testosterone and food absorbtion, plus weight gain vs fat gains

[yannick35]

My medical doctor told me that in 6 months at a dosage of 250mg of testosterone injection every 10 days i should gain anywhere between 15 to 20 pounds.

He also told me that once testosterone is in the body the food absorbtion changes, and most of the food eaten is going toward muscles instead of fat storage.

This almost seems to good to be true. My diet is in check and i don't get the cravings i used to get when i did my first steroid cycle 12 years ago, but the dosage where very different where i was getting 500mg to 750mg of test E per week with deca and winstrol V in the mix.

The scary part for me is the weight gain, i am 5 feet 10 inches and around 215 pounds right now, problem is that i have a medium bone structure, and i should weight no more then 190 pounds tops.

Question is simple why do some people gain fat while on testosterone, that is what i read. I am also not sure i have carte blanche to eat anything on want just because i am on TRT.

[steroid.com 1]

My medical doctor told me that in 6 months at a dosage of 250mg of testosterone injection every 10 days i should gain anywhere between 15 to 20 pounds.

First, try splitting your dosage into 125 mg every five days (which is a lot to tell you the truth). Why is your Doc prescribing such a high dosage? As for weight gain, he's probably talking about gains in lean muscle mass but hitting 15 to 20 pounds is pure speculation as everyone is diifferent.

He also told me that once testosterone is in the body the food absorbtion changes, and most of the food eaten is going toward muscles instead of fat storage.

He's talking about increase in metabolic rate (especially resting!) which one could conclude would increase digestion rates.

This almost seems to good to be true. My diet is in check and i don't get the cravings i used to get when i did my first steroid cycle 12 years ago, but the dosage where very different where i was getting 500mg to 750mg of test E per week with deca and winstrol V in the mix.

Many men will see decrease in fat and increase in lean muscle mass when on a TRT protocol mostly due to the noted increase in resting metabolic rate. I know it seem to good to be true but for most men that is the exact outcome.

The scary part for me is the weight gain, i am 5 feet 10 inches and around 215 pounds right now, problem is that i have a medium bone structure, and i should weight no more then 190 pounds tops.

Weight gain will come in the form of increase lean muscle mass.

Question is simple why do some people gain fat while on testosterone, that is what i read. I am also not sure i have carte blanche to eat anything on want just because i am on TRT.

Can you please tell me the source for the "gain fat while on testosterone". You don't have carte blanche to eat anything you want if your intent is to decrease fat and increase lean muscle mass...common sense.

Did your physician talk to you about E2 management and the need for hCG. At 250 mg every 10 days you're likely to have elevated E2 issues.

[yannick35]

Can you please tell me the source for the "gain fat while on testosterone". You don't have carte blanche to eat anything you want if your intent is to decrease fat and increase lean muscle mass...common sense.

Did your physician talk to you about E2 management and the need for hCG. At 250 mg every 10 days you're likely to have elevated E2 issues.

gdevine thanks for all your replies, no man i am in deep waters here, the dosage which seems high to me too and i did ask him he said that a guy my size needs higher dosage. I asked about HGC and he told me for now its ok? he will test me in a month and yes i will be checked for E2 and testosterone level. He as been putting people on TRT for more then 15 years so i can thrust the man, but i will have questions to ask when i see him De***ber 7th.

I did increase protein in my diet because i have been told that testosterone will increase absorbation.

I guess that TRT is trial and error as well. For the source on fat gains will on testosterone i have seen many before and after pics on the internet, and read in many forums people who have increased fat weight while on testosterone. For me this was the scary part. I don't see myself adding an extra inch on my waiste, i am not asking for a 6 pack but a slime mid section would be nice.

[flatscat]

Your are probably talking about guys that are on a bulking cycle - some of them will eat EVERYTHING and take in enormous amounts of calories. And yes, they put on a ton of fat.

You can not just eat what you want while on trt. You do have to have some discipline - and the better your diet/training is, the better your trt will work.

High BF is one of the if not the worst enemy of anyone on trt.

Testosterone also increases your body's ability to process carbs - which is why it works nicely with a low carb/ carb cycling type of diet.

[yannick35]

flatscat i am on a semi low carb diet, i was a low carber but find it very hard to stick with ketosis, i have terrible effect when i am on ketosis and also lack of energy. Some people will do well on low carb i just don't no energy to train.

