Addming Deca

[StevePJC]

Doc has me on 150mg Test E every week. Don't get me wrong she's a GREAT doc to let me handle my own injects but as far as E2 and anything else is concerned I'm on my own.

I have a bunch of old injuries from my former profession and inquired about adding deca . No dice so I'm on my own. Have found myself access to it and am likely going to start at 100mg EW

Was hoping to find some folks here who have recent experience with using it. I've found some old stuff that was quite helpful but I'm always up for recent first hand experiences.

[JD250]

Lots of posts about it in recent days, should show up in a search. Can't remember the threads off hand but they'll come up.

[Cravenmorehead]

Generic adequan from a vet is good for joints........deca might bloat you out?.......

[bass]

worked real well for me at 100mgs per week, lots of pain relief on my shoulder! if thats you in the avi you look thick, but also looks like you're carrying lots of fat, just make sure you get you e2 in check and you should be fine at these doses. 150 test ew is a decent dose! keep us posted!

[zaggahamma]

your gonna love it

i did

100-200mg g2g

please update in this thread when you start and as you progress

[StevePJC]

worked real well for me at 100mgs per week, lots of pain relief on my shoulder! if thats you in the avi you look thick, but also looks like you're carrying lots of fat, just make sure you get you e2 in check and you should be fine at these doses. 150 test ew is a decent dose! keep us posted!

That is me in the avatar yes albeit about 8 years ago. I had to get my e2 checked on my own. Doc refused to do it. I've been working to find a happy medium because it was off the charts.

My doc knows I have a long history with aas and has let me dictate pretty much what I wanted to do. She wasn't comfortable with weekly so she wrote my script for 300mg every two weeks. She made it clear that if I split it she wouldn't be upset. Levels sit at 955 as of two months ago. A little higher than she liked but kept the script the same.

I'm hoping that when I start the deca that it will take the edge off the old bumps and bruises and let me do a little more in the exercise department. The e2 has always been the challenge.

[kelkel]

Labcorp T ref ranges have increased as of 10/17/11. Now 348-1197. Your in range!
You will love the D!

Keep us posted.

[zaggahamma]

Labcorp T ref ranges have increased as of 10/17/11. Now 348-1197. Your in range!
You will love the D!

Keep us posted.

for the heck of it i went back over all my old bloodwork and noticed that i had a endo do bloodwork "in house" ..i guess the test it there and the range on that sheet went to 1600ng/dl

[bass]

for the heck of it i went back over all my old bloodwork and noticed that i had a endo do bloodwork "in house" ..i guess the test it there and the range on that sheet went to 1600ng/dl

1600?! i wonder what was that based on! i know the more they learn about testosterone treatment in TRT users the more they are excepting it based on the results!

[StevePJC]

Well deca finally arrived. Did my first poke at 125mg. Going to stick with this dose and hope for the best as far as the aches and pains go.

[zaggahamma]

1600?! i wonder what was that based on! i know the more they learn about testosterone treatment in TRT users the more they are excepting it based on the results!

just saw this post...yeh...i never noticed before..to me the fact that ranges are different are mind boggling...when using the same measurements it makes NO SENSE to have different ranges

Well deca finally arrived. Did my first poke at 125mg. Going to stick with this dose and hope for the best as far as the aches and pains go.

good luck bro

[Vettester]

Steve, how long are you planning to cycle the deca for? I am running another 12 week cycle with my TRT regiment at this time. I have found that the results are noticeable at 200mg/wk, but everyone is different. Do yourself a favor and keep an eye on your prolactin score, and keep some prami or caber on hand. I started adding just a little liquid prami a few times a week at night, and have zero of the sexual sides that are associated with deca.

[StevePJC]

12 weeks is what I had planned. Hadn't planned on going above the 125mg. I want to stay as far away from the sides as possible but get as much of the benefit as I can.

[xelnaga]

@ Steve - What are you stats?

