someone had mentioned something to me about it and the guy is very into lifting and steroids and such... but i'm not interested in taking them for the sake of taking them like some, which is ok for them if that's what they are into... I just want to be able to feel normal, be able to get harder erections, wake up with morning wood lol not eat one thing and be able to almost see the fat go right to my midsection and honestly, my free test has declined with each blood test. First it was 1.7 then 1.6 and i'm almost betting it will be lower yet again.

One particular person I spoke with who is quite an expert on the subject said that at 1.5 or below and something mild should be done to at least be above 1.5. I don't know if this is true or now as I am just starting much of my research, but I know that as it's gone down I have felt worse, even with the total test staying around the mid 600's.

[boxingfan30]

Update: Well I took another set of blood tests today as the lab seemed to mess something up with the results for the free test as well as GH test. I needed to get my liver rechecked again anyway though. The results should be back next week by Tuesday.

For the last few weeks since they told me that my liver function was high I started using the elliptical here at home.. it's just a Gold's Gym version, but it gets the job done. I do 30 minutes on level 6 (highest is level 9) and it SAYS I am burning about 500 calories, however I know that's very unlikely and at the very best it's 350-400... I do pretty intense workouts though. I was hoping this would maybe give me a bit of a boost in energy, but to no avail.

I was able to get to sleep pretty early last night and sleep pretty much through the night. I went, had my blood taken and came back home. My Fiancee' said... "see, I told you that you could sleep through the night and all you needed to do was get to bed" I was taking a nap about 20 or 30 minutes later... completely exhausted. I slept for about 2 hours I guess... when I woke up I was still tired.

My scale says pretty much no for 2 and a half to 3 weeks of the 30 minutes of cardio 5-6 days a week, plus lowering calories, timing meals before exercise etc. My Fiancee' said my legs look more full and that my body is looking leaner though. My hip bones are starting to come back out and the veins in my lower abs are peaking out as well.

I am guessing the weight may be shifting a little into my legs. I NEVER worked legs and so maybe they are putting a little bit of size back on from muscle loss from before.

Nothing has changed as far as morning erections or keeping them during sex, while sometimes it's fine and others it's not. I can go 30 minutes or an hour and then others after just a few minutes no more wood

[boxingfan30]

Ok guys... for those of you who have responded or followed my thread... my labs came back. My doctor emailed me today. My total test is mid to high, my free is just "ok" mt total free however is indeed low. I knew something wasn't right and it appears I was correct. She wants me to make an appt with an endo and urologist ... what is the urologist going to do if this is caused by low t?
Anyway I don't have the lab report yet so I don't know the exact numbers. For a family doc to say its low however, it must be pretty far down.
Thoughts or opinions?

[bigboy67]

nobody will likely have much to say until you post lab numbers

[boxingfan30]

I am hoping that they will mail them to me soon. They usually do but ill see tomorrow about getting them mailed out. I'm just relieved in a way though... at least there is an explanation. If total is mid to high .. how would I raise only the total free?

[boxingfan30]

ok guys here are my test numbers ...


Testosterone

796

249 - 836 normal

ng/dL



***Effective October 17, 2011 Testosterone, Serum
reference interval for Adult Male will be changing
to 348-1197.



Testost., % Free&Weakly Bound

8.6

9.0 - 46.0 normal

%



Testost., F&W Bound

68.5

40.0 - 250.0 normal

ng/dL

Total test has never been this high that I recall. I feel completely exhausted today

[boxingfan30]

Growth Hormone

0.2

0.0 - 2.9

ng/mL


BUN

26

5 - 25

mg/dl



Sodium

141

135 - 146

mmols/L



Potassium, Bld

4.0

3.2 - 5.0

mmols/L



Chloride

108

95 - 112

mmols/L



CO2

25

18 - 32

mmols/L



Glucose, Bld

78

70 - 115

mg/dl



Creatinine

1.1

0.5 - 1.5

mg/dl



Calcium

9.4

8.1 - 10.2

mg/dl



AST

340

10 - 40

IU/L



ALT

127

4 - 44

IU/L



Alkaline Phosphatase

34

21 - 132

IU/L



Total Bilirubin

0.8

0.3 - 1.3

mg/dl



Total Protein

7.3

5.7 - 8.1

gm/dl



Albumin

4.5

3.2 - 5.0

gm/dl



Calcium Ion Calc

4.6

4.1 - 5.5

mg/dl

I think one of these is the liver ... I guess the really high ones... but that was being rechecked and I will post it later on as I had been on high doses of Arginine and Orinthine for 1.5-2 weeks.

