Clomid and HCG instead of TRT

**Facecrash** · 07-18-2012, 10:04 AM

33
5'9
172 lbs, very low bf
I've done 5 cycles, but not in 3 years.

Got my bloodwork:

T3, Total: 114 Range 84-172
TSH, 1.57 Range .40 - 4.00
Free T4 1.2 Range .8 - 1.8
Test total 191 Range 280 - 1593

I am looking to have kids and would rather not be on TRT. My doc prescribed me Clomid 25mg for 6 weeks and HCG every month for life. He claims the Clomid will get me started again and HCG will keep me fertile and producing test. After 6 weeks I can stop the Clomid but I'll continue the HCG monthly for life. Can this raise my test 300 points?

Any feedback would be great. thanks

**GotNoBlueMilk** · 07-18-2012, 01:25 PM

This makes little sense. Clomid to restart Test production works for some, but 6 weeks is on the low side for length. Also, Clomid kills libedo in many.

HCG is not something anyone takes monthly (I assume by this you mean once a month). We take it 2x/week, 3x/week or EOD. Doing it once a month is pretty worthless.

To determine if HCG will help with test levels you need to know if you are primary or secondary. Without LH levels in your blood you can't possibly know.

Anyway, give the clomid thing a shot if you want to try that first. Research HCG and ask your doc exactly what he means by monthly. If it is once a month then he needs to learn about HCG. Find out your baseline LH levels to know if HCG is even a possible aid for your low T.

And of course the ultimate question: Are you able to have kids now? If not, trying to preserve something that doesn't exist is worthless. With low T levels there is the distinct possibility you are not fertile.

HCG EOD will preserve the ability to have kids, and in many people it works for that even when doing Test injections.

**Facecrash** · 07-18-2012, 02:06 PM

Thanks for the info. Let me correct myself on a couple of things. the HCG will be taken 2x/week. By monthly, I meant I will be taking this every month 2x/week forever, or at least until I'm done having kids.

a couple of things I left out on my blood results:

FSH 7.2 Range .7-11.1
Estriadol <20
IGF 1 159

I dont see any LH on the report. thanks again

**GotNoBlueMilk** · 07-19-2012, 10:00 AM

Estriadol < 20 tells me your doc did not give you the sensative test. He needs to give the sensative test to men. 19 is good for men, 4 is not! So you want to know that value, not just if it is high. Low E2 causes issues as well. Erectile issues in some men, as well as having health concerns for lipids and bone health.

**Vettester** · 07-19-2012, 10:31 AM

Your FSH level is fine. It would be nice to see the LH lab just to see if the two are of similar value. Usually they are, meaning if your FSH value is 7.2, then in most cases the LH is somewhere in the same vicinity (5's, 6's, 7's), but the lab needs to be taken to know for sure.

Is this the assay result after administering Clomid, or is it your baseline lab before starting? If it's baseline, then your diagnosis might be leaning more towards primary instead of secondary, but again a baseline LH lab will help resolve some of this.

**HRTstudent** · 07-19-2012, 12:48 PM

One thng your doc was definitely spot on about was not starting testosterone if youre trying to conceive in the near future.

You may want to consider doing this protocol after you get a sperm count done. Also, what symptoms do you have, if any?

You could always go on TRT after you have the kids you want, and that would certainly be the most efficient way to get your testosterone up.

**Facecrash** · 07-19-2012, 02:37 PM

Those are the baseline results. I actually took my first pill of clomid and my first HCG shot today. Here is what I'm doing

days 1-30 Clomid 25mg ED (no pun intended)
days 1-30 HCG 1000iu E3D

We are actually trying to conceive right now. In fact my wife will be taking a pregnancy test tomorrow. My doc was surprised I was able to actually perform with the low test but for some reason that has been no problem for me.

Symptoms
- I'm lethargic most of the time. I really have to try hard to get myself into a peak state. I work on mindset a lot.
- I've lost significant muscle. This is also due to rotator cuff and labrem surgery I had in December, but the loss has been over the last 3 years
- decreased stamina
- Decreased sex drive (I can perform and get excited if I "try" but I'm not as driven as I always was)

Questions
- Should I just run this program for 30 days and then get bloodwork done again?
- If it is primary hypogonadism, will this treatment restart me?
- Is it possible for me to get to a decent level where I would be able to discontinue the HCG and be drug free?
- Is it worth it to run tribulus?

Thanks again

**Vettester** · 07-19-2012, 04:04 PM

This will be kind of quick as I am on my phone ... Clomid is a compound used to stimulate LH/FSH levels when the HPTA is suppressed! Your FSH is more than adequate. Why then would the doctor prescribe Clonid?

**GotNoBlueMilk** · 07-20-2012, 06:04 AM

I would still like to see the LH levels since they are more important to Test production than FSH. Vett is steering you in the correct direction for your research and questions for your doc, given the info available. If your LH levels match your FSH levels clomid will not help you one bit to increase Test levels. And, HCG won't boost your Test levels either, if LH is in alignment with your FSH level.

Based on the limited info, it sounds like your lydig cells in your testicles just don't respond to the signals to produce more Test. When that happens, it's HRT time with Test and not other compounds. If your LH is in the basement, clomid and HCG would help.

**Facecrash** · 07-20-2012, 06:22 AM

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I have researched and you are correct. I don't know why my doc put me on Clomid/HCG . Maybe he assumed my LH levels are low?

I think the only way to know is to go have my LH levels tested. I will set that up today. In the meantime, is it possible that the clomid and HCG can make me more fertile with the test I DO have working for me?

thanks again

**Facecrash** · 07-23-2012, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Facecrash

In the meantime, is it possible that the clomid and HCG can make me more fertile with the test I DO have working for me?

thanks again

Any feedback on this above? thanks

**HRTstudent** · 07-23-2012, 08:50 PM

It probably will help...

Clomid and HCG are two of the most prominent fertility drugs in men. For a short term trial, not only would I do it, but I would feel comfortable if my doc wanted to do it.

It might put your e2 at a new high though! Keep an eye on that.

**Facecrash** · 07-24-2012, 06:10 AM

Ok thanks. Ill keep on it and report my results. Im running it for 30me days. When is the best time to have new bloodwork done?

Its been 5 days and already I feel the sides. Sluggish and all I want to do is sleep. Ill power through it though.

**HRTstudent** · 07-24-2012, 12:17 PM

If your priority is to have kids then I would be getting a sperm analysis done. Personally, that would mean more to me rather than what some of my blood labs had to say. Regardless, blood should be fairly stable at the 4 week mark, but you could probably do it at 3 weeks in as well. I have no idea how long it takes for the sperm production side of things.