Full Bloodwork with ranges = Healthy Hormones??

[oscar1990]

I recently had full blood work done as I wasn't convinced that T/E2/SHBG was in the normal range, furthermore I have creaky joints, muscle fatigue/weak muscles, lacking morning wood, shitty workouts. I have discussed these symptoms with my GP who is an idiot and says "if it's within range you have nothing to worry about", according to him my body hair on my chest, legs arms is a good indication of my test levels? I say his an idiot. I am desperately seeking info/advise on my levels.

note: I am sexually active with my girl, 5-7 times a week lol (apparently this could cause low T?). My training routine was intense with perfect routine and diet. I put on 6-7kg at 10-14% bf with pre-workouts and protein (Jack3d + NO Xplode + MYOfusion protein. (Since october/november my workouts and gains have declined)

Current Stats
Age: 22
Weight : 75 (last year around august was 81kg 11-14% bf)
Height : 183cm
Diet : Low G.I, High protein, 20-25% calories from fat
Training routine : compound movements


Total Testosterone = 16 nmol/l (8.3-29) previous bloodtest was 21
SHBG = 43 nmol/l (11-71) previous bloodtest was 41
OEST2 = 83 pmol/l (<150)
DHEA = 9 umol/l (2.2-15)
Cortisol = 472nmol/l (120-620)
FSH = 1 IU/L (<7)
LH = 5.2 IU/L (<7) (this concerned me as it relates to testicular failure???)
Prolactin =145 mIU/L (40-450) Ive done my research and found in a scientific journal that prolactin is suppose to be low in males
TSH = 0.94 (0.35-4.94)
Vitamin D = 37 (50>) Low


All stated above excluding Vitamin D are apparently all within normal ranges according to my doctor, lol. ****wit

looking forward to your comments/answers

[SEOINAGE]

doesn't look that bad honestly imo. Guessing you need to up your calories and get some carbs get back to your last test levels on testosterone . Having sex 5-7 times week sounds like you are fine honestly. I just think more than likely you are wearing yourself out in the gym. maybe ditch some of the preworkout caffeine junk and eat, and try to put on some strength. LH higher than FSH I believe is also a sign of testicular development. sounds like your HPTA is still developing honestly and just need to give things time. But like I said get some more rest and food and see how it goes. Sleep too. Others might think differently, but thats just my opinion on what to try first.

[ecdysone]

Because your SHBG is a little elevated for someone your age, without a free test level, it's going impossible to comment much on your total test.

[oscar1990]

SEOINAGE thanks for your personal opinion, what is HPTA? (im assuming it has something to do with testicular development) if so, are you suggesting I am still developing due to higher LH? is this possible at 22 years old :S?

In addition alot of my family has said I have taken the gym to seriously burn myself out.

[oscar1990]

Shit, I thought I have listed free t

Free Testosterone : 51.3pmol/l (25-120)

[oscar1990]

Shit, I thought I have listed free t

Free Testosterone : 51.3pmol/l (25-120)

[EASTCOASTKID]

Im a 50 year old on TRT it took me about four docs before I found one that knew more about Hormone levels than me. Don't let yourself be led astray by unknowledgeable docs (there are tons out there trust me). With that being said I don't want to dis any docs etc I am just saying there are only a selected few who are knowledgeable on hormones (unless you go to an Endo) but then you are waiting three months to get an appointment.

like the others here said your levels actually look pretty good.

P.S. (Jack3d + NO Xplode) throw this crap in the trash.....

[oscar1990]

Thanks for you comment EASTCOASTKID, anoyone else?

[SEOINAGE]

Hypothalamic pituitary gonadal axis. And I am told it doesn't necessarily fully mature until mid 20s. You can look it up its basically a big cycle with hormone signals coming from your brain making their way to your nuts. and then the levels of hormones in your system from your nuts having your brain release more based on that, extremely lousy explanation I know.

[oscar1990]

Ecdysone I have posted free T levels, do you have any additional input?

[JD250]

Throw that pre workout crap away, if anything will make you feel like crap, that will do it after extended use....do you even know what's in it and what it does to your body....throw it out and eat a bowl of oatmeal and have a cup of coffee 1/2 hour before your workout. I know several people who quit using all this preworkout stuff and found that they feel better after a while off. Just my opinion from personal experience and experiences of others....of course some will say it's great. Get to the diet section and tell them what your eating, those guys will help you out with advise on preworkout food, you might be suprised what you feel like if you change a few things like that. Take vitamin D.

[oscar1990]

Thanks for your opinion JD250, but my diet is pretty strict and alot of top quality oatmeal, however I have used pre-workouts in the past but have discontinued use for approx 30-35 days. I most probably have burnt out my adrenal glands? however, I have perfect kidney function according to my previous bloodtest. Cant wait to recover so I can start lifting, lol.