Magnesium

2.2

1.0 - 2.3

mg/dL

Amylase

52

20 - 90

U/L




Lipase

28

12 - 53

U/L




WBC

7.8

4.8 - 10.8

10^3/uL



RBC

4.67

4.50 - 5.90

10^6/uL



Hemoglobin

14.1

13.5 - 17.1

gm/dl



Hematocrit

41.0

41.0 - 51.0

%



MCV

87.8

81.0 - 99.0

fl



MCH

30.2

28.0 - 32.0

pg



MCHC

34.4

32.0 - 36.0

g/dL



Platelets

208

150 - 350

10^3/uL



MPV

10.0

7.4 - 10.4





Neutrophils Relative

48.8

50 - 70

%



Lymphocytes Relative

36.3

20 - 40

%



Monocytes Relative

7.7

2 - 11

%



Eosinophils Relative

6.6

1 - 3

%



Basophils Relative

0.3

0 - 1

%



Immature Granulocytes Percent

0.3

0 - 0.4

%



Neutrophils Absolute

3.8

1.8 - 7.7

10^3/uL



Lymphocytes Absolute

2.8

1.0 - 4.8

10^3/uL



Monocytes Absolute

0.6

0.1 - 1.4

10^3/uL



Eosinophils Absolute

0.51

0.0 - 0.3

10^3/uL



Basophils Absolute

0.02

0 - 0.2

10^3/uL



Immature Granulocytes Absolute

0.02

0 - 0.03

10^3/uL



RDW

12.6

<16.5



TSH

1.004

0.35 - 5.50

uIU/mL

FSH

7.2

1.4 - 18.1

mIU/mL

LH

6.04

0.5 - 76.3

mIU/ml

[bigboy67]

dude, your liver numbers are in outer space!

[boxingfan30]

yep, I am waiting to get the new numbers back and I think they will be much better. No pain or anything from them though.

[JD250]

% of free test is low?...........uuuugh you're killin us here, where is your estrodial score???

[boxingfan30]

I don't know, i'll have to look and see if it's there. I've got an appointment with an Endo in November anyway, so i'm sure much more blood work will be done.

[boxingfan30]

It's not anywhere on the test.

[boxingfan30]

UPDATE:

I got my liver tests back, which had been high. As I has suspected... the test was either a fluke or the Arginine did indeed bring it up. New results:


Total Protein

6.8

6.0 - 8.5

g/dL



Albumin

4.9

3.5 - 5.5

g/dL



Total Bilirubin

0.6

0.0 - 1.2

mg/dL



Bilirubin, Direct

0.15

0.00 - 0.40

mg/dL



Alkaline Phosphatase

37

25 - 150

IU/L



AST

21

0 - 40

IU/L



ALT

19

0 - 55

IU/L

[boxingfan30]

ok, well I went to a urologist today to look over my tests and see what he thought. He was a nice guy and seemed fairly educated. I told him that Arginine had helped with the workouts that I was able to do and with the wood, I told him about the tiredness and the other symptoms etc.

Ultimately after I told him my liver function had gone up when I used Arginine before (of course I have no proof that was the cause and it's not supposed to be toxic) his solution was to take 3 grams of Arginine in the A.M and P.M. He gave me no reasons as to why I could be tired... feel worn down etc. He just said that my test levels were "normal" I really hate that word by the way. My numbers aren't exactly normal... the free test has been low in the past and is hanging between normal and low now. Free total is low, so it's not normal.

I don't really care what makes me feel better, just as long and I can feel more normal. I've been going to a therapist for a few years and she moved back my appointments from once a week to once a month. I don't believe the problem is pschological and neither does my therapist.

I go to an Endocrinologist on the 5th and hopefully he will find out what the issue now is.

[lovbyts]

Make sure you get your E2 levels check next time. keep us updated

[boxingfan30]

I would imagine the Endo would know to do this, but I am going to make a note of it so I don't forget to ask him.

[boxingfan30]

Doctor told me today to NOT take the Arginine... I guess she doesn't want to run the risk of it driving up my liver function again. A shame too because I was going to try Anavar for a few weeks after seeing the Endo and check my blood after 2 weeks or so.

[boxingfan30]

Update: Well I went to the Endo today.. he seemed like a very sharp guy. He looked at my test levels and felt they were pretty normal. I told him my total test level had only risen since I was using the elliptical 6 days a week that that I was assuming that because I was able to work my legs that it gave me a test jump from the previous blood test that was mid 600's.

They took some blood checking IGF-1, B12 and a few others that I don't know what they were. When I ask him about checking the Estrodial he said "no we don't need to check that unless you're growing boobs"... I felt that was pretty odd.

I also asked him if he expected my test levels to drop back after I continued to do my cardio... which he didn't think so.

He, like the urologist gave me that whole thing about anxeity. I'm quite frustrated about that. I KNOW what anxeity is, I was stuck in my home for 10 years with panic attacks so bad I couldn't hardly go out to cut my grass. If they don't feel my test levels are a problem then that's fine and good news, but there is something causing it and the therapist doesn't feel I have anxeity other than with certain objects... but not overall.

So i'm left again with little when it comes to answers about why I feel like sh*t all the time, some bloodwork I am waiting on, and a jug to collect piss in for the next 24 hours... can't say i'm very happy with the overall way this is going.

[boxingfan30]

So what do you guys think? Was the Endo correct about not wanting to test the E2?

I'm simply concerned that he is looking at the total test that has risen since working my legs on the elliptical, but will those numbers stay elevated or will my legs grow to a certain point, get used to it and my total test goes back down to 650's again? Which is ok don't get me wrong, but the total free and % free one being a little low and the other on the low side of normal .... should those numbers be higher on a percentage base?

I'm quite lost here with all of this tbh.