[StevePJC]

Not near what they should be if I was doing this to try and get some gains muscularity wise.

[bass]

12 weeks is what I had planned. Hadn't planned on going above the 125mg. I want to stay as far away from the sides as possible but get as much of the benefit as I can.

i did 300 then 200 then 100 mgs deca along with my TRT protocol, there was no noticeable difference in terms of gains, but felt much better on low dose of 100 ew and got great joint pain relief. the only negative side i got when i was on 300 mgs erection got weaker!

[flatscat]

Steve, how long are you planning to cycle the deca for? I am running another 12 week cycle with my TRT regiment at this time. I have found that the results are noticeable at 200mg/wk, but everyone is different. Do yourself a favor and keep an eye on your prolactin score, and keep some prami or caber on hand. I started adding just a little liquid prami a few times a week at night, and have zero of the sexual sides that are associated with deca.

Vette what was ur prami dose? That stuff wore me out. Way sick to m,,y stom?ach. And way drowsy.

[StevePJC]

Well I thought I'd pop back in here for an update.

7 weeks ago I suffered a pulmonary embolism and almost died. Well not almost I was brought back after about a minute when I went out after the emts got here and administered the clot busters.

After a ton of testing and bloodwork the docs noticed I had large levels of nandrolone in my system and blamed that for the event. Apparently I was not active enough in my daily life to avoid the clotting side effects of the deca .

Enjoying life after one hell of a sobering experience

[yannick35]

Deca is not a cure all sadly, i am using a cycle right now of deca, test E and used equipoise .

Combined with prolotherapy. It worked very good to repair, i am not finished yet either. I have reseached this subject to death actually talking to many people in the gym that did this.

What i can tell you is this. Most people i have spoken to lift heavy weights so i am not suprised that after there cycle the pain comes back.

I heard its great for tendonis, but not sure if it really repairs tissue like ligaments and tendons.

Some website say yes other say no. I was on 10 week in and i started using methyl D so i stopped deca for now.

I will post a full resume of what happened after i finish my 20 weeks. So far prolotherapy is shinning with a steroid cycle.

[JD250]

Were you pinning the 125mgs you mentioned, I think something smells fishy with the diagnosis......but I'm not as smart as a doctor.

[Herman Munster]

Am I understanding correctly; the OP had a blood clot and subsequent embolisim from 125mg EW of Deca ? I found the below text on a search, I always believed the warnings as to be a CYA and intended for those pinning high AAS doses. Dam, I was contemplating a small Deca cycle, that post makes me nervous.

"Nandrolone is generally a safe drug when used at low doses. However, it still has the potential to cause liver damage and all users must get their liver enzymes checked out regularly. One other serious complication of nandrolone is that it can cause blood clots in the legs which can travel to your lungs. Many cases of pulmonary embolism have been reported. So if you take nandrolone, you should be aware of the clot forming potential of this drug. The two ways to prevent clot formation are to remain active or stop taking the drug."

[StevePJC]

Yes I was pinning. In the 3 weeks prior I had actually upped it to an even 200mg. I thought I was active enough in my daily life. Apparently not. The cardiologist and primary care docs all are pointing directly at the nandrolone . I'm no doctor either but hell. It sucks that it happened because I was feeling outstanding on it. I know there are conflicting beliefs on its benefits for pain and whatnot but I firmly believe it was the reason I was feeling so good. Being told they had to bring in the crash cart and go to chest compressions and a bag though was a sobering enough experience that I'm taking their word for it and sticking with my regular TRT.

My understanding is that my labs didn't have any other pointers as to why it happened. When my wife told them I had been using deca on a low dose they tested for it and the levels (Gonna find my paperwork and find the exact numbers) were high enough that they blamed it. Is it a BS scapegoat? Maybe but hell after going through this, it scared me enough to just take their word for it and drive on.

