Here's my BW on testogel

[edmundo22]

Total T: 29.5 nmol/l
Free test: 2.17% nmo/l
Bio available: 55.4% nmol/l
FSH:2.8 mIU/ml
LH:2.9 mIU/ml
Prolcatin: 9.9 ng/ml
SHBC: 34.10 nmol/l
E2 37 pmol/l <<<<<<<<<<< (40-160) pmol/L or 10.8 pg/ml 14-55 pg/ml
DHEA 17.0 nmol/L (3.4-34.7)
LIPID SCREEN
Cholestertol: 5.2 nmol/l
Triglyceride: 1.08 nmol/l
HDL: 1.43 nmol/l
LDL: 3.15 nmol/l

LIVER PROFILE
AST: 16 U/L
ALT: 30 U/L
GGT: 40 U/L
Globulin: 18 g/l
Albumin: 47 g/l
Protein: 65 g/l

Total PSA: 0.9 ng/ml Glucose, fasting 4.9 nmol/l

[sirupate]

I think we need the normal ranges to have a better idea of where you stand. I forget...are you on the starting dose of Testogel? How you feel is important...it is possible you need a bigger dose, or also that you don't absorb gels very well. But let's see pre-gel numbers and the normal ranges for your lab work.

[Vettester]

Ed, glad you are seeing some progress, but there are still some voids that really make it hard to assess your program ... I think your total serum would equal approx. 850 on the ng/ml scale, but I may have calculated it wrong (someone double check me please).

The labs are minimal and only paints a small picture. Needed is free & bio test (or at least SHBG & albumin), E2 sensitive, DHEA, etc.

Is this your first follow up since starting the testogel? If so, how long have you been doing it? Depending on the length of time and such, I'm actually surprised that the LH lab isn't a bit lower. Not that it's producing a large amount, but most guys on TRT usually are < 2. Hell, I was below 2 going into HRT, and if I tested today it would be zilch <.01

[edmundo22]

Still waiting on free test/SHBG they take a little longer, this what the clinic are testing for, FSH / LH / Prolactin / PSA / FBC / fasting glucose / Lipids / LFT.

first follow up since testogel its been 3 months now, will post pre testogel results when I get them.

[zaggahamma]

subscribed waiting for vette questions

and also wuts the dose of testogel

[edmundo22]

testoegl 50mg/5

[zaggahamma]

if total translates to 850 like vette calculated that is real good number wise....

u must have had another thread i remember your screen name? feel good as before but wut is before...

are we just looking at numbers here? why the new thread?

[edmundo22]

Jpk Feel live absolute crap just as I was before I started even though the number is high

[Vettester]

Ed, I did a double check and the 850 on the total serum is what I still come up with. That is more than sufficient for a protocol level, but a lot of it also depends on the free testosterone.

As I've said to others before, testosterone isn't the "be all, end all" to why someone might feel good or not. There's a myriad of variables, which could be or not be hormonal related. For starters, you need to get a complete panel ... E2, free & bio T, DHEA, Cortisol, Thyroid, ... Beyond hormones, you need to really get a good look at your CBC's and lipids. Elevated ALT's & AST's is an example of something that can make you feel like crap.

Also, on the prolactin, I personally would be happier seeing it below 7, but that's JMO. Just out of curiosity, has your medical team ever ordered an MRI to exam the pituitary region? It might just be me, but I would just think that you would be seeing more suppression with the axis by being on TRT for 3 months. Wondering if you have your baseline LH/FSH labs?

[edmundo22]

Vette can't thank you enough for your expertise on all this. I'll post up my bassline LH/FSH went there sent assuming bassline means pre testogel?

Out of the others that you mentioned still waiting in free/bio T, SHBC, LIPIDS, PSA, FBC, FASTING GLUCOSE, I'll ask about E2, DHEA, CORTISOL when I can

The endo checked my thyroid before n said its fine, the guy in the clinic asked had I ever had n MRI so that's something I can look into, would an MRI show something that a blood test wouldn't?.

Hate coming back to this but its important to me, having zero interest in sex for 12 years and then having it flood back for one month on testogel, if not testosterone it as to be hormone related just hope I can find what it is.

[zaggahamma]

Vette can't thank you enough for your expertise on all this. I'll post up my bassline LH/FSH went there sent assuming bassline means pre testogel?

