Latest Blood Work results after finishing the OTC Anti Aromatase.

[killergoalie]

Okay, latest update on Blood Work!

Just finished the bottle of the OTC anti aromatase, "Anti-A". Conclusion: MASSIVE FAILURE!! I chalk it up to live and learn!

I began taking it (2 pills per day as per instructions) on April 26th.

My Total Testosterone level at the time was 622.4 ng/dl from a range of 241 - 827 ng/dl. My E2 level was 50.1 from a range of < 42.5.

On May 8, my Total Testosterone level reached it's highest level of 668.5 ng/dl from a range of 241 - 827 ng/dl.

On May 17 my Total Testosterone level fell to 484.1 ng/dl from a range of 241 - 827 ng/dl.

Got my latest Blood Work yesterday, May 25th.

Total Testosterone: 452.4 ng/dl from a range of 241 - 827 ng/dl.

Estradiol (E2): 79 from a range of < 42.5!!

So basically my Total testosterone fell - 32% from it's highest level, while my E2 rose 58% while taking the SUPPOSED OTC Anti Aromatase!!

My diet even got better during this time.

Yes it's my own damn fault for stupidly thinking an OTC "scientifically proven" Anti Aromatase would actually work!

[zaggahamma]

thanks

anyone else try "anti A"?

is that correct killer, its not anti E?

[killergoalie]

No prob. Hope it helps others from not falling for their false claims. (Unless I was just the exception to the rule.)

This is the product here:

http://www.supplementsource.ca/produ...20anti%20a.htm

[HRTstudent]

looks like a typical supplement gimmick to be blunt...

don't leave your well being in the hands of unregulated supplement companies, for your own sake.

[Simon1972]

its a zinc supplement with tribulus judging from the website picture - active ingrediants tell the story.

the blurb says its patent protected- the boxed picture says it patent pending- conflict.

it says it prevents coversion of test to dht-
dht is more androgenic than test- this may explain your overall levels dropping

why didnt you try clomid or nolvadex instead?

[killergoalie]

why didnt you try clomid or nolvadex instead?

I didn't want to add another prescription drug (If those two are in fact prescription drugs) to my already overloaded prescription drug intake arsenal. Also, I wanted to try arimidex to lower my E2 levels, but my Dr. can't legally prescribe it. I was going to buy some liquid anastrozole from a compound pharmacy, but since I was given the bottle of Anti-A for free to try, I thought I'd try it first.

Also I wouldn't know where to get clomid or nolvadex here in Vancouver, B.C. Canada. (I don't really "trust" customs to allow anything like that through the border without asking too many questions.)

Hey, I admit, it's my own stupidity.

Now I'll have to wait for another month before I can afford the liquid anastrozole. Luckily I see my endo before then, so hopefully when he sees my latest Blood Work results, he can see that I need to lower my E2 even moreso than before when it was still high, but he refused to do anything about it.

He said if I lose weight (which I know I have to) it will probably help lower my E2 level...or at least lower my level of aromatase enzymes. Sounds great in theory, but how in the F**K can I lose the weight if I don't have the energy to get out of bed...let alone to EXERCISE?!! But both my family Dr. and my Endo can't get this through their thick skulls!!

Which is why I wanted an A.I. so it WOULD lower my estradiol level (from 50.1 when this all started) so that I would hopefully have the energy to workout/exercise. Which the testosterone injections should have helped give me if my E2 levels weren't so damn high!!

Again yes, it's my own stupidity, but hopefully it's not too late to turn things around. I honestly hate feeling so lethargic all the time. This is exactly the same way I felt before I started TRT...and was the main reason I went to my Dr. in the first place. I know it takes time, but I should have felt SOME benefit from it by now.

[Simon1972]

prescription drugs go thru rigourous testing before being sold in pharmacies as they are a drug. OTC herbal remedies dont.

alot of the guys here use clomid nolvadex arimidex as sold by the forum sponsor without problems. you will find endo dont know anything- they do there schooling and treat diabetes sufferers, and have little to no experience in male hormones. im going thru the same issues as you are- im getiing an MRI tomoroow to make sure im not suffereing a pituatry tumor ( i have low FSH and LH levels) - if all is good im going to attempt a clomid or nolvadex restart .