[StevePJC]

Am I understanding correctly; the OP had a blood clot and subsequent embolisim from 125mg EW of Deca ? I found the below text on a search, I always believed the warnings as to be a CYA and intended for those pinning high AAS doses. Dam, I was contemplating a small Deca cycle, that post makes me nervous.

"Nandrolone is generally a safe drug when used at low doses. However, it still has the potential to cause liver damage and all users must get their liver enzymes checked out regularly. One other serious complication of nandrolone is that it can cause blood clots in the legs which can travel to your lungs. Many cases of pulmonary embolism have been reported. So if you take nandrolone, you should be aware of the clot forming potential of this drug. The two ways to prevent clot formation are to remain active or stop taking the drug."

Man if you do just be aware. I don't know your stats but for me, I don't have a low BF%. About 24% last checked. My physiology (Hope thats the right word) was just such that if they ARE right I was prime for the clots. Like I said, I'm taking their word for it. I did try and come up with ideas to up my activity levels and go back on but the wife threatened to take the kids and go. My intentons of updating this was in no way to scare anyone off. I am a VERY FIRM believer of the benefits of AAS. when i cycled before I was VERY active in my daily life. Today I consider myself active but like I said - If they are right, I wasn't active enough.

[kelkel]

Very interesting Steve. Glad your ok. I'm just curious if they're pointing the finger toward Deca as the culprit when there may be a variety of other causative factors as well. If you read the possible side effects of vitamin C you'd never want to use it. If aspirin just now came out it would be a controlled substance......

[Herman Munster]

Man if you do just be aware. I don't know your stats but for me, I don't have a low BF%. About 24% last checked. My physiology (Hope thats the right word) was just such that if they ARE right I was prime for the clots. Like I said, I'm taking their word for it. I did try and come up with ideas to up my activity levels and go back on but the wife threatened to take the kids and go. My intentons of updating this was in no way to scare anyone off. I am a VERY FIRM believer of the benefits of AAS. when i cycled before I was VERY active in my daily life. Today I consider myself active but like I said - If they are right, I wasn't active enough.

Steve,

As Kel stated, glad your OK and here to discuss this with us. Your avatar is very siilar to my current body, I'm also around 22-23%, last check at the doc had me at 22%. I was considering it to assist in taking the pain and edge off the joints that years of heavy lifting have created. I realize your story is not meant to scare, I take it as another factor to weigh in the decision process. The unquantified factor is the activity level, How active do you need to be? I find it hard to believe you were pinning and then taking a prone position on the couch. Do you think your past history of AAS contributed to this event? The proverbial straw that broke the camels back?

[doc w]

I'm calling the bs flag on ur physicians. As an Orthopaedics surgeon I live in the realm of prophylactic treatment of blood clots. There is no literature on medline to support nandrolone use increasing DVt risk, in fact it cAn increase bleeding times. I think ur other risk factors are probably more pertinent. Any family hx if DVt? Did they check factor five and protein c and s? We're u on an aroma taste inhibitor to decrease estrogen levels and finally do u smoke?

[yannick35]

I am a steroid noobie myself, but i reseached deca to death, for the same reason has you repair my body. The only negative thing i have been told about deca is the way it can play with your sanity. Its a feel good steroid but at some point everything can turnover and make you feel depressed. Now i am taking this with a grain of salt, i have been on deca at 200mg per week for 10 weeks now but i must admit some days i feel drained, no energy at all. Other days i feel great.

[doc w]

I correct myself. There is a single case report of a 55 yr old male with a PE after deca ( anecdotal medicine at best). A study from 1990 demonstrated a lowered blood clot risk with nandrolone .

[bass]

well deca will thicken your blood (RBC, hemoglobin and hematocrit) and thats how you could end up with clots, so one MUST donate blood on the regular basis to avoid this issue. also must make sure your platelets are in good shape before you run deca, platelets job is to prevent clots.

[Vettester]

^^ Was just going to point out what bass posted.