I know that fat gains have been a big issue in recent years, without going overboard on calories i have gone to 231 pounds this year, wish is not normal, i had to eat around 1000 calories a day and do some intermitent fasting to get down to 214 pounds and then stock.

Before i did my first steroid cycle i was 174 pounds, no abs but slim waiste i was 28 back then. After my steroid cycle i got up to 212 pounds yes a lot of it was fat, i was always hungry with testosterone enhantate at 500-750mg per week for 12 weeks.

After the cycle i was never ever able to get down again in weight, i was stuck at 212 and from that point on it was all the way up. This is why i fear of gaining weight while on test.

But now from reading your replies i feel kind of good, because like i said on really don't over eat, i am around 2000 cals per day, maybe 2400, but never over for a 215 pound guy.

My test must have been screwed up for a long time.

[flatscat]

sounds like it - and sounds like you are on your way to a new you.

keep the faith, fasting cardio in the morning does wonders too...

now get it done

[yannick35]

Yes but i have been told that fasting is not good, at least in my case, i am light anemia, this is yet another reason i have been put on TRT, because anemia can be caused by low T level.

Fasting is great but in my case i need to stick with the 4-5 meals per day.

[flatscat]

i just mean do your cardio BEFORE you eat in the morning -

[JohnnyVegas]

All good info in this thread.

Make sure the advice gdevine gave you about breaking your shots into more frequent schedule doesn't get lost in the shuffle. Everything else is theory and trial and error, but injecting more frequently is something you can do now that can have definite benefits for some.

[yannick35]

Lot of stuff to cover when i see my medical doctor. Lots. For cardio i got an xbox kinect its pertty amazing, you can play a lot of sports, kinect sports 1-2, ea active, the biggest loser, even dance central 2 as a fitness mode that will get you sweating.

[JohnnyVegas]

I have wanted to get Kinect or the Sony product for boxing. I know I would burn mass calories doing that...but there don't seem to be any good motion controlled boxing games.

[yannick35]

I have wanted to get Kinect or the Sony product for boxing. I know I would burn mass calories doing that...but there don't seem to be any good motion controlled boxing games.

Boxing games suck, they really do, the control is very bad, i really hope they due get something out for fighting sports.

Kinect sports you need to go out of your way and look stupid to punch in the stomach, and really punch high to punch the face.

I got the bas rutten training cds i got on sherdog, i use them sometimes with my big wavemaster XXL punching bag. Pertty cool cardio

[yannick35]

Injecting twice a week vs once very 10 days. I did ask my medical doctor about this and he told me that Test E as a long half life, between 10 and 14 days, with that dosage once every 10 days is good enough.

That is what i have been told. It does make sense and for me if i can inject only once every 10 days better for me too. I really don't like injecting, even if its painless in the glutes.

[steroid.com 1]

Injecting twice a week vs once very 10 days. I did ask my medical doctor about this and he told me that Test E as a long half life, between 10 and 14 days, with that dosage once every 10 days is good enough.

That is what i have been told. It does make sense and for me if i can inject only once every 10 days better for me too. I really don't like injecting, even if its painless in the glutes.

Dear God; half life of Test E (or C) 10 to 14 days...really?

Try 72 hours (maybe more maybe less depending upon metabolism).

Are you sure you got the right Doctor? If he told you 10 to 14 days I'd be very suspicious Vannick...no kidding.

[yannick35]

Dear God; half life of Test E (or C) 10 to 14 days...really?

Try 72 hours (maybe more maybe less depending upon metabolism).

Are you sure you got the right Doctor? If he told you 10 to 14 days I'd be very suspicious Vannick...no kidding.

Ya see another question i need to ask him then. Yeah he told me that i should inject every 10 days at 250mg per shot.

[boxingfan30]

not attempting to argue with you, but i've seen a lot of articles where test E will last 7 days or more... test C even longer.

[boxingfan30]

I think the problem is that the majority of these docs that prescribe this stuff have never been on it to really know what to expect, how long it will last etc. For people such as myself that have never been on it, I have to read and get info from others about it since i've never been on it. My point is that I don't feel many doctors can be trusted when it comes to stuff like this as far as knowing what an individual may feel works for him.

[steroid.com 1]

[QUOTE=boxingfan30;5802817]not attempting to argue with you, but i've seen a lot of articles where test E will last 7 days or more... test C even longer.[/QUOTE]

Really?

