What is a normal T level?

[fjr02]

A few weeks ago I went on for my annual and scored a 291/49 for total and free T.
On the BW paper that I received in the mail I had the word "NORMAL" next to it.
Really??

I did a little homework.

What I read was that the sample population that goes into this "normal range" is a Gaussian distribution.
This means that the sample is "normally distributed". Look at the chart. One can say that 95% of the sample population lies between the 2.5 and -2.5 marks on the chart.
I'm not sure what the exact lo and hi values are are (I hear different low and top ends). To make it easy, let's say the "low normal" is 250 & the "high normal" is 800.
What this tells you is that the middle of the bell curve is a score of 525. In other words the majority of the sample scored a 575.
My 291 "normal" value puts me way to the left on the curve. Using the 250 "low normal" value essentially means that only 2.5% of the sample population scored less than someone with a 250 - even though it is called "normal". They may have been 80 yrs old - I don't know.

So when the General Practitioner tells you that 250 is normal, maybe you can ask him how that scale was determined. See what he says.

[Flier]

A few weeks ago I went on for my annual and scored a 291/49 for total and free T.
On the BW paper that I received in the mail I had the word "NORMAL" next to it.
Really??

I did a little homework.

What I read was that the sample population that goes into this "normal range" is a Gaussian distribution.
This means that the sample is "normally distributed". Look at the chart. One can say that 95% of the sample population lies between the 2.5 and -2.5 marks on the chart.
I'm not sure what the exact lo and hi values are are (I hear different low and top ends). To make it easy, let's say the "low normal" is 250 & the "high normal" is 800.
What this tells you is that the middle of the bell curve is a score of 525. In other words the majority of the sample scored a 575.
My 291 "normal" value puts me way to the left on the curve. Using the 250 "low normal" value essentially means that only 2.5% of the sample population scored less than someone with a 250 - even though it is called "normal". They may have been 80 yrs old - I don't know.

So when the General Practitioner tells you that 250 is normal, maybe you can ask him how that scale was determined. See what he says.

Yepp, being "normal" sucks...lol. Especially if doc tells the insurance company you are.

[sirupate]

I agree with your conclusions. Perhaps few doctors take statistics classes as part of their undergrad work. Remember too that there are some outliers at both ends of the normal distribution...ie. there are some in the population with greater than 800 levels of total testosterone . Frankly, I think that many of our better speed/strength athletes are at that far end of the distribution/population.

[APIs]

OMG this talk of Bell Curves & Distribution is bringing back memories of Finite Math & Statistics classes in College, ugh. While sometimes not realistic, medical professionals must have a guideline to base diagnosis & treatment on. Anything less would be speculation on their part. Regardless, the model obviously has its flaws when dealing with men & TRT. The fact remains while some men feel fine @ 300, others may feel horrible @ a number like 400. That's why it's prudent to work with a Doctor that bases treatment on how you feel, not just what the Bell Curve dictates. I'd run away from a Doctor telling me; "You're test level is completely normal @ 250."

[APIs]

Frankly, I think that many of our better speed/strength athletes are at that far end of the distribution/population.

That sure would be an interesting study. I wonder if they are at the far end? This combined with genetics surely would account for a lot of it.

[fjr02]

APIs,

Sorry to bring back memories of those days.
Yes, I did what you've suggested. I've run away from my General MD as far as the TRT subject is concerned. I'm pursuing other opinions.
If subsequent test results agree with my most recent one, I think TRT is in my future. We'll see what the TRT Doc says.

At 291, I'm not feeling very fine.

[MickeyKnox]

A few weeks ago I went on for my annual and scored a 291/49 for total and free T.
On the BW paper that I received in the mail I had the word "NORMAL" next to it.
Really??

I did a little homework.

What I read was that the sample population that goes into this "normal range" is a Gaussian distribution.
This means that the sample is "normally distributed". Look at the chart. One can say that 95% of the sample population lies between the 2.5 and -2.5 marks on the chart.
I'm not sure what the exact lo and hi values are are (I hear different low and top ends). To make it easy, let's say the "low normal" is 250 & the "high normal" is 800.
What this tells you is that the middle of the bell curve is a score of 525. In other words the majority of the sample scored a 575.
My 291 "normal" value puts me way to the left on the curve. Using the 250 "low normal" value essentially means that only 2.5% of the sample population scored less than someone with a 250 - even though it is called "normal". They may have been 80 yrs old - I don't know.

So when the General Practitioner tells you that 250 is normal, maybe you can ask him how that scale was determined. See what he says.

i've been preaching this for awhile now. not only here, but to anyone who would listen. take a look at this thread..

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t=#post5898394

and here's just one example of how it can improve your quality of life..

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t=#post5897561

[bullshark99]

API Totally right, just a range not an absolute!!! Here's a good one, my lab work from Qwest has the T range as 250-1100ng/dL, my lab work from LabCorp has 348-1197ng-dL??? same measurement ng-dL, guess the moral of the story is if you want insurance to cover it as Low T, use Qwest!!!!!!

[MickeyKnox]

OP, could you provide your total test and what your SHBG scores were?

[DaRoq]

API Totally right, just a range not an absolute!!! Here's a good one, my lab work from Qwest has the T range as 250-1100ng/dL, my lab work from LabCorp has 348-1197ng-dL??? same measurement ng-dL, guess the moral of the story is if you want insurance to cover it as Low T, use Qwest!!!!!!

Wouldn't it be more likely for levels to fall within Quest's range due to the lower minimun? Or are you saying that measurements with Quest would be lower than LabCorp from the same blood sample?

[bullshark99]

My point was very generic actually, all I was trying to state is both labs use the same measurement ng-dl but qwest has a lower number for what is considered "normal" so if one wanted to have insurance cover the meds as "low T" it would obviously make sense to use qwest. This was a mistake on my part, it would make sense to use Labcorp as they use 348 on the low end. Thanks for pointing out my misprint. Got them reversed!

[zaggahamma]

APIs,

Sorry to bring back memories of those days.
Yes, I did what you've suggested. I've run away from my General MD as far as the TRT subject is concerned. I'm pursuing other opinions.
If subsequent test results agree with my most recent one, I think TRT is in my future. We'll see what the TRT Doc says.

At 291, I'm not feeling very fine.

whats the plan