24 yr old possible newbie

[jdo8700]

24 years old
6'0
152 lbs


Background

Hello guys, got a long story so please bear with me, I've had signs of low testosterone all my life, back in high school I was a fantastic swimmer, actually came close to getting scholarships and breaking some school records my junior year. Never had muscle mass, and it was impossible for me to gain weight, I thought this was from all the swimming I was doing. Things took a turn for the worst around the age 17 (around the end of my junior year or so) for me, I started feeling extremely tired, some days I would beg my parents to let me stay an extra 2-3 hours in bed cause of the extreme exhaustion. Went to the doctor several times and finally they told me I had chronic fatigue sysdrome induced by all the swimming I was doing, so I quit my senior year before the season started. Ever since then I always felt unmotivated, tired. Ive had occasion where I would go work out for 3-6 months including dieting and would barely gain weight but lose it as soon as I would stop.

Fastfoward to September 2011, I was accepted into the police department it was a long process and just had to pass my physical exam, I passed however I developed bilateral stress fractures(from just one 1.5 mile run) so I had to push my start date to spring 2012. I quit my normal job to focus on staying off my legs and healing them. Around De***ber I was still having pain my legs so I went to see a surgeon, he actually told me I was good to go and should start physical therapy to build my legs back up. I did physical therapy twice a week never increasing workload more then 10%, I got up to running a 1.25 mile but started developing pain, went back to surgeon, he prescribed me custom made orthotics. I never had any endurance for anything physical, I would get tired rather quickly. I did my second physical test (mid February) for the police department and passed again, however this time I could barely walk the day after went back to the surgeon; their he told me to get some blood work done by my general physician.

I did some research online on what could be causing this problem, where I read up on vitamin d defiance and then found one that linked vitamin d and testrone. At times through the last 2 years I suffered from ED but thought nothing about it. I asked my general physician to test both and while he told me testrone was unnecessary he tested it for me anyways. Vitamin D came back at 40.4 and the test came back at 271!!! Got retested 5 days later and came back at 311, he told me to go see the endocrinologist.

Ended up seeing the endo on Monday, she told me because the times the test were preformed it was an incomplete picture and really needed a morning blood time test to know for sure. Had blood drawn this morning for this test , she informed me if I were to fail this test she would put me on TRT of my choice, injections, patch, gel and she would allow me to inject myself at home. I asked her about HCG and she told me she could not prescribe that and I would have to go to a reproductive endo to be givin a script for that. I told her I would prefer the injection and she told me it would be 200 every two weeks, I asked about changing it to weekly and she stated well discuss this after more blood work if it is necessary.

Anyways Im completely bummed about this and was wondering if the time of day actually makes a huge difference and if my mooring blood levels does comeback higher why im I at levels of an 80+ year old man most of the day. What other questions should I ask her and what else should i be consenred about ?


First test
271 total test(348-1100) taken at 4pm
Second Test
311 total test(348-1100) taken at 1pm

Waiting for blood work that will include
FSH Serum
Luteinizing Hormone Serum
Testosterone Free
Testosterone Serum
Prolactin
Vitamin D 25- Hydroxy
PTH intact
Calcium Serum
TSH
Thyroxine (T4) Free
triiodothyronine Free
Thyroid Antibodies
Thyroglobulin

[fit2bOld]

Would be more concerned about drawing blood right after an injection that would catch the high number. You should always do blood work before an injection to catch the low spot. as for the every 2 week injections whats stopping you form splitting that dose into once a week if your injecting at home? Would definitely smooth out the highs and lows. Post up the rest of the blood work when you get it. You should have the estrogen checked as well. Did She (the endo) discuss HCG or estrogen as these form a protocol that is healthy and balanced.

[kelkel]

Welcome to the forum JDO. We really do need to see your complete BW with ranges to give a better opinion. Most people are inherently low in vitamin D so I'm sure it's a good idea to supplement and yes, there are studies relating vit D to testosterone levels . It will help lower your SHBG which in turn will allow more Free T to do its work for you. There are vit D receptors in virtually every cell in your body btw.

Most doc's seem to make that assumption that testing for T is not needed just because your younger. If you present symptoms, then it is warranted. Glad you had it done. You need to find out why your that low at such a young age. Any prior AAS usage? Prohormones? Thyroid issues? Finding the root of the problem and fixing it will definitely get you on the right track. Based on your height and weight you seem to be ectomorphic in structure. I was a natural ectomorph myself and diet/training is important in putting on weight/muscle. Spend some time in the Nutrition Forum here and also read all the stickies at the top of this forum to help educate yourself. Knowledge is power when dealing with doctors who don't fully grasp TRT protocols (like yours with a two week injection cycle (just say NO) and saying she can't write HCG . It is a treatment for hypogonadatropic hypogonadism and is right on the drug insert. Have her look it up.

As stated above, you need to find the cause of this. Examine all options before starting TRT as it is for life and requires a lot of discipline to do it correctly. Post up your results to we can all take a look and help out.

[redz]

Welcome, sorry to hear about your rough times. Hopefully the guys here can help you out.

