Interesting article on SHBG from LEF

[kelkel]

Guys (and girls)

Thought you might find the attached article interesting. It's from Life Extension Foundation:

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2011/...-Status_02.htm

Speaking of SHBG, has anyone here effectively lowered theirs using some of the more common OTC supplements such as Stinging Nettle or Avena Sativa? Or maybe Azol (Danazol)

kelkel

[DaRoq]

Informative article, kelkel. Thanks!

My SHBG level was 16.7 nmol/L (16.5-55.9) and I have presented symptoms of Sleep Apnea. Dr. actually gave me a referral to a sleep study, but I was skeptical about it because I didn't understand the benefits. This article gives me some evidence that he might just be right in his diagnoses - that I should focus on the root causes for my low T as much the TRT.

[kelkel]

Glad it helped. If your not hooked up with LEF go to their site and do so. Free monthly magazine, Email news letters, etc.

[ecdysone]

Kel, you gotta admit though that's a pretty confusing article: high is bad, no wait, low is bad, no wait...

I think a real 'take home' lesson from it is subtle: that is, SHBG is itself more than just something that binds test and transports it around - but instead is a real member of the sex hormone family that has receptors and exerts actions like test and the other hormones do. Sort of the sleeper hormone that most of us ignore (except when its high).

Now, if there was only a good way to manage it into the "good range" (whatever that is...)

[kelkel]

You read between the lines as expected! I had to read it a few times myself to grasp that. It is an interesting dilemma. If you take meds to lower it, it will return to it's norm when you cease the meds.

[pugster]

im currently taking stinging nettle /dandelion root as its what ive read about that seems to work to lower shbg /water retention ,no data to back them up from me personally tho. afaik there is data out there to suggest proviron and winstrol lower shbg if you are looking to go for the pharmacological route.

[Blergs]

Guys (and girls)

Thought you might find the attached article interesting. It's from Life Extension Foundation:

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2011/...-Status_02.htm

Speaking of SHBG, has anyone here effectively lowered theirs using some of the more common OTC supplements such as Stinging Nettle or Avena Sativa? Or maybe Azol (Danazol)

kelkel

I use proviron on HRT OR cycle. I think its GREAT!. specially for long cycles when SHBG starts to build up.

[kelkel]

Blergs I'm curious if you have any BW to track what happens to your shbg levels when off for a period of time. That would be real interesting to see. Before-during-after would be great.

[DaRoq]

Kel, you gotta admit though that's a pretty confusing article: high is bad, no wait, low is bad, no wait...

I think a real 'take home' lesson from it is subtle: that is, SHBG is itself more than just something that binds test and transports it around - but instead is a real member of the sex hormone family that has receptors and exerts actions like test and the other hormones do. Sort of the sleeper hormone that most of us ignore (except when its high).

Now, if there was only a good way to manage it into the "good range" (whatever that is...)

I noticed that too... wish they would've at least suggested "optimal" levels. What's your take on that? Somewhere in the middle of the reference range?

[kelkel]

^^Probably agree with that. Labcorp ref range is 19.3 - 76.4. Maybe low middle. I landed at 40.8 which is up 5pts for me.

[bass]

mine has been at the bottom with all the tests I've done, i am afraid that it might crash one day, so in my case I'll be looking for something to help increase it, if thats possible!

[kelkel]

I found the below research when looking further into shbg. Long but relevant:
(coincidentally I had my D tested for the first time and it came back low at 25.6, range 30.0 to 100

Nutrition Performance
By Robbie Durand, M.A.

Senior Web Editor

Low Vitamin D Level Lowers Testosterone Levels

"Men who ensure that their body is at least sufficiently supplied with vitamin D are doing good for their testosterone levels and their libido, among other things." —Ad Brand of the Sunlight Research Forum

Vitamin D is a group of fat-soluble prohormones, the two major forms of which are vitamin D2 (or ergocalciferol) and vitamin D3 (or cholecalciferol). Vitamin D is obtained from sun exposure, food, and supplements. Human skin is rich with latent pre-vitamin D, which is activated by sunlight. Humans are meant to obtain vitamin D through sunlight exposure.

Our skin is the major source of vitamin D; 90-95 percent of most people's vitamin D requirement comes from casual sun exposure. Much to many bodybuilders' surprise, vitamin D is not contained to any significant degree in food, nor was it meant to be obtained through oral intake.