Show them all to me.

Do you understand the term "half life" and what it means metabolically?

Read: http://www.steroid.com/steroid_half_life.php

Test E has a half life of 4.5 days on average Test C maybe a little less. For some men it can be less time while for others more; but on average the medical community considers 4.5 days till blood serum levels prove otherwise.

[kelkel]

^^ yep.
It would be great if you could post current BW so we can see what your body actually says. No offense to your doc, but just because he's been prescribing it for a long time does not mean he has a full grasp of it. TRT is a very pro-active science anymore, at least for all of us here who are seriously trying to be in tune physically. Good luck and keep us posted.

[boxingfan30]

[QUOTE=gdevine;5802858]

not attempting to argue with you, but i've seen a lot of articles where test E will last 7 days or more... test C even longer.[/QUOTE]

Really?

Show them all to me.

Do you understand the term "half life" and what it means metabolically?

Read: http://www.steroid.com/steroid_half_life.php

Test E has a half life of 4.5 days on average Test C maybe a little less. For some men it can be less time while for others more; but on average the medical community considers 4.5 days till blood serum levels prove otherwise.

I just said I wasn't attempting to argue with you... why are you coming off as such a pri*k about it?

[steroid.com 1]

[QUOTE=boxingfan30;5802881]

I just said I wasn't attempting to argue with you... why are you coming off as such a pri*k about it?

First off I am not being a prick. Anyone that knows me here knows that's the last thing I am!

I responded because you're posting inaccurate information and backing it with a quote like "I've seen a lot of articles where..."

We are very - no extremely - careful here about the accuracy of information. Many men come here looking for help and they can only get that if the information being posted is accurate. If not, it poses great danger for men.

The OP's Doctor telling him Test E/C has a half life of 7 to 10 days is just not correct. It is generally understood that Test E and C is about 72 hours or so.

If I am prick in your eyes because I care about the accuracy of information on this board and the health of men...so be it.

[boxingfan30]

"Testosterone esters are less polar than free testosterone. Testosterone esters in oil injected intramuscularly are absorbed slowly from the lipid phase; thus, Testosterone Cypionate can be given at intervals of two to four weeks."
http://www.drugs.com/pro/testosterone-cypionate.html

"Testosterone Cypionate is simply testosterone which has undergone 17beta-estrification, to allow for a steady release over the course of about a week. Besides this difference (the ester), this form of testosterone will do what all others do."
http://www.*********.com/steroids/Te...Cypionate.html

"This medication is given by injection into the buttock muscle by a health care professional. It is usually given every 1 to 4 weeks or as directed by your doctor"
http://www.webmd.com/drugs/drug-5185...e+Cypionate+IM

Well, there you go since you asked.

[steroid.com 1]

"Testosterone esters are less polar than free testosterone. Testosterone esters in oil injected intramuscularly are absorbed slowly from the lipid phase; thus, Testosterone Cypionate can be given at intervals of two to four weeks."
http://www.drugs.com/pro/testosterone-cypionate.html

"Testosterone Cypionate is simply testosterone which has undergone 17beta-estrification, to allow for a steady release over the course of about a week. Besides this difference (the ester), this form of testosterone will do what all others do."
http://www.*********.com/steroids/Te...Cypionate.html

"This medication is given by injection into the buttock muscle by a health care professional. It is usually given every 1 to 4 weeks or as directed by your doctor"
http://www.webmd.com/drugs/drug-5185...e+Cypionate+IM

Well, there you go since you asked.

I am proud of you; you went on Google tonight and searched on "Test E half life" and these articles appear right at the top of the search.

Good for you my friend, it's a great search tool.

Let's not hyjack the OP's thread.

But here's what I do know between Test C and E.

Test C is very closely interchangeable with E in that the only real difference is do to one carbon chain which does not affect the duration or action of these steroids when compared side by side.

Test C has one more carbon in its ester than does E, but that's about it.

So what's the difference between the two splitting hairs?

The half life of E can range between 4-6 days compared to C which can range from 3.5 to 5.5 days...depending upon a mans metabolism.

From my position it is fair to say half life of E is under a week's time and certaintly not 7 to 10 days.

