New to TRT

**marleyman** · 03-19-2012, 05:08 PM

This is my first post but been to this site alot in the past two months. There is a lot of good knowledege here! I started on androgel two months ago after the doc told me that my test level was at low normal 387. After 5 weeks of this my level went to 414 on the 1.62 at three pumps daily. During my visit i asked the doc to go to injections once a week which he said yes but wanted to start at 200 every 10 days of test C. The first injection i did not feel too much except a 2 pound weight gain. 10 days later i did my second injection and then put on 5 more pound s with in two days. i am assuming that this is water so when i called my doctor to express my concerns i asked for a estrogen check on my next bw. he said yes but also told me that he is referring me to a endo(he is a uroulgist) and told me to stop taking the test. Howerver he does not want me to take another injection. But finaaly the test kicked in over the past week and i finnanly feel like a normal person with avg. levels. The endo that he wants me to see has no openings till the end of april. What shold i do? i do feel extremly bloated. I took my bw this morning. Very confusing two months.

**kelkel** · 03-19-2012, 05:38 PM

Ok. Were the blood tests while on Agel done 24 hrs after application when you would be at your trough level? There can/will be a several hundred point swing in serum level from peak to trough. But anyway, your now on injections and your doctor doesn't really have a grasp of cyp's half life and proper TRT protocols so he's punting you to someone else. How do you know this Endo knows TRT? If your not sure I'd call his office and interview the staff (read the finding a physician sticky) before wasting your time.

Why he wants you to stop is anyones guess. If you are going to see the new endo call the office and tell them you will be in HPTA shutdown if you stop and be in worse shape than before, can they please bump your appt up? In the mean time I would cut your dosage down to 100mg per week for now. 200mg is high end to start a protocol and if you don't know your E level you could be creating a problem for yourself. You'll feel fine at 100mg to get you through till a doc appt. Make sure you find a doc that will treat you how you want to be treated.

**marleyman** · 03-19-2012, 05:54 PM

Thanks Kelkel. like i said great info on here. i did metioned this to the staff that i am at the end of my 10 day injection. Tommrow will be day 11. However i still feel pretty good besides the bloat. The urolgist is supposed to call the endo to get me in soon. Should i take the injection anyway? Should i wait untill i get my bw back that i did today? I also found out today that the endo is a female i hope that this does not hurt me even though my doc says shes treats low test.
I did my first bw 26 hours after androgel applacation. This whole process has me very frustrated and am thinking just going back to my orignal test level. Trying to stick with it but my doctor really got me confused. Even though this past weekend was great lots of energy with wife and kids. seems like a catch 22.

**kelkel** · 03-19-2012, 06:34 PM

As stated. I'd do 100mg and no more and continue once a week until you see your new doc, but if you feel you may compromise your relationship with the new doc, then maybe not. Although I'm sure she'd understand your logic regarding cutting dosage in half so as not to be left with nothing and the roller coaster ride that goes with it. When you see her go over all your options. In the mean time go through all the stickies and educate yourself for your appointment. When I was new at this I would prepare a list of questions for the doc and would have already researched what his probable answer would be and counter points if it was other than expected. The more you know, the better you will be treated.

**marleyman** · 03-19-2012, 06:49 PM

Thank you. Good info.I have been educating myself and will continue to do so. One more question, if i decide not to continue with TRT how long untill my own test starts back up? One month on gel then two 200mg injections. Two months total.

**Hackamaniac** · 03-19-2012, 07:00 PM

I started trt and stopped.....I was on trt for about 8 weeks....Then my endo made me stop and get retested.....I felt like complete shit for a couple of months after stopping....Decided to restart trt sunday, with a different doctor......It's a tough decision, i am already having mixed feelings....Hope whatever you decide works out for you!!

**marleyman** · 03-19-2012, 07:10 PM

Thanks for your input. It has been tough decision so far. I am 39 and to do this for the rest of my life is a big undertaking for me. it seems for a lot of people though once they get going they never look back. I just want to the engery to be a better husband and father instead of always saying i am too tired. At least i finnaly figured out what the problem has been for the past 5 years. Good luck on your restart!

**HRTstudent** · 03-19-2012, 07:21 PM

Blah!

That sucks you are getting stuck in the medical game like so many.

Going off testosterone cold turkey is such poor advice it blows my mind. Yet, medical doctors do it consistently. It's unreal!!!

My best advice to you is to find a local doctor who specializes in male hormones. There are too many doctors who know nothing about male hormones. It can be a very tough spot to be in having your hormones up and down and then lower than you started at.

