Blood Work (LH & FSH)

old Protocol:
Test - 60 mg 2x week
HCG - 350 mg 2x week
AI - none

old BW results
LH - 0.1 (1.7-8.6)
FSH - 0.2 (1.5-12.4)
total test - 678 (348-1197)
free test - 16 (8.7-25.1)
estradiol - 58.2 (7.6-42.6)

new protocol:
test - 110 mg 1x every 5 days
HCG - 350 mg 3x week
AI - 1 mg 2x week

new BW results
LH - 0.1 (1.7-8.6)
FSH - 0.2 (1.5-12.4)
total test - 1020 (348-1197)
free test - 29.5 (8.7-25.1)
estradiol - 17.7 (7.6-42.6)

Clearly my test is too high and i will lower to either 80 or 90 mg 1x every 5 days.
but what do I do about my low FSH and LH?
what do i need to do to get FSH and LH into range?

nothing, they will stay out of range as long as you are on trt.

I would reduce your ai slightly, when was your blood draw done in relation to your injections? At a low point or high point? That will determine whether you really need to lower test dose or not. If its at a low point then yes probably should lower it, if at high then no. But it also depends on how you feel i suppose.

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Originally Posted by double chicken

but what do I do about my low FSH and LH?
what do i need to do to get FSH and LH into range?

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I'm tempted to tell you to just take Menopur but instead I would suggest you talk with your TRT doctor about your overall protocol.

I think you should be careful with that amount of adex. You may continue to drive your E2 down to the floor. I'd back off a bit and retest. You really don't want to crash it. At a minimum I'd probably cut it in half and re-test in a month. Be careful. Less is more here.

Ecd interesting thought....he's already doing hcg and it works as a combo...

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Originally Posted by kelkel

Ecd interesting thought....he's already doing hcg and it works as a combo...

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I wasn't being serious - just trying to show that a little knowledge can be dangerous and that some guidance from a medical professional would be beneficial.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ecdysone

I wasn't being serious - just trying to show that a little knowledge can be dangerous and that some guidance from a medical professional would be beneficial.

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I am seeing a doctor for TRT, actually I am on my 3rd doctor for TRT due to the fact that none of them are very educated on the topic. Not really looking for you to prove a point with your sarcasm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SEOINAGE

nothing, they will stay out of range as long as you are on trt.

I would reduce your ai slightly, when was your blood draw done in relation to your injections? At a low point or high point? That will determine whether you really need to lower test dose or not. If its at a low point then yes probably should lower it, if at high then no. But it also depends on how you feel i suppose.

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Thanks Seo. I will definitely lower my AI and test again in a month. I definitely want to get my AI dialed in.
I will also check when my last injection was versus when blood was drawn and then report back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by double chicken

old Protocol:
Test - 60 mg 2x week
HCG - 350 mg 2x week
AI - none

old BW results
LH - 0.1 (1.7-8.6)
FSH - 0.2 (1.5-12.4)
total test - 678 (348-1197)
free test - 16 (8.7-25.1)
estradiol - 58.2 (7.6-42.6)

new protocol:
test - 110 mg 1x every 5 days
HCG - 350 mg 3x week
AI - 1 mg 2x week

new BW results
LH - 0.1 (1.7-8.6)
FSH - 0.2 (1.5-12.4)
total test - 1020 (348-1197)
free test - 29.5 (8.7-25.1)
estradiol - 17.7 (7.6-42.6)

Clearly my test is too high and i will lower to either 80 or 90 mg 1x every 5 days.
but what do I do about my low FSH and LH?
what do i need to do to get FSH and LH into range?

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Results on your new protocol look perfect to me.

I'd lower the HCG to 250ius week. How old are you?

LH and FSH is non-existent as you're on HRT and "shutdown".

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Originally Posted by Swifto

Results on your new protocol look perfect to me.

I'd lower the HCG to 250ius week. How old are you?

LH and FSH is non-existent as you're on HRT and "shutdown".

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I am 34. My LH and FSH were naturally low which is why I am on TRT. I waited until after having a baby before starting.

So I did my test injection Monday night and had blood work taken first thing Wednesday morning. Do you think I should dial back the mg of Testosterone?

What are your thoughts on my AI dosage?

Thanks Swifto!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by double chicken

I am seeing a doctor for TRT, actually I am on my 3rd doctor for TRT due to the fact that none of them are very educated on the topic. Not really looking for you to prove a point with your sarcasm.

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Are you saying that your doctor doesn't know that FSH/LH are always suppressed to near zero for his TRT patients? ...and that he recommended you take 2 mg Adex and 1000IU HCG each week?

Real point is that most here are not doctors so we try to be very differential giving medical advice to individuals whom are first glance seem not to be under the care of a physician.

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Originally Posted by ecdysone

Are you saying that your doctor doesn't know that FSH/LH are always suppressed to near zero for his TRT patients? ...and that he recommended you take 2 mg Adex and 1000IU HCG each week?

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That is exactly what i am telling you and it is not a he it is a she. The first doctor I saw didnt believe there was benefit to HCG. My second doctor told me that it didnt matter what my free test level was as long as my total test was high. Now I am on my third doctor and yes, this is what she prescribed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kelkel

I think you should be careful with that amount of adex. You may continue to drive your E2 down to the floor. I'd back off a bit and retest. You really don't want to crash it. At a minimum I'd probably cut it in half and re-test in a month. Be careful. Less is more here.