Nuff said...let's go for a beer

[boxingfan30]

dude.. now you are acting like a pri*k... think about this for a minute... without your superiority complex. When your average guy who doesn't know about Test E, C, P, or whatever... they are going to do a search... and I didn't search for half life of ANYTHING... I simply put in Test Cypionate and got these results. WedMd and anything like it is what people who don't know much about a drug, steroid , etc are what people are going to look at. Does it really matter how I searched or where? And almost ALL of the ones on the first page say about the same thing don't they? Yes they do. I NEVER stated that the info was right or wrong... I said I had read some things that said it had a longer life than you suggested. You asked for some sources, so that's what I gave you. Why is your word better than WedMd or any other source for that matter? I don't personally care myself since I won't likely need it for a while since I got my numbers back, but most people who do need it are going to be far more likely to take the advice of just the very few sources I posted vs. listening to someone like you who is nothing more than just a guy on an internet forum. Get off your high horse.

[steroid.com 1]

dude.. now you are acting like a pri*k... think about this for a minute... without your superiority complex. When your average guy who doesn't know about Test E, C, P, or whatever... they are going to do a search... and I didn't search for half life of ANYTHING... I simply put in Test Cypionate and got these results. WedMd and anything like it is what people who don't know much about a drug, steroid, etc are what people are going to look at. Does it really matter how I searched or where? And almost ALL of the ones on the first page say about the same thing don't they? Yes they do. I NEVER stated that the info was right or wrong... I said I had read some things that said it had a longer life than you suggested. You asked for some sources, so that's what I gave you. Why is your word better than WedMd or any other source for that matter? I don't personally care myself since I won't likely need it for a while since I got my numbers back, but most people who do need it are going to be far more likely to take the advice of just the very few sources I posted vs. listening to someone like you who is nothing more than just a guy on an internet forum. Get off your high horse.

I saw an "article" on the internet that said injections of Test every three to four weeks was an appropriate protocol.

Believe that?

There are guys on here who have Doctors prescribing protocols without understanding even the basics of Testosterone Repla***ent Therapy.

Medically licensed physicians who don't know to check E2 levels, why hCG is important, that an AI is an Cancer drug, no other hormone panel then total test...I could go on and on...and these quacks are medically treating these men and in some cases hurting them!

The men that come here do look for experienced advice from men like myself and other good standing members here who have been through it all...myself over 4 years now!

You don't have to take advise of anything I say or what anyone else here has to say for that matter. I nor you or any member that I know are Doctors. But what I will say is that when I or another experienced member can inpart our experiences to help another man form getting hurt from a Doctor who doesn't know what he's doing or steer a man to find the correct care from the start; then I for one am greatful that I could help.

First time I am saying this here as a member of this great community but I am bailing off this thread from here on...I hate hyjacking theards anway.

gd

[boxingfan30]

That's fine... I appreciate your want or need to feel like you are helping those of us who need help. I never said I wouldn't take your advice at least into consideration... my point was simply that right or wrong... the sources I posted are unfortunately the first ones that come up when searching things of this nature and that is what people tend to believe first. Many don't know to come on to forums such as these to get advice from people who have experience with steroids .

[auslifta]

My medical doctor told me that in 6 months at a dosage of 250mg of testosterone injection every 10 days i should gain anywhere between 15 to 20 pounds. Too many factors to say how much you will gain.


He also told me that once testosterone is in the body the food absorbtion changes, and most of the food eaten is going toward muscles instead of fat storage. Testosterone positively effects nutrient partitioning, this is why more of what you eat gets used for muscle building instead of fat


This almost seems to good to be true. My diet is in check and i don't get the cravings i used to get when i did my first steroid cycle 12 years ago, but the dosage where very different where i was getting 500mg to 750mg of test E per week with deca and winstrol V in the mix.

The scary part for me is the weight gain, i am 5 feet 10 inches and around 215 pounds right now, problem is that i have a medium bone structure, and i should weight no more then 190 pounds tops.

Question is simple why do some people gain fat while on testosterone, that is what i read. I am also not sure i have carte blanche to eat anything on want just because i am on TRT.

Answers in bold. People get too fat because they eat anything they see, and alot of fast food rubbish.

[boxingfan30]

that's the seefood diet!

[JD250]

That's fine... I appreciate your want or need to feel like you are helping those of us who need help. I never said I wouldn't take your advice at least into consideration... my point was simply that right or wrong... the sources I posted are unfortunately the first ones that come up when searching things of this nature and that is what people tend to believe first. Many don't know to come on to forums such as these to get advice from people who have experience with steroids.

