Great Question about clomid

[Razor]

Sgt hart thought you guys would have the answer. I asked him if I took clomid not for PCT just to take it to raise FSH and free test in your system..he said it would but only temporatly.. So how does running it for PCT make it effective for returning your lvls to the way they were previously b4 you started the cycle?

[Razor]

Sgt Hart response

Don't make me have to think in the whore thread. I just looked around a bit and it does look like it will raise T levels significantly. It can raise SBGH by about 30% which isn't really that bad but the problems with running it long term are the typical sides of clomid.

1) Vision. A surprisingly common side effect of Clomid is blurred vision. Is this drug doing some kind of subtle long term damage within the eye that we do not understand yet? We just don't know. However, cases of spontaneous retinal thrombosis (clotting), spasms and detachment have been reported.

2) Moodiness and Estrogen. Clomid is actually estrogenic in some cases and moodiness and mood swings are fairly commonly reported. The bottom line is that Clomid's effects are poorly understood and likely vary from individual to individual.

3) Thyroid. Some of Clomid's common side effects match up quite well with those encountered during various thyroid issues. This has some wondering if Clomid does subtely affect thyroid function in some way.

4) Nausea. This is a very common side effect with Clomid. Again, one can't help but ask what it is doing long term. Subtle changes in inflammation, pH, etc. can have long term consequences in gastrointestinal land.

5) Peripheral Neuropathy and Paresthesia. One commonly reported side effect of clomid are the symptoms of nerve damage, such as tingling, numbness, burning, itsching, etc. This usually discontinues several months after stopping the drug, but one can't help but wonder how much damage has been done.

[Razor]

My response

I knew you could come up with something for me..Im not talking about running it long term. Just a typical 4 week PCT..How does it permanelty put your lvls back in check like they where pre cycle if the effects are only temporary..
I am going to run it @35mg for 7 days not PCT and tell you my results.

[Vettester]

A lot of it depends on how long your HPTA has been suppressed. When a person takes a cycle, the HPTA shutdowns test production with the testes via the negative feedback loop. However, at the end of a normal cycle, an individual's HPTA is usually still in mode to produce GnRH -> LH/FSH > endogenous production in the testes. Clomid, a SERM, will compete with estrogen in the pituitary, which is the process that activates the production of the LH/FSH. So, Clomid will get the HPTA back into it's old habits to produce these hormones.

In the case like most of us at Club HRT, our HPTAs have GTFO! So, maybe some clomid would induce some pituitary stimulation, but it would be temporary at best. I actually kept an eye on this with Kelkel when he was taking Nolva for several weeks to mitigate nerver receptors due to estrogen rebound. It sparked my curiosity to see if his LH/FSH would show any increase. If memory serves correct there was no increases at all on his labs, which were taken right as this was going on. Anyways, there comes a period of time when the HPTA just won't fire back up. How long? I dunno. I've heard of guys doing it at a year, but I think that's even kind of out there. Mine checked out on me for turning 40, so screw it, I found the fountain of youth after that.

Lastly, if by chance you or another member were looking for help with fertility issues due to being suppressed, I would explore HMG, which is a similar setup as HCG , but instead it provides both the LH & FSH analogues, whereas HCG is pretty much more aimed at the LH analogue. However, I did experience some spermatogenesis taking place with a lab I took while taking HCG, but that's another story. HMG though will provide both analogues, and the testicles will react as if the HPTA is calling the shots once again. Hell, they might react even better if levels were mildly low before.

[Flier]

I´m coming up on 3 months now, doing 60mg Tore ED.
It raised my LH/FSH and doubled my Test from 9 to 18 (8-35). Just did another BW, I´ll post in in my Tore thread here.
So I am wondering, why not just keep doing this as TRT? But what are the long term sides? I guess nobody knows.

[kelkel]

Correct Vette. But remember I'm the proud father of a pituitary tumor. It was a rather interesting experiment though...

[HRTstudent]

Cycling anabolics for abuse is totally different than people with hypogonadism.

For the most part, we assume that people who abuse anabolics have a healthy hormone function, but they simply depress it during a cycle. The clomid simply is used to speed up what would likely happen naturally.

Thats not the case with TRT. Most of the time, there is an underlying condition that causes a hypogonadal person to not produce enough of some hormone(s).

You cannot compare people abusing anabolics to people using TRT 99.9% of the time. You will mostly confuse yourself.

[Razor]

Sweet now I understand..Thanks guys