[killergoalie]

Thanks, Simon. Best of luck with your situation.

It's not that I don't "trust" drugs, I just don't want to always have to rely on them. I hate taking ANY medication if I don't have to. I'm willing to try arimidex...either in liquid, or in pill form to lower my E2 levels, but as I eluded to, because of my financial situation that will have to wait at least another month.

Why couldn't the testosterone work like all the feedback said it did? "It's the best thing I ever did!! I felt like crap, and now I feel as if I'm 25 again...full of piss and vinegar!" My girlfriend/wife/both can't believe the change in me! They tell me I'm like a new man!! etc etc etc" It sounded so wonderful. I couldn't wait for the Dr. to jab that needle in my ass. Now I'm thinking if it was worth it at all?

[Simon1972]

testosterone injections are always a last resort- it is always a temporary measure- once you stop you will back to normal or worse as your htpa will be suppressed or shutdown.
i think you have too many aromataze enzymes in your body- taking testosterone at levels that you naturally produce anyway will maintain your current estrogen levels, taking more than you naturally produce (depending on your bodies make-up of enzymes) will increase estrogen with a increase of overall test.

you need to stop testosterone converting- thats the challenge.

the best alternative is a htpa restart- that is to get your pituatry to increase lh and fsh permanantly- from what i read- you could be getting a negative feedback blah blah (read scientific jargon) that supresses your hormones. hopefully that kick starts your system- testosterone increases, estrogen ratio to test balances out ( loose fat if you can)

im a complete novice noob when it comes to this stuff but im hoping clomid or nolva restart is a way to adjust most of my hormones so they re-balance and lift to a level for a man of my age....

the practice is like pct with steroids. get your H -Hypathalmas, P- pituatry, T-testes, A-axis in balance- yours may not be in balance and a pct protocol may fix that...from what i read 12.5 mg of clomid for 3 months is all you need tapered down to 6 mg for the last two weeks to prevent estrogen rebound.

keep researching- see if you can make sense of it all. i know i dont!

[killergoalie]

I'll see what my endo says when I see him next month. Our Gov't medical plan here is so screwed up...they don't offer, or pay for half of the tests that are required. They don't offer the sensitive assay for males Estradiol test. They won't pay for the bioavailable testosterone test if your total testosterone isn't between 4 - 10 nmol/L.

When I started TRT, my total test level was 40.3 ng/dl...the lowest my Dr. had ever seen in any patient. Hopefully we can figure something out...SOON!!

[Simon1972]

look up "hpta restart" , im researching it as we speak, i think its worth a look at. if your body is able to get back in balance- this is what you want.

[killergoalie]

I just googled "HPTA restart" myself, and have to sift through all the results to find one that isn't a discussion on a forum, but rather one that explains in lamen's terms exactly what it is.

Right now I think my hormones/body is just so F**KED up I'm scared if I start something else, it'll just screw it up even worse. Esp if I have to ingest another 2, or 3 powerful hormonal type drugs into it. It would have been so simple if my Dr. would have just prescribed some Arimidex/Anastrozole to keep my Estradiol levels in check. (After lowering them of course). But NOOOOOOOOOOOO that would have been too F**KING easy!!

What I don't understand is, he claims that if he were to prescribe arimidex/anastrozole, he could lose his license. But it's okay for him to prescribe testosterone. But it's a Medical, and Scientific FACT that if one raises one's testosterone level, their ESTROGEN level ALSO RISES!! How much depends on the person's level of aromatase enzyme. Since my estrogen (E2) level was already over the acceptable range, and because of my being overweight, it's only COMMON SENSE to come to the conclusion that I would have an over whelming amount of aromatase enzyme, thus my E2 levels would rise even HIGHER!!

Yes losing weight WOULD help, but in order for me to lose ENOUGH weight for it to have enough of an effect, and lower my E2 levels to where they should be, that would take at least 6 months to a year (if not longer), provided I'd have the ENERGY to actually exercise enough to lose the weight...which because of my ultra high E2 levels, I DO NOT have! But for some reason, my Dr's can't get this through their thick skulls!

