Free Test too high? opinions

**SEOINAGE** · 03-21-2012, 11:26 AM

Anyways my question, is having elevated free test that bad?

Background:
I recently had blood work done. Was taking 200 mg split into twice a week. Blood was drawn about 2.5 days after injection, which would be close to peak? Doctor normally does draws 2 days after injection to get the peak, but I don't know why they don't worry about your low point. I figure at 2 injects a week you would be so even it wouldn't matter that much.

My total test was 8 points under top end of a range 250-1100, my free was 250 on a range of 50-150. I mean if that is my peak levels and lots of docs monitor bottom levels and try to keep you at least mid range for it, is it really all that bad that at peak levels my free gets that high?

I felt pretty good on this dose, added HCG and I've felt really good, I mean HCG is awesome, although I want to talk to my doc about eod protocol for that. But now with less test cyp, I won't realize the benefits of it yet. Not sure if it was the HCG, but i hear it peaks after 2 days? but dunno if I believe it as yesterday morning and during the day my libido was going like crazy, and even the few days before that doing really well for once, but last night and today not feeling it so much. I'm also doing SQ test injections only now, see how that fares.

Will see how things go the next couple weeks.

**Brohim** · 03-21-2012, 12:00 PM

That is pretty much your peak so I don't think it could be a problem especially if you feel good at that level. I would be interested to see your free #'s at your low point instead. How much HCG were you taking?

**bass** · 03-21-2012, 12:18 PM

testosterone hormone is no different than any other hormone and it should be within range, anything out of range in the long run could case problems. its one thing when you are blasting or on cycle but its quite another to have it out of range for a long time. MHO.

**GotNoBlueMilk** · 03-21-2012, 03:56 PM

what he^^ said.

High free test also leads to higher E2, even when total T does not change.

**SEOINAGE** · 03-21-2012, 04:21 PM

Brohim when I had those tests done I hadn't started HCG yet. I will try to bring it down, but I have heard of people that blast and cruise that keep things relatively high during their cruise even. After starting HCG I have more back acne, but I lowered my test dose right after, so assume once my test comes down a bit from the lowered test cyp the acne will clear up a bit. I am curious about my blood pressure and rbc and other things that need to be considered when on trt actually. Assuming things are fine so far. Going to go along with what this doctor recommends for now. One of his concerns for bringing the free test down was he didn't want it to negatively impact my thyroid, so imagine will be doing more bloods for that as well, because my thyroid might improve with test in the proper range, but it was bad with low test too. It actually looks about same as before now. Well I will follow the doc until the day I want to blast and do a bulk, he obviously won't approve that, going to have to fight myself to lose some fat and wait on the blast till my body is ready, my lifts are respectable and decent enough for someone wanting to do a cycle, but my bf is not.

**Brohim** · 03-21-2012, 06:01 PM

You can look at RBC on your next panel. Is the doc having you lower your dose? You might have to lower to maybe 120-150 and add in HCG to get you dialed in.

**SEOINAGE** · 03-21-2012, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by Brohim

You can look at RBC on your next panel. Is the doc having you lower your dose? You might have to lower to maybe 120-150 and add in HCG to get you dialed in.

Well at 100 mg I was 200 total test, he lowered me to 150 mg a week. and 250x2 iu hcg .

**HRTstudent** · 03-21-2012, 09:57 PM

Well I see it's kind of 2 fold.

You feel great.

But you're on a pretty good dose combined with HCG . You could possibly get just as good results on a lower dose. Doctors in general don't like to see numbers out of range. Insurance companies come after them for that.

**keep fightin** · 03-22-2012, 12:02 AM

good point HRT, I have searched a little for info on receptor sensitivity as we age and wonder if the the more "seasoned" user might be better off hugging the upper end of the range? dare I say even exceed it if sides are managed? Us Boomers will want to know!

**zaggahamma** · 03-22-2012, 06:37 AM

bass and gnbm
are u saying even doing bloodwork at peak the patient should be within range for free?

**flatscat** · 03-22-2012, 07:22 AM

I believe even in range high total, most will show high free due to the outstanding job we are doing suppressing the things that will take it up.

When did we start thinking that a little above range on free was bad as long as everything else is controlled?