There are few dietary sources of vitamin D. An eight-ounce glass of milk contains 100 IU, although this is often inconsistent.1 Other dairy products, like cheese and yogurt, tend to have little or no vitamin D added. Oily fish like salmon, mackerel, and sardines contain 200-360 IU vitamin D per 3.5-ounce serving. Many breakfast cereals contain 40-100 IU per serving.

Despite the Vitamin D found in foods, many people fail to obtain even the modest 'adequate' intake every day. People who do not spend much time in the sun and other people at high risk for vitamin D deficiency include: the elderly, who convert less vitamin D with sunlight exposure, compared to younger people; the obese; and dark-skinned individuals, due to high melanin skin content.2,3 Oral intake of vitamin D has become necessary, as humans developed lifestyles involving less and less sun exposure.

Vitamin D deficiency is now recognized as an epidemic in the United States. A growing body of research indicates that vitamin D deficiency contributes to a broad spectrum of conditions such as high blood pressure, poor insulin sensitivity, inflammation, and other fundamental processes that underlie heart disease. Another health consequence that should be of concern to bodybuilders is that low vitamin D levels are associated with low testosterone.

The Role of Vitamin D and Testosterone

Since vitamin D is so involved in so many physiological actions in the body, researchers a few years ago examined how vitamin D affected androgens— so they created a vitamin D receptor knockout mouse and the mice demonstrated significant gonadal insufficiency, decreased sperm count and motility, and histological abnormalities of testis.4

To further demonstrate the active role of vitamin D on androgen function, there is a distinct seasonal variation in testosterone levels in the wintertime, when there is decreased exposure to the sun and people are bundled up for the winter. Therefore, it appears that the skin gets more vitamin D exposure and uptake in the summer as opposed to the winter. Additionally, testosterone levels appear to be lower in the winter, in conjunction with the low levels of vitamin D.5

Athletic performance also peaks in late summer and declines during winter.6 This might partly be explained by an increased training during summer, but this seasonal variation in testosterone due to declining levels of vitamin D may also be a cause of athletic performance declining. Data on testosterone synthesis are lacking, but vitamin D treatment upregulates various genes in the creation of new sperm.7 Researchers recently reported that vitamin D may be more important for testosterone than we previously thought.

Low Serum Levels of Vitamin D Associated with Reduced Testosterone Levels

In this month's Journal of Clinical Endocrinology, a cross-sectional study was done; researchers examined the relationship of vitamin D, testosterone, and SHBG, and levels were assessed in over 2,299 men. Remember, SHBG binds testosterone in blood, leaving less interaction with the androgen receptor. The researchers examined vitamin D levels and testosterone over the course of the year.

The researchers found that men with sufficient vitamin D levels had significantly higher levels of testosterone and free androgen index and significantly lower levels of SHBG, when compared to vitamin D-insufficient and vitamin D-deficient men.8 Vitamin D, testosterone, and free androgen index levels followed a similar seasonal pattern, with a drop in level at March and peak levels occurring in August.

In summary, low vitamin D levels were associated with reduced androgens levels in men. This notion is further supported by similar seasonal variations of vitamin D levels and serum androgen levels. Bodybuilders should be consuming oral vitamin D, as it has been found to have an impact on testosterone levels and some studies suggest may even improve performance.

It had been estimated that the body requires daily 3,000-5,000 IU of vitamin D.9 The most likely reason for this is that essentially every tissue and cell in the body has a vitamin D receptor and therefore has a requirement for vitamin D. Vitamin D is critically important for the maintenance of calcium metabolism and good skeletal health throughout life.

[bass]

interesting read!

Hey Kel, good thing you live in Florida the sun shine state, can you imagine if you lived north? your vitamin D level would be 5! so supplementing is a must for most of us.

[Vettester]

I think last round in January, my SHBG was somewhere around 11. It's been on the low side for quite awhile.

[kelkel]

Vette is that the Labcorp ref range?

Bass-a bit further north unfortunately. The first state.

[kelkel]

Relative to what Blergs posted, read below:

Interesting,

Proviron and sex hormone binding globulin
by William Llewellyn

Proviron, sex hormone binding globulin and Anabolic Steroids
Q: Does Proviron increase or reduce the anabolic effect of the steroids?