Anyway, I've been off that stupid @#%$ OTC anti aromatase crap since Thursday, and I'll be getting another blood test to check my testosterone levels this week, so I'll see if they've gone up, or continue to go down.

[killergoalie]

One more thing. If an HPTA-Restart would send my hormone levels...esp my testosterone levels back to where they were before I started TRT, that would be a stupid thing for me to do, considering my test level was 40.3 before I started TRT. So why would I want to go back to that? Obviously my body wasn't producing testosterone on it's own, which is why I NEEDED to go on TRT in the first place.

I'm ALMOST at the point where I'm about to say "F**K IT, and just give up altogether! I started this because I WANTED to change my life! I wanted my LIFE back again! Or at least some semblance that things are going in the right direction. A LITTLE BIT of energy at least! But no...NOTHING!! I am so pissed off right now, it's not even funny!

[killergoalie]

Sorry, double post.

[Simon1972]

i sense your frustration, but get back on track, the truths are that drs know jack shit about hormones. i wont go on about how cr@p my dr is. apparently LH is a female hormone so why did i want it tested for ???

the best info is here on these forums- the Vets know their stuff-

dont be scared of nolvadex or clomid- i will send you a link with some good info.

nolvadex to bind to estrogen receptors -the lack of estrogen binding will send a message to the hypathamas indicating an estrogen deficiency tehreby increasing testosterone- your estrogen levels will increase as well but wont bind until you stop taking nolvadex, this is when your now high estrogen levels will flood the receptors- giving you estroogen side effects - man boobs and fat.

to prevent the sides taper down the dosages over a long period- your body will adjust the estrogen down to match testosterone.

to help things along i think an AI aromatise inhibito added at the last two weeks of cycle would help.( just a guess)

from what ive been reading alot and i mean ALOT of men here need a protocol to follow to restart their HTPA and keep the side effects down- i wouldnt have an idea where to start , dosages etc..hope someone can make a sticky - you are the third person i have read that needs it this week.

[Simon1972]

i sense your frustration, but get back on track, the truths are that drs know jack shit about hormones. i wont go on about how cr@p my dr is. apparently LH is a female hormone so why did i want it tested for ???

the best info is here on these forums- the Vets know their stuff-

dont be scared of nolvadex or clomid- i will send you a link with some good info.

nolvadex to bind to estrogen receptors -the lack of estrogen binding will send a message to the hypathamas indicating an estrogen deficiency tehreby increasing testosterone- your estrogen levels will increase as well but wont bind until you stop taking nolvadex, this is when your now high estrogen levels will flood the receptors- giving you estroogen side effects - man boobs and fat.

to prevent the sides taper down the dosages over a long period- your body will adjust the estrogen down to match testosterone.

to help things along i think an AI aromatise inhibito added at the last two weeks of cycle would help.( just a guess)

from what ive been reading alot and i mean ALOT of men here need a protocol to follow to restart their HTPA and keep the side effects down- i wouldnt have an idea where to start , dosages etc..hope someone can make a sticky - you are the third person i have read that needs it this week.

[killergoalie]

My Endo told me he wants to work on one thing at a time. First - raise my testosterone to "normal" levels, then go from there. Well they weren't at a great level when it was 668, but that was a helluva lot better than 40.3, so it seemed as if it was going in the right direction, and I was on the right track.

Obviously taking the OTC supposed Anti aromatase was a stupid thing to do, and sent things headed into the wrong direction. Hopefully now that I've stopped, things will start going in the right direction, and if my Dr. won't prescribe arimidex, I'll buy it through the compound pharmacy, and hopefully it will be legitimate, and will help lower my estrogen (Estradiol) level. Then hopefully, I will have the energy to start exercising, and working out again, and thus will begin to lose weight, and keep the ball rolling in the right direction.

I'm sure HPTA-Restart is a very expensive endeavor, and since I'm on a fixed income, I have to try to be as economical as I can be. I realize it IS my health, but facts are facts, and the fact of the matter is, I have to spend my money very wisely.

