HRT Questions reguarding gyno and other issues

[Mr Tick]

Well to make this really long story short ill give a brief summery and if someone asks ill elaborate more on a issue. Im 28 Now 178lb 10.5%BF All body fat references are measured with fat calipers.

I started seeing the Doc back in March of 11.
3/24/11 Bloodwork
TSH = 1.760 Range .450-4.50
T4 =1.31 Range .82-1.77
Triiodothyronine, Free Serum = 3.5 Range 2.0-4.4
Reverse T3 = 233 Range 90-3530
Testosterone = 457 Range 249-836
Estradiol = 17.7 Range 7.6-42.6
DEHA = 221.5 Range 160-449
SHBG 32.7 Range 14.5-48.

When i went back for lab results i was given Clomiphene at 50mg a day for 7 days.
4/6/11 Bloodwork POST Clomiphene
Testosterone Serum = 787 Range 249-836
Estradiol = 33.7 Range 7.6-42.6
SHBG = 48.7 Range 14.5-48.4

5/18/2011 I was put on Vitamins trying to get T Levels up taking Zinc 50MG, Vitamin A 50,000 IU, Boron 3MG a day

8/16/11 Bloodwork BEEN ON Vitamins 3 months (i noticed a little fat building up in chest and mid section)
Testosterone Serum = 379 Range 249-836
Estradiol = 21.5 Range 7.6-42.6
SHBG = 41.1 Range 14.5-48.4
He put me on HCG 500IU M,W,F and told to keep taking vitamins


9/1/11 About the date i really started getting sick of this fat in chest area and no libido and ED problems


10/4/12 Bloodwork Was on HCG 500iu M,W,F and had been still taking vitamins. Body weight was about 162
Testosterone Serum = 813 Range 249-836
Prolactin = 5.6 Range 4.0-15.2
Estradiol = 31.4 Range 7.6-42.6
IGF-1 238 Range 117- 329
SHBG = 39.6 Range 14.5-48.4


11/1/11 Fed up with not feeling like my self. Decided to make an appointment and ask about using supplemental T

11/7/11Bloodwork Body weight was about 168
Testosterone Serum = 526 Range 249-836
Estradiol = 32.8 Range 7.6-42.6
SHBG = 35.7 Range 14.5-48.4
I was told to up my Zinc to 60Mg a day to keep Estradiol Levels from rising. Also i asked to be put on supplemental injectable Testosterone. Was given Test Cyp 100mg once a week


11/11/11 I started taking HCG 250iu 3X a week.

12/14/11 Bloodwork Day before Testosterone Shot. At this point im about 178Lbs.
DHEA = 191.7 Range 160-449
Testosterone Serum = 692 Range 249-836
Estradiol = 54.1 Range 7.6-42.6
SHBG = 34 Range 14.5-48.4

12/16/11 Bloodwork Day POST Testosterone Shot
Testosterone Serum = 920 Range 249-836
Estradiol = 46.1 Range 7.6-42.6
SHBG = 40.8 Range 14.5-48.4


At this point i have fat around my chest and mid section while being 11%FB. It is very noticeable around my nipple area but no hard lumps. Just a sliver of fat thats very easy for me to see.


Side note. Dr Crisler says that even tho HCG alone will raise T levels Most people dont feel the benefits on supplemental T. My HCG alone seemed to cause a lot of this fat in my niple/chest/mid section

1/12/12 I was put on Letrozole .1mg for 4 days the .1mg once a week
1/18/12 Started taking HCG 200iu 3X Week. Trying to reduce the hcg effect on my T levels and hopefully some of the E conversion & Fat

2/24/12 Bloodwork
Testosterone Serum = 993 Range 249-836
Estradiol = 14.8 Range 7.6-42.6
SHBG = 26.0 Range 14.5-48.4

3/24/12 Started talking Testorone 60mg 2X per week and HCG 200IU day before the T Shot
4/25./12 About the time i started taking the Letro 2X per week to see if i could reduce fat around nipple area

6/15/12 Bloodwork
Testosterone Serum = 747 Range 249-836
Estradiol = 5.1Range 7.6-42.6
SHBG = 30.1 Range 14.5-48.4
Was told to go back to letro once a week


I have noticed a little bit of the nipple area fat going away but its still there. I have attempted to take a pic but it is more predominant in person then the pic shows. I just had my BF checked and i am at 10.5%. I have paper thin skin everywhere except this area and my stomach. This is very embarrassing to me and i want it gone. I was thinking about going on a Low carb, med/high protein diet for about a month and try to cut my bf down to 5-6% to see if i could get rid of it that way. My goals is to gain weight and to eventually be around 220lbs. This stuff is so much on my mind it makes me not want to try and reach my goals and just to cut this fat out then once its gone get back to my weight goals. I took a full body shot to show my Bf.
Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions for me to get rid of this. Thanks for any help guys.