[JD250]

Good, if you got the diet down you don't need to kill yourself with preworkout, your levels may not be optimum but they don't seem to be at the bottom either, take some time to heal and keep the diet strict and you may surprise yourself. If things don't improve with how you feel in a couple months get your levels checked again. Sublingual B complex can help with energy levels also. Get some vitamin D!! Keep us posted in this thread as to how this goes for you.

[oscar1990]

Will do, Thanks again JD250.

[zaggahamma]

welcome oscar

could you state if on any prescription meds?

i personally would be concerned with the stated recent symptoms and the unexplained drop in test levels...i am not familiar with you lh concern

bump for more opinions and the rx question

[kelkel]

Try taking a couple weeks off away from the gym and let your body rest.

[oscar1990]

Jpkman I am not on any prescription medication but have used pre-workouts and protein in the past. The sudden drop in total t is very frustrating but have been told by many individuals in science that Total Testosterone levels are known to fluctuate? but that does not seem feasible for someone my age (22), I hope my body hasn't shut itself down as I have never cycled. =/

I am trying to figure why my SHBG is so high and Total T is low ?

[oscar1990]

Kelkel, I think thats my only option. I am still doing brisk walks to burn off some fat (250-300) calories. If things dont work out im going to turn into a couch potato and loose all definition and shape. This is ridiculous.

[oscar1990]

Btw, thanks for your opinions Jpkman and kelkel. I am new to this forum, much appreciated.

[oscar1990]

Any other opinions/suggestions/notions?

[steroid.com 1]

Any other opinions/suggestions/notions?

You're normal and healthy.

If anything maybe a tad low for a 22 year old but other than that you're fine.

[oscar1990]

any chance of justifying?

tad low? normal?

[steroid.com 1]

any chance of justifying?

tad low? normal?

No justifying...you're too young to start a TRT protocol.

My Doc won't even take an appointment with anyone under 30 unless referred by another Physician.

You're normal and keep something in mind; once you start this is for life!

[zaggahamma]

G
Symptoms present and we just take the patients money and show him the door? Idk...doesn't seem right at any age...

[oscar1990]

lol, how does age relate to TRT?? What if your young and very low on T? e.g. (hypogonadism) Does this still mean TRT is irrational?


Doesn't really answer my question

[sparverius]

Being on TRT is like being a low grade drug addict. You have to arrange your life around it and make sure that you can always get it. Forever. Even when you are old. It's a pain in the ass. I was very depressed, couldn't think and could barely walk up a flight of stairs when I started TRT and I still wish that I'd tried harder to get better without TRT.

[steroid.com 1]

J - He's 22 with normal levels, his symptoms could be a result of a hundred things...

I don't see anything in his BW that would justify shutting him down for the rest if his life.

Just like we don't like to see anyone under 25 using gear the same is true here..he's not done growing up yet and not diagnosed.

I just don't see it and I'm sorry.

[steroid.com 1]

lol, how does age relate to TRT?? What if your young and very low on T? e.g. (hypogonadism) Does this still mean TRT is irrational?


Doesn't really answer my question

If you were diagnosed as being idiopathic hypogonadal then of course a TRT protocol would be justified...I never said that.

But I'll answer your question: you're not hypogonadal.

[zaggahamma]

J - He's 22 with normal levels, his symptoms could be a result of a hundred things...

I don't see anything in his BW that would justify shutting him down for the rest if his life.

Just like we don't like to see anyone under 25 using gear the same is true here..he's not done growing up yet and not diagnosed.

I just don't see it and I'm sorry.

totally understand your point
but i put myself in the same position and ask....why? why do i have to feel like shit? why are my levels at 300 something when mr. abs is at 900 and ripped when i work as hard...genetics? exactly...but we treat those who dont have genetically perfect health...i didnt tell him to go jab test but i just dont see how some docs offer ZERO treatment....if hormone repla***ent is the only option IF do we rule it out if the patient it under 30? where does AGE come into play....whats the magic number.....

[JD250]

I understand what JPK is saying, I do believe there may be a hypothetical situation where it would be justified but in this case his levels arent comparable to someone in the 300 range, from what I can see he is almost dead center on the scale. I think we've had a few young guys with really shitty levels and it seems like their BW always points to something somewhere being severely out of whack and needing the attention of an endo. But I am interested in some opinions as to JPKs question...What age is the magic number?

Also Oscar, I know you say your routine and diet is perfect but I also know that perfect is a word that needs to be subjected to scrutiny by others who strive for perfection in that area......I'd encourage you to let the guys and gals in the nutrition section give your diet a look and see if they can help you out, go tell them EVERYTHING you told us and more and if it's perfect it shouldn't take long to sort it out.

[steroid.com 1]

We have two cases; Primary and Secondary.

Primary: Non-age related for the most part. The testicles stop functioning for any number of reasons. In this case I don't see any age criteria.

Secondary: Majority of the cases are age related, ie, HPTA slow down, increased E2 levels, etc...starting somewhere in early/mid 30's.