Ecd interesting thought....he's already doing hcg and it works as a combo...

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What dosage do you recommend for AI 0.5mg 2x a week?

Like Swifto said. Your numbers look good at that blood draw. The caveat is it is only a snapshot in time. If a secondary check shows similar E levels then you know your dialed in with your AI amount. I'm assuming it's one test only. From both personal experience and from many other members here I'd still say it's a high amount and MAY continue to drive levels down. .5 x 2 is a good idea in my humble opinion and then retest in a month. No fasting needed for E2 testing. If you stay where you are keep an eye on joint pain and libido which are indicators of low E.

Keep us in the loop. Like to know how it goes for you.

yep given when your test was drawn looks pretty good, question is how do you feel? I agree with others on halving the ai, and as for the hcg I don't really have an answer, I only take 250mgx2 each week, but i would prefer to be on an eod protocol for it.

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Originally Posted by SEOINAGE

yep given when your test was drawn looks pretty good, question is how do you feel? I agree with others on halving the ai, and as for the hcg I don't really have an answer, I only take 250mgx2 each week, but i would prefer to be on an eod protocol for it.

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Since my AI is 1mg. Instead of cutting pill in half can I just take it once a week. or maybe i could take 1 mg every 5 days along with my test injection?
In other words how often does it need to be taken to maintain levels?

I feel Great! my labido is through the roof but i do have knee joint pain.

maybe take day after test injection, but really what is going to matter is being consistent and then getting blood work to see where your e2 ends up. I personally haven't had to run an ai yet. but will be doing e2 check coming up soon.

Edit: the half life of arimidex is pretty short, so once a week the amount in your system will be much less at some point during the week than the peak. but can be timed with test i suppose.

Adex half life is around 72 hrs.

i agree with Kel and others regarding AI, splitting AI is better than taking it all at once. save your money and don't test your FSH and LH in the future, they will always be the same. good idea you have about lowering your test dose just a tad. less spikes = less e2 conversion.

the half life of anastrozole (arimidex brand name) is about 46 hours (source is Pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of anastrozole in pubertal boys with recent-onset gynecomastia.)

however! your testosterone levels are absolutely not stable on TRT. because of this, AI dosing can be tricky and very hard to get right. most people don't even need them. what makes you think you need an AI?

Personally I think all your numbers are awesome based on when the blood was drawn. Completly agree to break that pill in half (A.I.) and take twice a week rather than just once

Can't disagree with you HRT. I've seen it listed with a terminal half-life of 46.8 up to 72hrs. You raise another great point too with needing the AI. If the op can go without one (I do) your much better off as long as numbers are ok. Less = more.

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Originally Posted by HRTstudent

the half life of anastrozole (arimidex brand name) is about 46 hours (source is Pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of anastrozole in pubertal boys with recent-onset gynecomastia.)

however! your testosterone levels are absolutely not stable on TRT. because of this, AI dosing can be tricky and very hard to get right. most people don't even need them. what makes you think you need an AI?

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estradiol - 58.2 (7.6-42.6)
This was my level before starting arimidex. Not cool.

We're now telling ppl MOST dont need an AI on TRT?


i DO agree that bloodwork should determine the need and that i shouldnt be introduced without but still thought it was in the MINORITY those who WONT need an AI

so far I've seen most of us need it, at least at the beginning. i believe E2 conversion can be controlled about 90% simply by lowering the test dose and splitting it to more frequent administrations. i am doing blood work again soon to see how my eod test/hCG no AI is doing. but like I stated before i believe the conversion fades away in time.

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Originally Posted by bass

so far I've seen most of us need it, at least at the beginning. i believe E2 conversion can be controlled about 90% simply my lowering the test dose and splitting it to more frequent administrations. i am doing blood work again soon to see how my eod test/hCG no AI is doing. but like I stated before i believe the conversion fades away in time.

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exactly
my point
but i know in hrt defense that he and i both state that the majority of ppl dont belong to this site or are as informed and/or on low doses of gel...but we all know e follows to and e control is of the utmost importance

well I am moving forward with this protocol:

Test: 110 mg 1x every 5 days
HCG: 250 mg 3x week
AI: 0.5 mg 2x week

I will get bloodwork in a couple months and report back.

That looks good. Very interested to see your results! Good luck with it!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by double chicken

well I am moving forward with this protocol:

Test: 110 mg 1x every 5 days
HCG: 250 mg 3x week
AI: 0.5 mg 2x week

I will get bloodwork in a couple months and report back.

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My new BW results. BW was taken 4 days after last Testosterone injection

Total Test: 991 (348-1197)
Free Test: 27.6 (8.7-25.1)
Estradial: 25.5 (7.6-42.6)

Whadda ya think?

numbers look great

how do u feel

Pretty good, still get very tired BUT i think it is because I have a 4 month old.
my thyroid numbers are a little bit on low side as well but I am holding off on starting more meds. i will feel like a walking medicine cabinet.

numbers look good and you feel good. at the very least at this point you know for sure that any issues you have are not because your T is low.

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Originally Posted by HRTstudent

numbers look good and you feel good. at the very least at this point you know for sure that any issues you have are not because your T is low.

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Agreed! life is good. Should have started this 3 years earlier.

awesome! that must make all the bullshit we deal with worth it.

I'm telling you if I didn't hear so many positive stories about trt and believe it could be me I woulda quit this crap months ago! Been over half a year now but I think I'm on a better path now.