[kelkel]

Wow Tick. Almost to much info to comprehend. Did I miss it or is there an LH and FSH level in there somewhere. In otherwords, are you primary or secondary hypo? Any past aas or prohormone usage? Also I do not see free or bio T anywhere, only serum. Did the doc not order it? He can't just be using serum I hope.

Letro can be used to combat gyno and you can search up threads in the aas forum on just that approach btw. Letro nukes your E as you can see by your current level, which is not safe long term. When it comes to AI's, why is your doc not using Adex out of curiousity? Nolvadex (a SERM) can also help as long as it's not fibrous already. Read this: http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/96/1/15.full

I would suggest getting stable on a protocol and get BW to include free T, Bio T, DHT, Vit D, DHEA. More BW is in the stickies but this is a start. It would be great if you can search up old BW that includes LH/FSH pre-TRT if you have it which is critically important IMO. Possibly switch to injecting every 3.5 days @ half the dose for less of a spike in your E level and consider adex in lieu of Letro. You can, although it's not normally done, include Nolva along with the adex for a period of time to see if it helps. It may slightly reduce the effects of the adex but the benefits may be worth a try.

You also may want to consider searching up a good gyno surgeon and schedule a consult if everything you try fails to meet your satisfaction. Might be worth it for your peace of mind. A lot of insurance covers it btw.

Good luck! More will chime in!

[HRTstudent]

I'm really not sure you have gyno.... Maybe there is some chest fat there but really from the picture everything looks proportional. Overall, it just doesn't look like you are storing any more fat in your chest/stomach than anywhere else... you look normal.

Im a bit curious as to why you went on HRT in the first place. A total T of 457 is certainly not a cause for low T symptoms in most people.

The whole situation is rather confusing and I am far more interested with why you and your doctors ever decided on HRT than the gyno and estradiol issue.

As far as the estradiol goes, it was pretty much perfectly fine before you started on testosterone shots, but that obviously jacked it up quite a bit. When you had your estradiol tested during clomid therapy, we have to assume that that test was likey to read artificially high because clomid can interfere with that (although I'm not certain it effects the estradiol sensitive tests). Since starting the letrozole though, I feel you have brought your estradiol too low and I think you should ease up on it and get into a healthier range to support your overall health.

[bass]

^^^^ well said HRT! exactly my questions too regarding why start TRT! i also agree with HRT regarding the gyno issue. a little muscle gain in the chest area will easily take care of what looks like a lose skin/fat.

[kelkel]

Interesting assessment HRT. It's why I wanted to see pre-trt lh/fsh. See if there's more than what we're being shown as it is all over the place. If his free is in the tank and what his doc's thought process here? Totally agree on E too low. Been there. Eventually it won't be fun. Possibly lose the letro for a while and jump on nolva to allow a rise in levels and retest in a month.

[fit2bOld]

Thyroid could be part of the problem
TSH, T4 & Reverse T3 although in range are on the bottom of the range.

Really need to look at all the aspects not just Test and estrogen

Wish my normal test level was 457,

[JAMIE07652]

Like kel said ... That was a lot to digest !

[Mr Tick]

Thanks for the help guys


@KelKel
No FSH or LH was ever taken. I am secondary tho because the HCG did allow my body to produce the T on its own.
No AAS or Pro Hormone use ever.
My Doc jumped right to Letro. Never considered Adex. I am now injecting 60Mg 2X a week.

@HRT
I never had any fat in my chest like this before which is why i was thinking mild gyno.
I was having lots of symptoms of low T. No libido, just a Blah Mood, ED issues, Low energy, sleepy during the day,never morning wood.
Since beginning on T all of these issues are gone.
On my 2/24 Blood work it was 14.8. Is this considered to be to low?

@Bass
Thats what i was thinking bass and have been trying to work chest more. But i dont know how it could be lose skin. I was never over 160 my entire life.


I never got a free T test done. I asked and got some Cookie cutter formula to calculate it. I had to ask for a prolactin and LGF-1 test. There is several things from my first blood work.

This is my first blood work

[Bill_boy2005]

You might want to give blood soon. Your hematocrit is creeping up and your iron is high also. If you're taking a multivitamin with iron, stop it.