Out of the others that you mentioned still waiting in free/bio T, SHBC, LIPIDS, PSA, FBC, FASTING GLUCOSE, I'll ask about E2, DHEA, CORTISOL when I can

The endo checked my thyroid before n said its fine, the guy in the clinic asked had I ever had n MRI so that's something I can look into, would an MRI show something that a blood test wouldn't?.

Hate coming back to this but its important to me, having zero interest in sex for 12 years and then having it flood back for one month on testogel, if not testosterone it as to be hormone related just hope I can find what it is.

important to all of us bro
so this HAS improved then?

[edmundo22]

No Jpk it came and went in about 6 weeks, hopefully the bio available test will shed some light on what's going on, still waiting on it.

[zaggahamma]

I see...you felt better then same as before like MANY on gel claim
Still like vette stated complete bw ...go from there

[edmundo22]

Well its just free test that's to come back, is the short term effect of the gel a common thing Jpk??

If I knew for a fact that injecting test would make me feel better Id order it straight away?

When I read the sticky of how long before TRT starts to work I thought the effects would be long term, can anyone please help me out here?

Back in the pits of depression

[edmundo22]

Anyone??

[zaggahamma]

yes..i've seen countless posts claiming that...some rolled a little longer with the gel...myself, i had bloodwork come back LOWER than pre-TRT after dosing on TRT but was still feeling good but got on injects shortly after and did even better..

like vette stated..need not only free T but thyroid numbers , etc. to get a better look..

but yes...i have seen many a posts like yours

[edmundo22]

Jpk with blood work aside could it be as simple as switching to shots?

[Vettester]

Ed, way too much emphasis on testosterone. Get the other panels and let's go from there ...

Don't know if you answered or not, but was an MRI ever in the picture with your doctors?

[zaggahamma]

Jpk with blood work aside could it be as simple as switching to shots?

problem is...your total t level is good...so no, there is a reason why/something deflecting that positive test level...if it was the delivery method ie in this case the gel not working then I wouldn't think your total t would be that good...so don't see how injected would b any better...sorry its not what you want to.hear...I can tell u one thing i don't see any harm if u tried just to clear hour mind...your gonna need those e2 , free t, thyroid numbers ASAP
Best of luck with it bro

[edmundo22]

Its only free test that's to come back, there was no check for e2, DHEA, CORTISOL, I'd be happy to have an MRI done but again have to convince my doc its necessary.

Thank you again for your input guys.

[zaggahamma]

u dont need a doc to get blood work...look for my old post "bloodwork without presciption" or "bloodwork without rx"

an mri should have already been ordered...DO THEY EVEN HAVE A REMEDY OR SUGGESTION FOR YOU? or are they saying "your low T, now get the fvck outta here u filthy animal!" ?

[edmundo22]

Ok Iv educated my self a bit about E2, Don't know why the clinic didn't ask for it in the blood test, Jpk only after reading your posts properly.

Feeling hopeful again, will get the rest of these bloods asap.

Double check
E2
Free&bio
DHEA
Cortisol
Thyroid
Cbc

Anything else that I'm missing?

[zaggahamma]

your list would be fine but heres some more that are good to know including what you already listed

• Total Testosterone
• Bioavailable Testosterone (AKA “Free and Loosely Bound”)
• Free Testosterone (if Bioavailable T is unavailable)
• SHBG
• DHT (perhaps) *Gel user especially pay attention to this.
• Estradiol (specify “sensitive” assay for males)
• Prolactin
• Cortisol
• Thyroid Panel
• CBC
• Comprehensive Metabolic Panel
• Lipid Profile
• PSA (age dependent)
• IGF -1, IGFBP-3 (if HGH therapy is being considered)

[edmundo22]

Cheers for that Jpk hope you get better soon, free test should be back by tomorrow and I'll get the rest of these bloods as soon as I can, hope to get my life back too

[zaggahamma]

Preciate

[dogfight]

hey brother i havent been on in a long while but i missed it. so lets get on with it! im dogfight and im hearing sexual dissinterest. ok reality check; are you psychologically stepping on your dick? Is your confidence down? are you depressed? if no to all those then try some proviron if you know where to find it. if i remember correctly it has been used to treat sexual dis interest at 150 to 300mgs a day.