**Hackamaniac** · 03-19-2012, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by marleyman

Thanks for your input. It has been tough decision so far. I am 39 and to do this for the rest of my life is a big undertaking for me. it seems for a lot of people though once they get going they never look back. I just want to the engery to be a better husband and father instead of always saying i am too tired. At least i finnaly figured out what the problem has been for the past 5 years. Good luck on your restart!

No problem.....I'm only 32, and have been extremely tired for 4-5years myself.....I don't do anything fun because of it and can hardly function......The way i see it, feelin like we do is not really living anyway......Great group of guys here and they will definitely help you!!! Good luck!!

**Hackamaniac** · 03-19-2012, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by HRTstudent

Blah!

That sucks you are getting stuck in the medical game like so many.

Going off testosterone cold turkey is such poor advice it blows my mind. Yet, medical doctors do it consistently. It's unreal!!!

My best advice to you is to find a local doctor who specializes in male hormones. There are too many doctors who know nothing about male hormones. It can be a very tough spot to be in having your hormones up and down and then lower than you started at.

Agree, my endo took me off cold turkey.....Then was gonna restart me and if she didn't like my rbc count stop me again.... I told her she put me through hell and wasn't gonna do it again...So I found a new doctor...5th different one i've been to.....He seems to know more than the others, but still not sure if he's great......But what can you do when you are on a budget????

**marleyman** · 03-20-2012, 05:35 PM

Why did the endo stop you? I finally got a endo appt. this thursday and i am scared that she will take me off. I had gained 7 pounds since my first injection and when i asked him to treat this he said this is not common and i am having a reaction. So he advised me to stop which i have but starting to feel the drop. So on to the endo.

**Hackamaniac** · 03-20-2012, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by marleyman

Why did the endo stop you? I finally got a endo appt. this thursday and i am scared that she will take me off. I had gained 7 pounds since my first injection and when i asked him to treat this he said this is not common and i am having a reaction. So he advised me to stop which i have but starting to feel the drop. So on to the endo.

She wanted me to get to retested early in the morning...First test was at noon...Total test was 170 something.......She said if i test in the morning, I might be over 300 and then she wouldn't treat me.....lol.....She just didn't have a clue....Hopefully your endo is alot better....Glad you got in sooner....

**marleyman** · 03-20-2012, 06:03 PM

My test pre HRT was at 387. Borderline low that is my other concern that she will say i am fine and not treat me. But after my last injection it has been a huge difference in my energy level and just wanting to be more active. They did the same to me when i started. test in the morning. I hope it is going well for you on your restart.

**marleyman** · 03-22-2012, 04:52 PM

Finally got my visit with the endo today. My test went up to 553 it has been 10 days since my last 200mg. She said that my urolgy doc gave me too much of a dose (200mg every 10 days). First she wanted me to switch back to androgel and said that i did not give it the proper amount of time to work. I was worried about my hair thinning out even more than it is now is the reason i switched to injections. She said that my body could of reacted to the test and is the reason i put on 7 pounds in such a short time. She decided to give me 100mg every week. She said to come back in three months. She will not let me do the injections myself either,even though i was doing them myself with the other doc. She also said that my estrogen was in the middle. Regular test.

My questions for guys is.
Is my body reacting to the test? should i switched to the gel.
is three months too long for a check up?
Is my dose typical for a starting point?
is injections better? Why is she pushing the gel on me?
Do i need to look into a A.I.?

**Vettester** · 03-22-2012, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by marleyman

Finally got my visit with the endo today. My test went up to 553 it has been 10 days since my last 200mg. She said that my urolgy doc gave me too much of a dose (200mg every 10 days). First she wanted me to switch back to androgel and said that i did not give it the proper amount of time to work. I was worried about my hair thinning out even more than it is now is the reason i switched to injections. She said that my body could of reacted to the test and is the reason i put on 7 pounds in such a short time. She decided to give me 100mg every week. She said to come back in three months. She will not let me do the injections myself either,even though i was doing them myself with the other doc. She also said that my estrogen was in the middle. Regular test.