**bass** · 03-22-2012, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

bass and gnbm
are u saying even doing bloodwork at peak the patient should be within range for free?

i was thinking more if its above normal all the time, and not suggesting few points above will be a problem but maybe 25% or higher may present problems in the long run. remember how our bodies work, its constantly adjusting and compensating, if we keep everything in a normal range then all the other hormones should stay in range too, in theory at least! my point was, any hormone in our body should be within range, for example if TSH is high then you need to lower it, if E2 is high you want to lower it, and so on. i know Testosterone is an exception for us because we have different goals, but for optimal health it makes sense to keep everything with in range. MHO.

**zaggahamma** · 03-22-2012, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by bass

i was thinking more if its above normal all the time, and not suggesting few points above will be a problem but maybe 25% or higher may present problems in the long run. remember how our bodies work, its constantly adjusting and compensating, if we keep everything in a normal range then all the other hormones should stay in range too, in theory at least! my point was, any hormone in our body should be within range, for example if TSH is high then you need to lower it, if E2 is high you want to lower it, and so on. i know Testosterone is an exception for us because we have different goals, but for optimal health it makes sense to keep everything with in range. MHO.

yeh i know what your saying and makes sense

but

it seems we've had the debate over free test usually hovering a lil over the top whilst the other hormones in optimal ranges...like flats stated above

and

with this guy testing at peak...even moreso he doesnt want to freak over it being high...probably not even a good time to do bloodwork solely...i think someone mentioned wouldnt it have been better to check during trough..

cant wait for my bloods..its been around 4-5 years i mean it

**SEOINAGE** · 03-27-2012, 04:18 PM

Ok so I was feeling awesome last week, this week i feel like crap, and have no libido. Not feeling high e2 either, although that could be the case. I mean had sex last night, wasn't even that into it and normally can maintain erection after but slowly went limp, lasted barely long enough for her sake.

Is it just from dropping down to 150 mg a week? Cause 200 I felt pretty dang good, and after HCG added felt great. And then shortly after adding hcg, like one shot later I had my test dose lowered, so it just took a while for what was in my system to reduce? Or is it high e2 giving me issues? I feel like I need to call my doc and see. Or is it from doing sq shots?

**doc w** · 03-27-2012, 05:17 PM

My levels run fairly similar at test cyp 200mg per week with one IM injections. My free test was 299 (99-250). My sex drive also ebbs and flows depending on the week. I feel we can't chalk everything up to testosterone since many other factors contribute to our sex drive. I think since you just started a new protocol you should continue for six weeks until next BW. Unless you see other obvious changes or feel like crap.

**zaggahamma** · 03-27-2012, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by doc w

My levels run fairly similar at test cyp 200mg per week with one IM injections. My free test was 299 (99-250). My sex drive also ebbs and flows depending on the week. I feel we can't chalk everything up to testosterone since many other factors contribute to our sex drive. I think since you just started a new protocol you should continue for six weeks until next BW. Unless you see other obvious changes or feel like crap.

well said

**SEOINAGE** · 03-28-2012, 06:25 AM

My phone consult is in a week and a half, so dunno if she will want me to go get bloods drawn or base it off feel. But that will give me enough time to see if things are different next week. Also could it just be me reducing calories too much? Cause around same time I decided to start eating less to lose some fat faster.

**zaggahamma** · 03-28-2012, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by SEOINAGE

My phone consult is in a week and a half, so dunno if she will want me to go get bloods drawn or base it off feel. But that will give me enough time to see if things are different next week. Also could it just be me reducing calories too much? Cause around same time I decided to start eating less to lose some fat faster.

good question...i dont think ive seen that asked before....i know cholesterol produces test in the body but we are injecting test but actual amount of calories...i'd like some of the docs to speak on that or any other opinions...i think if i'm hungry i want to eat instead smash so you might be onto something

**SEOINAGE** · 03-28-2012, 03:45 PM

also I don't have much of a libido today but I overall feel better than the last two days, I mean could be my monday night shots kicking in, or the fact that i went to bed at 8 last night.

As for cholesterol and saturated fat, i know they are key components of the steroidic cycle, but when injecting test is it as crucial to consume adequate amounts? i kind of wonder, and assume other functions of your body and brain still need things like this.