A: At one time it was a commonly held belief that Proviron was an anti-anabolic steroid – that it reduced the anabolic effect of other steroids. I believe Dan Duchaine’s Underground Steroid Handbook II was the first to porize this theory. In it, Dan comments that Proviron itself has little anabolic value. Noting that it is also binds the androgen receptor with high affinity, he further concluded that it must act as a blocking agent, incapable of imparting a strong anabolic effect, and at the same time preventing other (more anabolic) steroids from binding the receptor. The conclusion seemed logical, but it turned out that Dan was only partly correct. Proviron indeed has little anabolic value by itself. Studies that were uncovered much later, however, would give a different explanation as to why. As it turned out, the poor anabolic potency of Proviron was caused by the drug being very rapidly metabolized to inactive metabolites in skeletal muscle tissue, not issues with receptor activation or transcription. While Proviron could bind the androgen receptor very avidly and impart a normal anabolic message to the cell, in this area of the body very little drug will actually make it to the receptor to do so. So, alas, Proviron is not the anti-anabolic agent we once thought it to be (but it is still a weak anabolic).

This leaves us with the other side of your question. Does it increase the anabolic potency of other steroids? The answer is that it may to some extent, but it depends on the context. The main trait we are looking at here is the high binding affinity Proviron has for sex hormone binding globulin (sex hormone binding globulin). sex hormone binding globulin is a protein that binds to and temporarily prevents anabolic/androgenic steroids from activating their receptors. The higher the percentage of unbound steroid in the blood, the more active the steroid is going to be in the body. Given that Proviron binds to sex hormone binding globulin so strongly, perhaps more strongly that any commercial steroid known, it may displace other steroids that also like to bind this protein. With Proviron beating the other molecules to the seat, so to speak, it is forcing a greater percentage to remain in a free (active) state. This is, of course, essentially the same thing Duchaine first proposed, but with a different target site and outcome.

Testosterone is a good drug for stacking Proviron with in this regard, as it likes to bind sex hormone binding globulin . Many other synthetic steroids, however, bind with sex hormone binding globulin in much lower percentages. So depending on the other steroid(s) taken, the impact of Proviron will range from “noticeable” to “very slight if any at all

[Vettester]

I think last round in January, my SHBG was somewhere around 11. It's been on the low side for quite awhile.

Kelk, YES, that would indeed be Labcorp. I've been on the edge of hypothyroidism for awhile too, so that could possibly attribute to the lower level, but not sure if that's the sole reason. My doctors don't seem overly alarmed, so for now it's GTG with higher than normal free test.

[ecdysone]

mine has been at the bottom with all the tests I've done, i am afraid that it might crash one day, so in my case I'll be looking for something to help increase it, if thats possible!

I think as vette sort of touched on above - one way is to make sure you have exceptional thyroid function.

Was listening to an interview by Crisler and was reminded that SHBG also binds to E2, not all that much less that test does for that matter, so one has to keep that in mind with regard to their E2 levels bouncing around.

Just as most 'state of the art' TRT docs take a more conservative approach with test dosing for their low SHBG patients, they would gravitate towards more frequent, SQ injections as a way of managing E2 fluctuations also.

And of course, just to complicate things, the fact that SHBG is a hormone affecting the HPTA in its own right might be another reason to try and mange it.

[Blergs]

Blergs I'm curious if you have any BW to track what happens to your shbg levels when off for a period of time. That would be real interesting to see. Before-during-after would be great.

I dont right now, but in time I may, If I do get it when not using proviron, then when I am (on hrt) I will post up to compare. :-)

I have just been going off feeling.

[Blergs]

I think last round in January, my SHBG was somewhere around 11. It's been on the low side for quite awhile.

i say thats good, more free unbound test.
I personally wouldent want my SHBG high.
I supplement with pregnenolone, DHEA + test .
if your on HRT you SHOULD add pregnenolone into your HRT.
when on HRT (test) your body stops its own production of test (as we all know here) but not JUST test, others too, more important in my op (since we are already taking test so that base along with estrogen is covered since it will convert from test) but the others which have many mental and physical functions need to be up kept.
I had a small artical on it from not too long ago, i will look for it and post it.

very cheap too i mean pop in 5-20mg of preg ed.

[kelkel]

Correct. Been on a cream of preg/dhea/selegeline basically since starting. Good stuff. Get micronized if taking pills to help it survive the first pass and get more in your system.

[Blergs]

HERE:
On HRT(test)?what about DHEA & Pregnenolone? its a hormone that should be in all HRT!
I found info like this long ago but disregarded it, I have been using DHEA for my HRT (added it about 1 yr ago) I found this interesting.
this is only some of whats out there on this but I feel it can possibly help others.

I will be adding it to my HRT along with the DHEA (though the preg would convert to this also, i want a lil extra first then may try with out and only the preg and test to see how i feel)
anyway here:


Pregnenolone: steroid hormone power to beat stress and boost memory

Often described as the mother of all hormones, naturally occurring pregnenolone acts to improve memory and combat depression - and has powerful anti-inflammatory arthritis pain relieving properties.