Many don't but many do and those are the ones that WE are concerned about, many guys come here as a last resort, I did and I educated myself from studies posted by gdevine and many others and was pointed to studies done by DR. Crisler and others that can be found on medical sites totally dedicated to TRT, my Doc. prescribed me anti depressants, my clinic wanted me to be on a full blown cycle that would cost 1000bucks a month and would've ****ed me up worse .........this place and the information posted here along with the studies to back it up were my only hope and they allowed me to get my life back.

gdevine doesn't need me to speak for him so I will speak for myself, if you post something that could possibly lead someone astray in this forum it will be addressed promptly and politely, I didnt see where gdevine was a prick at all, but if your gonna interject info expect it to be discussed and scrutinized, we are all working together to help each other and we've all stood corrected at some time or other, no biggie.

btw... gdevine knows stuff about TRT and he always backs it up with studies that can be viewed and scrutinized by all and just for the record it's a fairly well known fact that day 5ish is when your levels drop sharply by day 14 your gonna be screwed. Sometimes it takes more than a simple search, that's where this place comes in, and most people here will protect the integrity of it. We don't have all the answers but we won't give answers that are known to be wrong.

[yannick35]

I agree with most that as been said here, a part from the flaming, and no i do not feel that my post as been hijacked, its all amazing information. I am talking notes of many things that i will bring to the table when i see my medical doctor next month.

And i know that lot of this is trial and errors, as for now i am scratching the surface and quite a noob in all of this. I can honestly tell you that i got 2 weeks of androgel gel and felt nothing at 10mg per day, but 2 weeks is way to short to tell i guess. I am now on my second injection of Test E 1cc, i feel a bit better, and am starting to develop some acne on my shoulders. This is a quite commun side effect of Test E.

This is all very exciting to me, because i know many medical doctor don't give a presic for TRT, mine seems to be willing. I have changed my diet and eat more protein, control carbs.

I know someone said low carbing, i love low carb, but i was never able to adapt to ketosis, plus anyone that lift weights needs a carb up at some time. I never low carbed on stroides so not sure what the full effect would be.

I do eat lots of fat when i moderate carbs, i cook in butter, and coconut oil, i eat meat, and whole eggs, i just don't beleive in egg whites only. I added a whey shake isolate 2 eggs mixed in water, and some glutamine supp that i take before bed with some melatonin and zmass.

I will bring the injecting twice a week to him for sure, i have also read that injection on trt should be given every 2-3 weeks, but my medical doctor is against the 3 weeks and beyond because he did say you will get minimum benefits.

I am not here to argue, and certainly will not question anything gdevine says because the guy is just awsome and he give incredible advise.

But i do have to bring this to my medical doctor, in the end he is the one that decides where this theapy is going, i will go to for blood work for sure, my medical doctor works with blood work to understand what is going on.

There is also my light anemia we need to find out what is going on here too. Also hoping that testosterone will help fix my laxed ligaments and tendons, not sure if the information on the internet i have found is accured, but they said that at 250ml per week (and you guys are right it does seem like a big dosage per week for someone who is starting on trt) will help, create more red blood cell and collagen.

[yannick35]

Answers in bold. People get too fat because they eat anything they see, and alot of fast food rubbish.

When i did my cycle 12 years ago, my appetit was true the roof, but my test level was so much higher 500mg to 750mg per week, yes it was a screwed up cycle and no PCT was done at the end. I was eating a very poor diet, crappy fast food, the 2 for 1 pizza special was a regular i could eat 2 medium pizza in one sitting, no wonder i gain all that weight and yes most of it was fat. This is why i know that even with test you don't have carte blanche to eat anything you want unless you want to put on maximum weight and dont care about fat vs muscle ratio.

[yannick35]

I regret not asking more questions back then, there was a guy my age at the gym, he did a testosterone cycle only, i know it was enhantate because it was the guy that sold me my gear that sold him is.

I remember that guy was chubby, he was in is early 40, now i know that he was on a 8 week cycle, and is results where insane. I do not know what diet he was on, i remember low carb being in vogue back then in 1999, but not sure he was on that either. He was in the gym 5 times a week weight lifting, he never did cardio at least not at the gym. After a good 5 weeks i could clearly see a big difference, he had lost a lot of fat, and is muscle seperation where starting to show. At the end of is 8 week cycle he had a very flat stomach no abs but still amazing, i would guess is BF% was around 10% or more, he must have been around 20% maybe more when he started. And most of is fat was around is waist.