I tend to always be happier when I am eating more anyways, so its like would i rather be fat and happy or suffer and be more lean? In all honesty much rather be a man and eat like a man, but will probably suffer through it and get some more fat off of me, and then eat like a man to a degree, but just never let it quite get as bad, or if that doesn't work well I can just be super huge and strong? lol

**zaggahamma** · 03-28-2012, 05:46 PM

I hate being fat...I love to eat unfortunately and struggle...if indidnt workout heavy and Cardio I would be a landwhale for sure

**SEOINAGE** · 03-28-2012, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

I hate being fat...I love to eat unfortunately and struggle...if indidnt workout heavy and Cardio I would be a landwhale for sure

If I stop lifting heavy I have hardly any appetite and usually end up a lot smaller. I ran sprints the other night, did surprisingly well, need to do more stuff like that rather than cut calories too much. And do more brisk walking. I was really good last year including circuits and other body weight forms of cardio with my heavy lifting.

**zaggahamma** · 03-28-2012, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by SEOINAGE

If I stop lifting heavy I have hardly any appetite and usually end up a lot smaller. I ran sprints the other night, did surprisingly well, need to do more stuff like that rather than cut calories too much. And do more brisk walking. I was really good last year including circuits and other body weight forms of cardio with my heavy lifting.

and I'm to the contrary...9 out of 10 days I DON'T go to the gym and rest I consume more calories

**ecdysone** · 03-28-2012, 08:26 PM

Almost 500 years ago to the year, Ponce de Leon (who didn't know crap about elevated free-testosterone ) thought he had discovered the "fountain of youth."

Sometimes I fear we think we have found it.

If you fvck with your body chemically and push it into ranges that are unnatural, well...

**SEOINAGE** · 03-28-2012, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by ecdysone

Almost 500 years ago to the year, Ponce de Leon (who didn't know crap about elevated free-testosterone ) thought he had discovered the "fountain of youth."

Sometimes I fear we think we have found it.

If you fvck with your body chemically and push it into ranges that are unnatural, well...

Well just going by feel my test levels would have had to been to well over the upper ranges 5 years ago and even moreso when I was younger, unless something else chemically was involved making me feel like that. Hopefully my doctor will have more input on whether I should bump it up slightly or check e2. Its either i call tomorrow, or wait a week and a half for my phone consult since she will be gone.

**keep fightin** · 03-29-2012, 12:18 AM

lotta variables on your table SEOINAGE, it will take some work to figure it all out, great thread.. keep us posted, you'll be back in the saddle again!

**SEOINAGE** · 03-30-2012, 05:19 PM

Well got a call from the nurse about the sleep test I did last weekend. Apparently there was moderate to severe apnea. Although I don't know exactly how many times an hour it happened or details, I asked her to find out more for me, and brought up my other issues. She said the doctors recommendation was either to get a sleep study done where they hook everything up, or get a self regulating cpap, and that he feels this is likely the source of my issues. I'm glad, likely will be off test injections eventually, not sure if they are going to look at other things regarding my thyroid or if they will want me to stop and see how I do with a cpap. I just wish I had picked up enough testosterone to run a cycle in the future, but even without, being able to get the rest and recovery I need at night should help me make great progress.

**SEOINAGE** · 04-02-2012, 11:33 AM

So I staggered my hcg and felt pretty dang good yesterday, but the doc bumped me back up to 200 mg a week, will keep doing sq. Official sleep study set up, so will get that done soon. I jacked up my upper back saturday, I did some deadlifts 3" deficit worked up to 385 for 5 reps, a week and a half earlier, and got me sore of course, but I unracked the weight saturday for standing overhead press, didn't even press it and felt my upper back tighten up, so i racked it, rested, then picked it up and started doing reps, big mistake the left side of upper spine knotted up even worse, so racked it and laid on the floor, had to have my wife roll me over, I couldn't move my head rest of the day or even sit, it was bad, still hurting today, have a massage set up for thursday. I have to move my whole body to look left or right, don't think its anything serious, but no lifting for a while, and my mobility is limited, but getting better cause seriously I couldn't move. I felt it creeping up on me, cause i was on the trampoline with my daughter and felt something in my upper back really stiff and odd, so need to be careful not to overdo things like that again.