Pregnenolone isn’t actually a steroid hormone, but what’s known as a metabolite – the molecules forming part of the chemical chain behind human development.

Pregnenolone acts as a key building block in the body’s steroid hormone production during the cellular growth process powered by mitochondria. Mitochondria act as the power source to drive the growth of cells in the body by generating ATP – short for adenosine triphosphate – a form of chemical energy. In a typical human cell there may be thousands of mitochondria, which also contain pregnenolone.

Inextricably linked to this cellular growth process, pregnenolone forms the raw material for hormone production. This explains why it’s inadvertently called the mother of all hormones, the pregnenolone hormone and sometimes the adrenal hormone (being formed in the adrenal gland and central nervous system).

Pregnenolone certainly plays a vital part in hormone production: From the steroid hormone Progesterone, to estrogen, testosterone and the dhea steroid hormone (short for dehydroepiandrosterone), Pregnenolone is behind them all.
What is dehydroepiandrosterone?

Like its counterparts estrogen, testosterone, cortisone and Progresterone, dehydroepiandrosterone is a steroid hormone that Pregnenolone helps to produce.
The benefits of pregnenolone

Research into pregnenolone benefits can be traced back to the 1940s, when it was found to aid the productivity of factory workers, whilst helping to reduce stress. Pregnenolone for pain relief research also centered on pregnenolone’s excellent anti inflammatory properties, particularly in the treatment of arthritis.
What is pregnenolone used for today?

While pregnenolone benefits had been established and found safe to use as a pregnenolone supplement, it wasn’t until the 1990s that pregnenolone rose to prominence again – this time as an anti aging memory enhancer and an aid to boost memory.

Research cantered on the brain hormone factor and how pregenenolone benefits mental health and wellbeing as part of the complex steroid hormone production process. The scientific community was interested in how the pregenolone metabolic process could influence mental health, stress and depression, with pregnenolone supplementation perhaps acting as an anti depression supplement.

In addition to stress and depression, pregnenolone supplementation also entered the anti aging arena to address mental decline and memory loss, and act as a memory enhancer. As optimal levels of pregnenolone are known to be important for mental health and cognitive functions, pregnenolone therapy came to be viewed as an important anti aging product, along with fellow cognitive enhancers such as Idebenone, piracetam, Hydergine and Vitamin B12.
Progresterone Pregnenolone & DHEA

Pregnenolone’s interlinking role in producing steroid hormones such as the Progresterone hormone, estrogen hormone, testosterone hormone, and dhea hormone may play a part in anti aging health.
Why consider a Pregnenolone hormone supplement?

Men and women typically have differing amounts of pregnenolone, while lifestyle, exercise, stress levels and age also play a part. By the age of 70 Pregnenolone levels in the body may have declined by up to 60 per cent – which is why older people may consider taking a pregnenolone dosage as part of a regular pregnenolone supplement.
Pregnenolone Uses

As a memory enhancer, the pregnenolone hormone action appears to aid knowledge acquisition and boost long term memory capabilities. A 1995 clinical study produced pregnenolone testimonials vouching for its effectiveness, particularly in relation to use of dhea to improve memory capabilities. During this trial, pregnenolone was found to be a potent memory enhancer – and possibly up to 100 times more effective than dhea.

Women embarking on the post-menopausal stage of their life may also find pregnenolone benefits them, as it offers a natural estrogen therapy and way to increase estrogen.

A pregnenolone supplement is available in tablet form and as a pregnenolone cream. As a natural supplement, Pregnenolone is safe to use and presents few side effects. However, care should be taken if you have a history of seizures due to the way that Pregnenolone reacts with the GABA receptors in the central nervous system.

From anti inflammatory arthritis pain relief to help with depression and memory loss, discovering more about pregnenolone presents a range of anti aging benefits.

[doc w]

Correct. Been on a cream of preg/dhea/selegeline basically since starting. Good stuff. Get micronized if taking pills to help it survive the first pass and get more in your system.

I imagine it's a prescription with the selegiline in it?

[kelkel]

Correct sir. 50/50/3 mix from compounding pharmacy.

[doc w]

Correct sir. 50/50/3 mix from compounding pharmacy.

Do you have an opinion about using a bio identical with dhea/preg cream. Worth it or junk?

[kelkel]

Never tried it but I will check with my compounding pharmacy and see what the wizards there think regarding comparative outcomes between the two, including cost.