[killergoalie]

That's BETTER!!

After 3 consecutive Blood Tests had my Total Testosterone level dropping 38% in the past 3 weeks, going from a high of 668 ng/dl down to 452.4 ng/dl as of last Friday, my latest BW today showed a Total Testosterone level of 631.1 ng/dl. All from a range of 241 - 827 ng/dl.

I've also been off of that @#%$ OTC fake anti aromatase B.S. crap I took last month for a week.

I've had 2 40mg injections of test-cyp since I stopped taking that.

I'll be getting my estradiol tested in a couple of weeks, so hopefully it will have gone down somewhat also.

[GFA]

Just get the l dex from board sponsor. It works well. My e2 dropped from 56 to 11 after a month using only .5 mg a week. I dropped my dosage to .25 mg a week. One vial will last over a year for me.

[Brohim]

KG what did the Doc say as to why your TT was 40? Pituitary?

[killergoalie]

KG what did the Doc say as to why your TT was 40? Pituitary?

They never told me why it was so low. When I see my Endo next month, I'll ask about it.

As far as getting the l dex from the board sponsor, I think I'm going to get some via mail order from a local (Victoria, B.C.) outlet via C.O.D. That way I can pay cash, since I don't have a CC, and also don't have to worry about any possible Customs crap. But will try the same dosage that GFA uses.

[Brohim]

KG you need to address the underlying cause of your high E2 wh ich is being overweight. You can lose weight by diet alone. Spend some time in the nutrition section and get a gameplan. This will greatly help with your E2 problem. As you get your TRT dialed in and get your energy levels back you can then add in a workout program.

[killergoalie]

KG you need to address the underlying cause of your high E2 wh ich is being overweight. You can lose weight by diet alone. Spend some time in the nutrition section and get a gameplan. This will greatly help with your E2 problem. As you get your TRT dialed in and get your energy levels back you can then add in a workout program.

Trust me, I've been working on my diet. Having had type 2 diabetes for several years, I know all about a "healthy diet", and what I should, and should NOT be eating. I just "fall off the wagon" every so often for a little while, especially when I am depressed, or have things on my mind, but I usually get back on track soon enough. This time though, it's been a little tougher to do so. Things just seem to be going fairly negative in my life lately for far too long, and it's really getting to me.

Things are just taking way too long to happen in a positive manner. I am not impatient, I just HATE TO WAIT!! Drive or Get off the road! Time waits for no man! No lollygagging allowed! You snooze, you lose! Life is too short to wait! etc etc.

[HRTstudent]

not that this is you, but even with a good diet and low bf some people, like myself, can convert T to E2 quite a bit. I have around a 32" waist and eat pretty well with almost no simple sugars except once a week, and my e2 went above range on 4 pumps of androgel.

[killergoalie]

not that this is you, but even with a good diet and low bf some people, like myself, can convert T to E2 quite a bit. I have around a 32" waist and eat pretty well with almost no simple sugars except once a week, and my e2 went above range on 4 pumps of androgel.

Man, that sucks! You seem to be doing everything "right", yet your E2 still went up. I'd be like, WTF?!! I know every person is unique, but damn, give a guy a break! (referring to you).

[killergoalie]

Well, I had some new BW done. (Final blood work until I see my Dr. Next Thursday...for both my Diabetes (Type 2), and my TRT.)

On May 25, after I finished the bottle of the useless OTC Anti-Aromatase "Anti-A" my BW results were:

Total testosterone: 452.4 ng/dl from a range of 241 - 827 ng/dl. A drop of 32% from my highest level while on TRT.

Estradiol: 79 pg/ml from a range of < 42.5 pg/ml. An increase of 58% from my previous Estradiol test.

Latest bloodwork results, taken June 11th:

Total testosterone: 616.7 ng/dl from a range of 241 - 827 ng/dl. Which is the exact same level as my previous test on June 1st.

Estradiol: 91.8 pg/ml from a range of < 42.5 pg/ml.

So while my testosterone level didn't go up during my last 4 injections, my E2 level increased substantially.