In our TRT protocols we shoot for ideal "youthful" levels...usually meaning where a man lives at the age of 28 or so.

A great deal of men in their 20's exhibiting low testosterone levels are NOT age related cases...there are usually other pathologies in play or something else like previous steroid abuse .

Ideally, one would want to eliminate any condition or disease in someone who should have ideal levels before any thought of TRT protocol..that being someone in there 20's.

If you question age criteria then would you give a 12 year old, or 14 year old Testosterone ...where do you draw the line because I know you J and you would never justify giving a 14 year old testosterone.

So where is the age line???

I say anyone under 30 needs to elminate any pathology or life event that is leading to low testosterone levels first and foremost before any TRT protocol is considered.

I am not advocating saying no one under 30 should be deprived TRT protocols (you guys know me better that that) where they are clinically warranted; what I am saying is that someone under 30 who is otherwise heatlhy needs to be totally vetted of any other condition causing the low serum levels because it shouldn't be that way.

Make sense to me...

[oscar1990]

What other things could I eliminate to find the 'cause' ?

I dont get it? I get complimented on how coarse my facial hair is? I have visible hair all over my body (legs, arms, chest) 'androgenic hair'

I dont understand what could be causing this; I have in the past had lower chronic stomach pain which almost feels like an upset stomach with gas, I doubt this could be so significant enough to lower my T ? lol.

Pissed off man,

also gdevine thanks for your opinion and understand your perspective.

[oscar1990]

Can anyone else elaborate or add to why my LH is in the higher ranges?

[Vettester]

Oscar, the one thing I might question is the low FSH level. To me that seems quite low. Quite a bit of variance between the LH and FSH scores you have, which are usually relatively close in numbers when tested side by side. I would hope that it would be at least 3.0.

Now, with that said, I do agree with GD on most of this, I don't think the initial solution is to just put you on TRT and call it fixed. I calculated your total serum to that/around 460 on the ng/ml standard, which isn't over the top where with what you might consider optimal, but it's not anywhere where I would just say go get on TRT. Your free test is actually pretty good, and truthfully that's the lab that really matters when it's said and done, and that could even improve a little more simply by lowering your SHBG. Can you clarify your 'OEST2' lab? One would gather that to be the estradiol - E2. If so, is it marked as a sensitive assay? If it is, then that's an issue that needs addressed, but I'd rather it be clarified first. I read another post at one point where someone did the oest2, and they were from Australia, and I believe it indeed was E2.

Here's where I'm with you ... I'm not a big fan of any doctor who hides behind "The labs are with range" statement. Some of these test standards we get have ranges from one extreme to the other, and being at either end is not what one would call healthy. What I suggest, see if you can't get a referral to possibly go see a specialist; probably best to start with a Urologist. See if someone can't nail down why your FSH is low. They might run some additional labs, and if they feels there's some concern, they should run various xrays and MRI's to see if there's something causing this. FSH is a big contributor to sperm production via the negative feedback loop between the pituitary and the testicles, which involves the activity of the HPTA that was described earlier by SEOINAGE.

Who knows, a second opinion coming more from the angle of a specialist might enlighten everything going on here. However, again, based on what you presented us, I agree that testosterone therapy isn't the route you need to be seeking.

[Vettester]

Can anyone else elaborate or add to why my LH is in the higher ranges?

Your LH is where my mine was 10 years ago when my testosterone levels were optimal. Your LH (IMO) is fine, I am more concerned (as mentioned above) about your FSH being too low. They both get produced in the same part of the brain.

[oscar1990]

FSH being to low? ****.

Tomorrow I will be getting a blood test from another doctor. I will keep this thread update and let you guys know.

[oscar1990]

Vetteman08 thanks for your opinion and comments.

[zaggahamma]

g...i agree about the "vetting" process..i'm pretty sure i didnt say otherwise and leads me to...

what jd stated...yes , his levels now are kind of in the middle BUT down a pretty SIGNIFICANT amount...

and no vett, i wouldnt just hand out a lifetime of trt to a 14 year old but i've raised the question before and been intrigued/concerned by young men that have low test levels, etc.....i would like for ALL to have a SOMEWHAT even playing field in life/health/etc.

oscar we will be subscribed and looking for updates and wish u the best

[steroid.com 1]

FSH being to low? ****.

Tomorrow I will be getting a blood test from another doctor. I will keep this thread update and let you guys know.

Oscar, read the sticky by kel and print it out for what blood panels to get tested...very important.

When you get them post them here complete with ranges and you'll get all the insight you will ever need!

gd

[JD250]

I'm gonna throw this out there for scrutiny..... Oscar says he's boinking his women as much as 7 times a week, zinc is crucial to sperm production, excess zinc is lost through ejaculation....low FSH, low sperm count, low zinc........am I overthinking or totally off base with this connection, not saying this is the cause of how he feels just wondering if the low FSH is related to the constant boinking through low zinc. Anyone?