Of course the doctors see an increase in nandrolone , so they're going to point the finger at it. Most of those guys are so anti AAS that it will make your head spin. On the other hand, there's always going to be a risk with anything, like aspirin as mentioned above, and there's going to be the 1 in 10,000 that has some sort of negative, or even fatal reaction. I had an endo tell me that long term TRT would start giving people heart attacks. I'm not buying the scare tactics, especially from a guy who doesn't recognize estrogen conversion from testosterone .

[kelkel]

Good call doc! And welcome to the forum. Please stick around! I still think it's just too easy for them to point the finger at Deca . Kinda like Lyle Alzado's docs blaming steroids for everything.

I'm calling the bs flag on ur physicians. As an Orthopaedics surgeon I live in the realm of prophylactic treatment of blood clots. There is no literature on medline to support nandrolone use increasing DVt risk, in fact it cAn increase bleeding times. I think ur other risk factors are probably more pertinent. Any family hx if DVt? Did they check factor five and protein c and s? We're u on an aroma taste inhibitor to decrease estrogen levels and finally do u smoke?

[doc w]

Makes me irritated what his doctors told him. The paper the used was a case report from 2008 with an n of 1, one case does not equal science. He may have a familial clotting disorder which they may have completely ignored. Im not advocating him to restart deca but he should check his hemoglobin, start aspirin and may have to bleed himself once and a while. I would also demand the work up for clotting disorder.

[bass]

there was a study done where they found one thing in common in men who died from heart attack, low testosterone ! i believe some one here mentioned it and posted the link to the study.

[brazey]

A lot of guys with nagging injuries/joint pain have gone the peptide route and claim all their aches & pains have either gone or greatly diminished. Haven't used peptides myself but just throwing it out there for an alternative to nandrolone .

[StevePJC]

As Kel stated, glad your OK and here to discuss this with us. Your avatar is very siilar to my current body, I'm also around 22-23%, last check at the doc had me at 22%. I was considering it to assist in taking the pain and edge off the joints that years of heavy lifting have created. I realize your story is not meant to scare, I take it as another factor to weigh in the decision process. The unquantified factor is the activity level, How active do you need to be? I find it hard to believe you were pinning and then taking a prone position on the couch. Do you think your past history of AAS contributed to this event? The proverbial straw that broke the camels back?

I really don't know if my past history contributed. I'm still active in the gym with a M,T - Th-Fr split and can still do 405 on the flat bench for 8 reps. Now I didn't try for a max when using the deca this time but I did notice the bar a little easier to handle. Now when I used to cycle around 15 years ago I was on my feet alot BUT I DID travel about 250 days a year. You'd think if I was going to have a clotting problem I'd have had it then. Then again I was 6'1" 310 with 12% BF back then. Miss those days! I just think my body chemistry is such that if the docs are right I was just prime for it I guess.

I'm calling the bs flag on ur physicians. As an Orthopaedics surgeon I live in the realm of prophylactic treatment of blood clots. There is no literature on medline to support nandrolone use increasing DVt risk, in fact it cAn increase bleeding times. I think ur other risk factors are probably more pertinent. Any family hx if DVt? Did they check factor five and protein c and s? We're u on an aroma taste inhibitor to decrease estrogen levels and finally do u smoke?

Man am I glad somebody like you stepped in on this discussion. I looked through my discharge paperwork and thought that I had a brief lab number rundown. Going to get it Monday with my next checkup. I know that they didn't believe I was using the dose I said because the main cardiologist I dealt with claims the levels were too high for the dose. I got bitchy with him and asked how many cycles he had done in his life and the conversation went no where. My primary care doc who was SUPPORTIVE "unofficially" had done some "research" (As she put it) and was convinced that this time around the nandrolone is the prime culprit to the cause of the clots.