[edmundo22]

This is the result I got using the calculator

Free T: 0.641 nmol/l = 2.17 %

Bio available: 16.4 nmol/l = 55.4%

[edmundo22]

2.30% free test doesn't sound good can anyone shed some light on this?

[Vettester]

Ed, 2.3% on free test isn't bad. 2% to 3% would be the target range to get to. Sure, I guess if someone wanted to nit pick at it, you could lower your SHBG a tiny bit and raise your free test slightly, but truthfully IMO that's not needed. Especially considering that you have 850 on your serum, 2.3% is fine!

Not sure if I saw it or not, but what about Thyroid tests? This is an area that can have negative effects if it's out of balance. As I said earlier, testosterone isn't the be-all, end-all to determine one's well being. It's a main factor amongst others. I think you need to dig deeper into the thyroid and cortisone scene for starters; probably consider running the gamut on hormones, lipids, CBC's & metabolic. Also, did I miss the E2 assay?

[edmundo22]

Vette out of everything you mentioned the clinic only checked for lipids, my first thyroid check came back fine, I'm trying to get my fourth and final blood test for the full panel that Jpk listed, didn't get E2 checked last time around as the clinic didn't ask for it, could it be a case of high estrogen for zero libido and loss of well being??

Was hoping when my total T came back at 850 that maybe there was something preventing it from working properly that would show up in the free / bio test results.

This may or may not be relevant but the month I was feeling the beneficial effects of the gel I was getting spots that were not there before and spontaneous erections which were awesome, now nothing.

Thanks again for your input Vette.

[Vettester]

Yea, I think the E2 could be playing a HUGE role in this. Also, if you can get some caber, look at lowering your prolactin down a bit, at least to 5 or 6 if possible. That shit will play games with you too on the libido. I know when I hit around your range on prolactin, I couldn't get the job finished for the life of me. A little dopamine agonist like Caber (I mean a little) will fix that up just fine. But, before that, get the other panels, then layout the WHOLE plan on what steps you're going to take to make it better.

[edmundo22]

Again can't thank you enough for your expertise on this Vette, Gp is sick of giving me blood tests but I'll get a full panel done ASAP, hopefully E2 will show up something I can correct.

Can anyone give me some feed back on the 53.9% bio available test, think you might have missed that Vette.

[Vettester]

Ed, as you probably gathered, the bio available test is a combination of your free testosterone & the testosterone that is loosely (or weakly) bound to albumin. Again, in your case, having a 850 total score, I don't think you're doing too bad at all. If you were sitting at 450 total serum and had the same free and bio, then maybe it might be a different story.

Now, with that said, let's see where the E2 sensitive assay comes in, then take it from there. The score of 34 on the SHBG can easily come down a bit, which would raise your free & bio %'s. However, I don't think that's needed just quite yet. Again, my suspicions are that it's more of a E2 issue at this point.

[edmundo22]

....

[edmundo22]

Finally got my E2 and its actually deficient , 37 pmol/l normal range is (40-160) pmol/l.

Very happy about this, it shows this is most likely the cause of my symptoms for the past 14 years and can have it corrected, if taking testosterone usually increases E2 then before taking test my E2 would probably would have been much lower then this but theres no way to know cuz the endo never checked E2 to begin with.

Please feel free to give me your thoughts on this especially on how estrogen can be increased, made appointment with my GP and then get referred to an endo to sort this out.

[zaggahamma]

never seen and e2 range like that

bump

[edmundo22]

Exactly JPK, he told me over the phone it was 37, didn't get the measurement at the time so assumed it was ng/dl, just waiting for the Vets to comment

[Vettester]

Like jpk, I don't recognize the ref. range. It would be a lot easier to interpret if this were a E2 sensitive assay.

[edmundo22]

Jpk seems iv misread u once again thought you meant the result not the range, vette I specifcaly asked for sensitive assay but this is what I got, not sure what to make of this unless a new range as recently been set here, assuming you have seen e2 given in pmol before, whats the general range for pmol?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estradiol#Measurement
This range says 50-200 pmolL for estradiol which would put me even lower

[edmundo22]

I can't believe this think the hospital messed up, there was an O before estradiol which I thought was just a typo so this is oestradiol serum not estradiol?? are they the same thing? Please help me out here cuz I'm freaking out just a little bit