My questions for guys is.
Is my body reacting to the test? should i switched to the gel. Yes, it's quite normal to see some appetite increase and weight gain, not to mention that part of your gain is probably water ... She didn't mention that part did she?
is three months too long for a check up? Well, it doesn't look like any of this has been going by the book ... After starting injections, your 1st labs should be 6 weeks. After that, 3 months is good to do for the first year, then after you have things dialed in, I like 2x per year.
Is my dose typical for a starting point? Yes, I like the 100mg every week protocol for where you are at. It's hard to gauge where you sit if you had your lab taken 10 days after your injection. Me personally, I like to see where it is at during the peak level. If you do too, then have them run labs approx. 3 days after your last injection next time you go for BW
is injections better? Why is she pushing the gel on me? For me, I think injections are the better route to go. I did Gel when I first got on HRT, and found it to be unstable after about 5 months, but that was just my experience. I think part of it is due to its excess conversion of DHT opposed to injections. Either way, it's a mess, and I personally don't want any confusion to what and what's not being absorbed. As for as the doctor's biased preference ... Seems that more doctors that ARE NOT comfortable with prescribing HRT will go the gel route over injections. I think you will find various stereotypes regarding their mindset with injections, and additionally, I think you will find the pharmaceutical reps have done a better sell job with the mainstream family doctors like the one you're seeing. My female PCP was the exact same way ... Although, I've slowly got her to start taking notice over the years to how effective my HRT program has evolved. However, that convincing has come at full out of pocket expense by me
Do i need to look into a A.I.? It isn't if you need to look into an AI, what you need to look at is your E2 estradiol. As you gathered, T will convert to E. Too much conversion leads to an unhealthy increase, which then will need to be managed with an AI. So, having your doctor tell you that it's in the "middle" isn't sufficient. You need the actual score with the range. If it's a sensitive E2 lab based on a Lab Corp range (3-70), then more than likely you will want to maintain somewhere between 20 -to-40. Low 30's is my "sweet spot" if you call it, but everyone is different. Don't let this get out of control.

See bolds ^^

**marleyman** · 03-22-2012, 05:54 PM

Thanks vetteman. Great info. I will ask for the e2 reading next Thur when i go in for my next injection. I will get all stats and post them. I am very consistant with my diet and excersise rountine. I do belive this was all water weight. Will this subside? Any way to offset this? I dont care about the weight gain just very uncomfortable.

**marleyman** · 03-23-2012, 06:14 PM

Hey guys another question. The doc told me to take propesca if i want 1mg. Does any one have any postive or negetive comments on this? If i do decide to take this does any one have a place to buy at a good price?

**kelkel** · 03-24-2012, 09:08 AM

Seriously avoid it if at all possible. Just google it. Does mpb run in your family? Prone to hair loss?

**marleyman** · 03-25-2012, 03:19 PM

Kelkel, It does i am 39 now and started thinning at 24 but i suspect since my test has always been low that it is not as bad as it would be with high test. If i stay away from the high end of test levels will i avoid this?
Another question,
My new doc gave me a 100mg injection on thur. ever since then my energy level is going down more and more each day. back to afternoon naps again. My old doc was giving me 200mg every 10 days and i would feel bad for two days then everything kicked in and i felt great then. Does any of this makes sense to you guys.

**APIs** · 03-26-2012, 11:14 AM

Even this new Endo seems clueless. I mean really, how is making a patient come in for every injection a viable protocol? Who can do this on a long-term basis? IMO, if you have a 10 ml vial in-hand from the first Dr. I'd continue with 100 mgs every week and find another Doc ASAP. If you find one that specializes in TRT, they'll understand why you self administered. Good luck...

**kelkel** · 03-26-2012, 12:05 PM

You won't know about the hair loss until you get started. As API said, you need to inject yourself. Give this time. If weekly doesn't work for you try every 3.5 days like some of us do here. You can/will have bad days. Just like non-TRT'ers. Read GD's sticky on what to expect!

**marleyman** · 03-26-2012, 03:53 PM

Component Results
Component Your Value Standard Range Units
ESTROGENS, TOTAL 88 pg/mL
Prepubertal <40
Adult Male: 40 - 115
Castrate <40

Just got this from my endo after i requested it. She says i am in range. I asked for a e2 sensitve test and said she will in 10-12 weeks for my check up. Can you guys tell anything from this test? Should i start a low dose of arimedex? Or should i wait? Where could i buy arimedex?(no prescription on line)
API brought up a good point. I do have test from my previous doc i can self medicate till i find a new one. Right now my insurance is paying for everything.

Thank you all for all of your help! It seems like i was by myself trying to figure this out till i got to this site.
Thanks again,
HMG Treatment:
Therapeutic 400 - 800

**marleyman** · 03-30-2012, 05:34 PM

Hey guys, So I started a .25 ML dose of liquidex E.O.D. and immediately noticed a difference in bloating. I know most of the members here stated to wait till I get the e2 sensitive test done till I started an A.I. But my endo wanted to wait 3 months before she checked it.
So my questions are.
Am I taking the right dose?
I really want to do what the endo thinks. I do not want to hide this for a false test in 3 months.When do I need to stop taking the liquidex so I have a true level?