If my Dr. doesn't give me something for it, I'm definitely going to order some liquid arimidex from somewhere. Probably from a local online source.

My estradiol level is really pissing me off!

[HRTstudent]

Similar happened to me. I eventually upped the dose and got an on an AI that made things "better" but still far from ideal for me. I actually took the estradiol down too low, but I was growing boobs so I was probably overly aggressive. I definitely aromatize more than average and you very well may too.

[killergoalie]

Thanks for the input, HRTstudent. That sucks man. Glad yours is at least starting to improve. I have a lot of bodyfat, and I'm working on reducing that, but it's extremely hard to exercise when I'm so bloody tired all the time. Even after I get 10-12 hrs. of sleep, I'm still constantly yawning, and wanting to do nothing but sleep.

I'm pleased, although not thrilled with my total test level...considering I'm doing 40mg test-cyp injections SubQ 3x per week, but my E2 level just sucks.

I think I'm like you, and definitely aromatize more than average.

What I don't get is that my Dr. says he can't legally prescribe Arimidex or else he could lose his license. (Unless I was a female who had breast cancer.) Yet he can prescribe testosterone.

Well it's a KNOWN SCIENTIFIC, AND MEDICAL FACT that if you increase your testosterone level, your estrogen (E2/Estradiol) level will also increase! How much depends on the amount of aromatase enzyme your body has/produces, but it will still increase. MEN do not want their estrogen (E2/Estradiol) level to increase. Not only does it present negative side effects, it also diminishes the effect of the testosterone.

So why then should/would it be illegal for a Dr. (in B.C. Canada) to prescribe something that should/would prevent this from happening? It doesn't make sense!! Especially when there is something that he can prescribe that does exactly what needs to be done.

*shakes head.

But like I mentioned above, if he won't give me a prescription for Arimidex, I'll buy the liquid arimidex/anastrozole from a local online source.

[steroid.com 1]

^^^^There are over seas pharmacies where you can purchase legit Anastrozole.

IM me with your personal email address and I will help you if you wish.

[HRTstudent]

Thanks for the input, HRTstudent. That sucks man. Glad yours is at least starting to improve. I have a lot of bodyfat, and I'm working on reducing that, but it's extremely hard to exercise when I'm so bloody tired all the time. Even after I get 10-12 hrs. of sleep, I'm still constantly yawning, and wanting to do nothing but sleep.

I'm pleased, although not thrilled with my total test level...considering I'm doing 40mg test-cyp injections SubQ 3x per week, but my E2 level just sucks.

I think I'm like you, and definitely aromatize more than average.

What I don't get is that my Dr. says he can't legally prescribe Arimidex or else he could lose his license. (Unless I was a female who had breast cancer.) Yet he can prescribe testosterone.

Well it's a KNOWN SCIENTIFIC, AND MEDICAL FACT that if you increase your testosterone level, your estrogen (E2/Estradiol) level will also increase! How much depends on the amount of aromatase enzyme your body has/produces, but it will still increase. MEN do not want their estrogen (E2/Estradiol) level to increase. Not only does it present negative side effects, it also diminishes the effect of the testosterone.

So why then should/would it be illegal for a Dr. (in B.C. Canada) to prescribe something that should/would prevent this from happening? It doesn't make sense!! Especially when there is something that he can prescribe that does exactly what needs to be done.

*shakes head.

But like I mentioned above, if he won't give me a prescription for Arimidex, I'll buy the liquid arimidex/anastrozole from a local online source.

I'm really not too sure about the laws in CAN. However, my gut tells me this is a cop-out on his part. In the USA, we have what's called "off label" usage and not only is it totally legal, but it is very common too. It seems foolish that nobody in CAN gets prescribed off-label usage. And besides... it's not like they even have the FDA so why would they borrow our/USA guidelines and then impose their own rules? Just doesn't pass the smell test.

[killergoalie]

Thanks, HRTstudent. I'm going to mention "Off Label" usage to my Dr., and see what he says. For some reason our laws here are weird. Esp regarding medical issues. Hell, we can't even get the sensitive assay Estradiol test for males here. They say it's only for research purposes. WTF?!!