[jdo8700]

Hey guys just got my other test results back and Im being schuduled an mri due to my high prolactin levels. Never had any AAS usage, nore prohormones, and i guess im getting my thyroid checked out durning the mri


FSH (5.2) 1.5 - 12.4
LH (3.2) 1.7 - 8.6
FREE TESTOSTERONE (DIRECT) (11.1) 9.3 - 26.5
TESTOSTERONE, SERUM (314) 348 - 1197
PROLACTIN (35.6) 4.0 - 15.2
VITAMIN D, 25-HYDROXY (52.4) 30.0 - 100.0
PTH, INTACT (17) 15 - 65
CALCIUM, SERUM (10.5) 8.7 - 10.2
TSH (3.000) 0.450 - 4.500
T4,FREE(DIRECT) (1.79) 0.82 - 1.77
TRIIODOTHYRONINE, FREE, SERUM (4.4) 2.0 - 4.4
THYROID PEROXIDASE (TPO) AB (10) 0 - 34
THYROID ANTITHYROGLOBULIN AB (<20) 0 - 40
THYROGLOBULIN, QN. (10.8) 0.5 - 55.0

[jdo8700]

And i have not had my estrogen checked

[GFA]

Prolactin level is really high. Possibly a prolactinoma.

[kelkel]

LH is low therefore so is your test. High prolactin so MRI is the correct course of action to rule in/out pituitary adenomas. TSH is also getting up there and may indicate hypothyroidism (under-active thyroid.) Vit D level is good. Very rare to see that these days. Post back up after your mri. Would like to know your results. Very interested.

[jdo8700]

Will post as soon as i get more info, i also been taking around 6,000 ui of vitamin d a day while getting as much sun as i can for about a month now, im sure it was alot lower before

[kelkel]

The D is working then. Vit D has receptors in virtually every cell in our bodies. It will also help lower shbg which will allow more free T to do its job.

[jdo8700]

turns out i do have a pituitary adenoma, it isnt to big, measuring 6mm on the widest side, she put me on Cabergoline to lower my prolactin level and wait 8-12 weeks to see if my testosterone comes up when the prolactin goes down

Anyone have any experience with this?

[jdo8700]

Hey guys just got some more test results that I took last week

CORTISOL - AM 23.1 (6.2 - 19.4)
ACTH, PLASMA 64.4 (7.2 - 63.3) pg/mL
INSULIN -LIKE GROWTH FACTOR I 325 (116 - 358) ng/mL
GROWTH HORMONE , SERUM <0.1 (0.0 - 2.9) ng/mL

my endo has ordered a dexamethasone suppression test, I guess to check for cushings syndrome

Anyone ever meet a very thin person with cushings syndrome?

[kelkel]

Yes. I happen to own one myself that shut down my hormone production (59 and dropping.) Caber is a good start to lower prolactin. What dosage schedule did she put you on? Prolactinomas, btw, are the most common type of pituitary tumor. At that size it is a mocroadenoma and surgery is not required. It sounds like you have a decent doc. Keep us posted on how your treatment progresses.

[shorty09]

hey guys would any of u guys be able to break down 147 miu/l to ng/ml im in aus an that the way the test hey i unsure on the math with it... i to also have high norm prolactin jus had a ct scan an was clear so thats all good news..thanks

[kelkel]

See if this helps shorty:

http://www.soc-bdr.org/rds/authors/u.../index_en.html

[Honkey_Kong]

Did they check your vision to make sure that tumor on your pituitary is not pressing on you ocular nerve? was it 6mm or 6 micrometers?

[jdo8700]

No vision check, and im not having any vision problems, the doctor told me it was very small but only said 6 mm on its widest side , ill ask her again when I see her to make sure

[jdo8700]

Oh and on the caber im on a .25 MG dose 2 times a week, taking it on Monday and Thursdays.

[shorty09]

thanks for that kel i was wondering also because estro spike will in turn cause prolactin to rise but was wondering if this could also work the other way around buy any chance? i have had a nandro an test e cycle before thats the only thing i can think of but my last bloods my e2 was lower than ref range but prolactin was up would that couse spike from work outs?

[kelkel]

jdo keep us posted on your progress on this thread.

shorty you have to start your own thread. We will all jump in with answers but it's not fair to the op. Start one, introduce yourself and fire away with questions. You'll get a lot of great answers. Welcome!

[Honkey_Kong]

No vision check, and im not having any vision problems, the doctor told me it was very small but only said 6 mm on its widest side , ill ask her again when I see her to make sure

They should still check your vision. just to make sure. You wont even notice the vision problem.

[jdo8700]

Passed the dexamethasone suppression test so no cushing syndrome, have to wait till June to see if my testosterone raises naturally

[jdo8700]

Got new blood work drawn up for my followup
TESTOSTERONE , SERUM 340
PROLACTIN 0.8

my body reacted well to caber, but the t levels haven't gone up , i probably spent about an hour trying to convince her to start me off on the injection cycle i wanted, she waved it off and told me first lets see how my body would react to androgel , she prescribed me 1 packet of 5G of androgel a day. she let me know if in 3 months i dont feel a difference she should put me on injections. Was a little disappointed to be put on gel, i know you kelkel have used this gel, was / is it worth it? What else do i have to be concerned of?

[jdo8700]

I also explained to the doctor that i was extremely hungry all the time now but i wasnt putting on any weight even after the large amounts of food i was eating so she rechecked my throid levels


TSH (4.880) 0.450 - 4.500 uIU/mL
T4,FREE(DIRECT) (1.49 0.82) - 1.77 ng/dL
TRIIODOTHYRONINE, FREE, SERUM 3.9 2.0 - 4.4 pg/mL

She is goin to start me on Levothyroxine 25 mcg

[Times Roman]

personally, i don't buy into 20 somethings getting into trt in general.

something about it just rubs me the wrong way.

like back in the day, and still even today, docs were prescribing ritalin as a way to modify behavior, as opposed to accrurately diagnosing a condition and treating it accordingly.

what i dont trust is the liberal administering of testosterone to young males that may or may not understand that (in your 20's) you will need to inject this shiit for the next 60+ years.

my .02