As far as my personal health habits - I've never been a smoker, drink a beer or two a year. I was taking arimidex to help control the already notorious E2 levels. Since I've been off I have lost 33 pounds (Obviously the vast majority being water) My diet isn't the best but then again I'm not really out to be chiseled. Never have been. I have a script for furo***ide that I take every two to four days to help keep the water levels down.

I have to add this - I asked my wife what she remembered from her conversations with docs when I was in ICU - She said one doc felt my previous steroid history made me a prime candidate for the clotting side effect. That's the first time I heard that. I don't even remember who she's talking about.

there was a study done where they found one thing in common in men who died from heart attack, low testosterone! i believe some one here mentioned it and posted the link to the study.

Read the same thing - With testim my levels barely went into the 300 range. Doc wasn't happy with that and neither was I. Was on cypionate for a while and then switched to enanthate and never felt better. I'm cleared to start pinning my prescribed TRT but now have warfrin because my legs are riddled with superficial thrombofelitis. 16 in the right leg and 11 in the left. Have to have some stripped out because they are damned painful. One on the ball of my foot.

well deca will thicken your blood (RBC, hemoglobin and hematocrit) and thats how you could end up with clots, so one MUST donate blood on the regular basis to avoid this issue. also must make sure your platelets are in good shape before you run deca, platelets job is to prevent clots.

My doc did a 4 week blood check and said everything looked fine. (3 weeks later I'm on the floor) Didn't give me particulars but "Unofficially" gave her blessing to continue. This woman is the best doc I have ever had and has let me control the direction of my TRT as long as my levels didn't sky rocket and stayed very close to normal on the high end; And I never asked for a refill before it was time. Until I find someone who can sit down with me and my labs and give me a better opinion or atleast an official second opinion on what could have caused the clotting.

I argued with the docs that they were too textbook oriented and believed the media too damned much. I even told one guy he was using the deca as a scapegoat to make his job easier. Wasn't the best patient. Was my wife and my primary care doc that convinced me that right now, with current physiology, that is the prime suspect. I had a round of tests done on my ticker including a stress test in September and everything was normal. As much as I hate to admit it I do see their point that 7 weeks in after starting deca (even the low dose) all hell broke loose.

[doc w]

I respectfully disagree with your primary care doctor and your wife. You can check the research on punned medline by searching nandrolone and pulmonary embolism. You will note a case report on one patient. Our doctors dish out Premarin and birth control like candy to which have known significant risk of thrombosis, yet no one thinks twice about that. As I said before I'm not advocating starting deca again but if they didn't look for a familial cause of your blood clots they should. Chronic coUmadin is no picnic either. Had a staff guy in residency who was on Coumadin, slipped on the ice and smashed his head. He was never the same after that

[StevePJC]

The only thing that runs in my family is low blood pressure on my moms side. I average 118 over 77. Based on your knowledge could that have any bearing on what happened?

I can't thank you enough for adding to this. I would love to restart the deca but I can't lie about the fact that after going through what I did Im scared to death to try.

[bass]

Steve i would love to see your blood work, the one your doc said everything is okay. can you post it here with ranges? if you don't have a copy you can always get it from your doc.

[lovbyts]

What a bunch of BS. So what do they tell all the 1000s of other guys that have the same thing happen to them that have NEVER taken any aas such as my co worker? He is active but also over weight, to much body fat. They blame it on anything they can or nothing at all. He didnt even have high cholesterol.

If you had never told them they would have never found it or come up with a reason, it just happens. Glad to hear you are doing better. Use the experience to change your diet and get the BF down because next time you may not be using anything at all and if you dont make it through it next time will it matter? Biggest risk factor is high body fat for heart attack or blood clot.

Good luck on whatever you decide to do in the future and good health.

[doc w]

I think the biggest disservice that could be done is that u believe this could be a one time event due to deca . The guys in this post are right, use this event as a fitness awakening. Get better control of your diet and increase your activity level. These are your greatest risk factors.