I really regret not talking to that guy more and finding out what dosage he used, what diet he was on. But one sure thing is that test only cycle work wonders, and i feel to work even better for the aging men.

[flatscat]

I think it will help your light anemia for sure.

Is it possible to do a full bulk on a low carb/ carb cycling diet? I don't think so.

Since your body on t is already processing nutrients more efficiently, (especially carbs), is it possible to change your body comp positively (lose bf, gain lean mass) while on one of these diets while in a ketosis state? Yes, I think so because I did it.

I only bring this up because you are concerned (as you should be) about excess bf. However you do it, you need to bring it down.

Some guys that metabolize t slowly are ok with every 10 days - but those are very few and far between. Some guys that metabolize t quickly will surely do better on twice a week. There is a friendly ongoing discussion about the need for twice a week injections in general on this board. I am sure there are some who really do better on twice a week, and some that are just fine on once a week. It is an individual preference and should be based on personal experience with both.

You guys are talking about two different things - GDevine is absolutely correct about half-lives - that is a fact. Boxing - most of your references are pertaining to treatment protocols. A good protocol should be based on the half-life, and that is where this board and it's members have a problem with any physician implementing an injection protocol that is over once a week for the most part. It make no sense scientifically or practically. There is plenty of personal testimonials in this section of guys that were started out every ten days or even once a month by physicians (who read the same reports you listed and said once a month will be fine....) who saw dramatic improvements in overall satisfaction with their treatment when they went to at least once a week injections.

hope that helps

[yannick35]

I think it will help your light anemia for sure.

Is it possible to do a full bulk on a low carb/ carb cycling diet? I don't think so.

Since your body on t is already processing nutrients more efficiently, (especially carbs), is it possible to change your body comp positively (lose bf, gain lean mass) while on one of these diets while in a ketosis state? Yes, I think so because I did it.

I only bring this up because you are concerned (as you should be) about excess bf. However you do it, you need to bring it down.

Some guys that metabolize t slowly are ok with every 10 days - but those are very few and far between. Some guys that metabolize t quickly will surely do better on twice a week. There is a friendly ongoing discussion about the need for twice a week injections in general on this board. I am sure there are some who really do better on twice a week, and some that are just fine on once a week. It is an individual preference and should be based on personal experience with both.

You guys are talking about two different things - GDevine is absolutely correct about half-lives - that is a fact. Boxing - most of your references are pertaining to treatment protocols. A good protocol should be based on the half-life, and that is where this board and it's members have a problem with any physician implementing an injection protocol that is over once a week for the most part. It make no sense scientifically or practically. There is plenty of personal testimonials in this section of guys that were started out every ten days or even once a month by physicians (who read the same reports you listed and said once a month will be fine....) who saw dramatic improvements in overall satisfaction with their treatment when they went to at least once a week injections.

hope that helps

Thanks for your input faltscat, for now and i will go for the once every 10 days at least until i get tested, like you say it might be different from person to person and maybe depending on how low a person test level is. I guess

It still feels quite funny that i have been put on TRT so fast, i went for my blood test results and PRP treatment, i said i still feel down and tired all the time, i did have an HIV test 10 years ago anemia can be related to that too, but it was negative, and i did not fool around with other women, been with GF for 7 years now. So after ruling out everything else he put me on TRT.

I guess that you can never say never in life, i said i would never use steroid again, and now i got a presc for Test E for the next 6 months but as many here say it will be for life.

[JD250]

Good luck bro! Keep us posted on how this goes for you. Every 10 days will work fine just learn to pay close atten. to how you feel at certain times during those 10 days, maybe down the road you will adjust the timing and maybe you'll be fine with it the way it is, the key is that you feel good and are healthy on your blood work results.

[yannick35]

Yes for sure i am not taking this lightly, and doing it by the book. Some things might change in the long run, like you guys say maybe i will switch to twice a week instead of once every 10 days, or maybe it migth swtich to once every 7 days.

As long as the moral is good, and the fat is coming off.

[Fred40]

I think gdevine and boxingfan were arguing two different things......half life vs. life.